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Old February 27, 2018, 09:29 PM   #1
Jackpro555
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New hand guns owner!

Hey mate,

Have a nice day to all. I need your help for one of my issue. Though I asked somewhere for my issue but didn't get reply. I need to keep my gun in safe and secure mode. So looking for a locker where I can keep all of my hand guns. What do you usually do keep you all guns in black market or simply buy a locker for them?

Will wait for your further reply. lol
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Old March 1, 2018, 05:33 PM   #2
rpseraph
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Ummm... I think you're asking how to securely store handguns. I am going to ask a few follow-up questions that will help all of us to provide some better advice!

- How many handguns?
- Do you plan to have any shotguns or rifles in the future?
- Do you need the gun to be accessed quickly for home defense?
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Old March 1, 2018, 07:15 PM   #3
KLCane
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Are you trying to keep them away from children in your home?
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Old March 1, 2018, 09:12 PM   #4
Jackpro555
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Thanks for your reply mate. Let me explain about my all guns. Yes, I have 2 shotguns and a rifle at my house. I'm worry because i have 2 kids they are about 4-8 years and very fastidious. They keep me busy all the time and try to touch my personal things. So right now I'm thinking to buy a locker until they understand about their safety. Although I read some blogs about best gun safe. So for their safety, right now a locker would suit me best and keep my all guns and rifle save and secure.
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Old March 1, 2018, 11:00 PM   #5
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Plenty of metal lockers available that might suit your needs at sporting goods stores, hardware stores, industrial supplies, even WalMart.

BTW, I confess I'm not familiar with "black market" gun storage. Could you enlighten me on the meaning of that term? Thx.
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Old March 2, 2018, 08:50 AM   #6
Jackpro555
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Yeah, I will try for that you suggested. Thanks!
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Old March 2, 2018, 10:12 AM   #7
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I first started with a cheap gun locker , then went with a gun safe that I built into the wall , brand name is Stack On . I have 6 handguns 2 rifles with plenty room . 4'high 2'wide 2' deep. My children are grown an have their own ,they have guns that are also locked in a safe. Now that it's my wife an I , one handgun is out until someone comes to visit. I guessing "black market" is a brand name.

Hope I helped in some way.
Chris
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Old March 2, 2018, 03:03 PM   #8
Aguila Blanca
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Doesn't California have a list of approved storage containers, and don't firearms have to be stored in an approved container if there are children in the house?

I'm asking, not stating -- I am not a California resident. But I would not rush out to buy a "locker," because I don't think it will satisfy the legal minimum requirement.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/tips
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Old March 2, 2018, 03:37 PM   #9
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A gun safe that has room for a few more than you own now would be the best solution. A metal locker, if legal where you are, might get you by for securing your firearms from children, as long as you secure the key adequately. With the same caveats, one or more locking cases would perform the function as well.
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Old March 2, 2018, 07:24 PM   #10
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The OP is in California, and he has young children in the house. He must store his firearms in accordance with California Penal Code, § § 25100 et. seq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca. Pen. Code 25100, 25105
Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370] ( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370] ( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
DIVISION 4. STORAGE OF FIREARMS [25000 - 25225] ( Division 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 2. Criminal Storage of Firearm [25100 - 25140] ( Chapter 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

25100.


(a) Except as provided in Section 25105, a person commits the crime of “criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree” if all of the following conditions are satisfied:

(1) The person keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under the person’s custody or control.

(2) The person knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child’s parent or legal guardian, or that a person prohibited from possessing a firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal law is likely to gain access to the firearm.

(3) The child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or great bodily injury to the child or any other person, or the person prohibited from possessing a firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal law obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or any other person.

(b) Except as provided in Section 25105, a person commits the crime of “criminal storage of a firearm in the second degree” if all of the following conditions are satisfied:

(1) The person keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under the person’s custody or control.

(2) The person knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child’s parent or legal guardian, or that a person prohibited from possessing a firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal law is likely to gain access to the firearm.

(3) The child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury, other than great bodily injury, to the child or any other person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in violation of Section 417, or the person prohibited from possessing a firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal law obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury, other than great bodily injury, to himself or herself or any other person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in violation of Section 417.

(c) Except as provided in Section 25105, a person commits the crime of “criminal storage of a firearm in the third degree” if the person keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under the person’s custody or control and negligently stores or leaves a loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child’s parent or legal guardian, unless reasonable action is taken by the person to secure the firearm against access by the child.

(Amended by Stats. 2013, Ch. 758, Sec. 1.5. (SB 363) Effective January 1, 2014.)


25105.

Section 25100 does not apply whenever any of the following occurs:

(a) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry to any premises by any person.

(b) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.

(c) The firearm is carried on the person or within close enough proximity thereto that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried on the person.

(d) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable.

(e) The person is a peace officer or a member of the Armed Forces or the National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the person’s duties.

(f) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person.

(g) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on premises that are under the person’s custody or control has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises.

(Amended by Stats. 2011, Ch. 285, Sec. 26. (AB 1402) Effective January 1, 2012.)
The law does not appear to require a safe (contrary to what I previously believed). That said, the California DOJ promulgates a description of approved gun storage containers:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe
[EDIT TO ADD: A different statute DOES require either an "approved" gun safe/container, or trigger lock type device. See post #14, below.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal. DOJ criteria

An acceptable gun safe is either one the following:

a. A gun safe that meets all of the following standards:
1. Shall be able to fully contain firearms and provide for their secure storage.

