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June 3, 2008, 04:17 PM | #76 | |||
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June 3, 2008, 04:29 PM | #77 | ||||||
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June 3, 2008, 04:45 PM | #78 | |
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This was recommended by a guy at the gunstore. Said he's used it once on a guy with a knife on Bart, and, his mom on a purse snatcher. Worked great both times, and, did not get anyone else. Haven't shot the stuff myself, but, as with CCW, don't really expect to every have to use it. Use it for jogging, for dogs or maybe fierce cats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4i3j...eature=related I should use it. I'm really more concerned with a dog, or wild basketball player late at night then anything else. YOu might think about a bear quality spray, for walking with a dog... I was thinking about taking my cat for a walk, and, pepper spray would be with me, and probably a steel baton. Come to think of it, that probably wouldn't be a bad idea for such walks as well...http://www.tbotech.com/telescopicbaton.htm I've got one sort of like it from Martial arts, and it's probably illegal. http://www.tbotech.com/dogchaser.htm http://www.tbotech.com/bearspray.htm Given the situation described, a blast of this stuff would probably do the trick, and, if the guy runs to his car, and you see a gun, you can hit him from distance with it. |
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June 3, 2008, 06:02 PM | #79 |
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Your most important weapon
In this day and age your first line of defense is speed dial 911 on your cell phone. Get the operator on the line and barring a bad connection, service failure or a marginal operator start getting the situation recorded. If you don`t have a cell phone by virtue of too poor or your technically challenged, then your taking a serious chance just going to the corner market (if they have them anymore). Most have cameras in case of an accident or just to get a plate number.
I stopped at a circle K out here in AZ. A scruffy woman walked up to me and said her car was broke so she and her really scruffy boyfriend needed a ride just down the road. As she talked, her partner was circling around my truck behind me. I grabbed my phone and called 911 and made it clear that I was calling 911. I had my concealed carry .44 on my belt and my hand on it as I slowly turned to keep an eye on both of them. They listened to me for a few seconds, jumped in the BROKE car and took off. I had the plate number and announced it to the operator. I received a call from the Sheriff and hour later. They had been stopped and detained on outstandings. I didn`t follow up, but I didn`t have to shoot or bruise myself pounding on anyone. John "little like sand" Last edited by littlelikesand; June 3, 2008 at 07:47 PM. |
June 3, 2008, 06:18 PM | #80 |
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A very similar situation is already under discussion here: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=296905
My brain is tired at the moment, but if memory serves correctly, this current thread has more responses to NOT use deadly force, and in the above linked thread, there are more response in favor of using deadly force. I'll check back on it later, maybe tomorrow and see if thats right, if so, what are the differences?
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June 4, 2008, 11:31 AM | #81 | |||||||
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I certainly hope you can fight with the young bucks David. With your thinking pattern in this scenario you are going to need to. BTW Why would you retreat if you didn't consider this guy a threat? He