2. Shall have a locking system consisting of at minimum a mechanical or electronic combination lock. The mechanical or electronic combination lock utilized by the safe shall have at least 10,000 possible combinations consisting of a minimum three numbers, letters, or symbols. The lock shall be protected by a case hardened (Rc 60+) drill resistant steel plate, or drill resistant material of equivalent strength.

3. Boltwork shall consist of a minimum of three steel locking bolts of at least 1/2-inch thickness that intrude from the door of the safe into the body of the safe or from the body of the safe into the door of the safe, which are operated by a separate handle and secured by the lock.

4. A gun safe shall be capable of repeated use. The exterior walls shall be constructed of a minimum 12-gauge thick steel for a single walled safe, or the sum of the steel walls shall add up to at least 0.100 inches for safes with two walls. Doors shall be constructed of a minimum one layer of 7-gauge steel plate reinforced construction or at least two layers of a minimum 12-gauge steel compound construction.

5. Door hinges shall be protected to prevent the removal of the door. Protective features include, but are not limited to: hinges not exposed to the outside, interlocking door designs, dead bars, jeweler's lugs and active or inactive locking bolts.
b. A gun safe that is able to fully contain firearms and provide for their secure storage, and is certified to/listed as meeting Underwriters Laboratories Residential Security Container rating standards by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL).

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 4, 2018 at 04:40 PM. Reason: Correction of misinformation
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Old March 3, 2018, 03:22 PM   #11
TailGator
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Yep, AB, if that last part of your post doesn't describe a safe, it is a darn sturdy box! Locked cases and such are not going to fulfill that criteria, and neither, ironically, are the kind of gun locks that gun control advocates pushed as mandatory accessories.

If I read it correctly, though, 25100 does not designate it a crime until a child accesses the firearm and does some mischief. It might then be than a lockup that does not meet specs but is still practically effective still keeps one out of legal jeopardy. Meeting the specs keeps you out of trouble in the event that a kid overcomes the security.

I'm not a California resident, and definitely not a legal professional, though, so maybe I am reading it wrong.
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Old March 3, 2018, 08:32 PM   #12
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGator
If I read it correctly, though, 25100 does not designate it a crime until a child accesses the firearm and does some mischief. It might then be than a lockup that does not meet specs but is still practically effective still keeps one out of legal jeopardy. Meeting the specs keeps you out of trouble in the event that a kid overcomes the security.
I am not a lawyer, but it does appear to read that way. And that's different from my state, which simply requires that firearms be locked up (either in some sort of container -- no specifications provided) or with individual gun locks if there are children under the age of 16 in the house. That said, if I had kids under 16, I wouldn't take the chance. A number of years ago, the child of a police officer in the town next to mine somehow got access to his father's duty weapon, was playing with it, and accidentally shot and killed a playmate.

Remember Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong."
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Old March 4, 2018, 01:24 PM   #13
T. O'Heir
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"...looking for a locker..." There are hordes of 'em. Which one depends on how much space you have and your budget. You might find a surplus school locker in a used office furniture shop that is big enough for the long guns and has a shelf for the hand guns. Otherwise any firearm storage container will do. Some will fit nicely in a closet.
"...The law does not appear to require a safe..." Usually no legal definition of what is considered to be a 'safe' either. Cal. DOJ's criteria describes a regular "gun safe" like those made by Stack-on and sold by Cabela's, etc.
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Old March 4, 2018, 04:35 PM   #14
Aguila Blanca
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This discussion on the CalGuns forum may offer further insight: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=119219

The CalGuns discussion cites the California statute that requires an "approved" safety device. This means that the OP CANNOT just go to an office surplus place and buy a locker. Any device must be on the state's list of approved devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA statute
12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a
licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a
dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or
be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the
Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices
and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference
to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the
physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on
the roster for use with the device.

(d) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from
subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the
standards set forth in Section 12088.2. Gun safes shall not be
required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards without
appearing on the Department of Justice roster.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for
purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of
the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the firearms
dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of
purchase with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from
subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety
device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or
transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety
device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to
the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and
the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to
(3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with
the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 4, 2018 at 04:41 PM.
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Old March 5, 2018, 02:51 PM   #15
hdwhit
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Quote:
Jackpro555 asked:
What do you usually do keep you all guns in black market or simply buy a locker for them?
Since my objective at the family farm is to keep children, prohibited persons, and casual thieves away from my guns, I have a Stack-on storage container that I got from Wal-Mart for about $100.

At home, I want the storage container to resist break-in long enough to give the police time to respond to the burglar alarm, so years ago I bought a safe from Sears that was one step down from Sears Best. So far, it has done exactly what I bought it to do.
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Old March 5, 2018, 05:18 PM   #16
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I had a stack on 10 gun safe for 4 years and it was a pretty good combination safe for about 5 long guns and some pistols. Then I upgraded to a Stack On 36 gun safe available at Sams club for $600. Has an electronic lock, waterproof and has some sort of fire resistance. It might not fit your situation but it's heavy and wont walk away. If I had to I would buy a 10 gun again but I would bolt it down everywhere I could because at 300 pounds it could still be dragged across the floor. Even faster with a dolly.
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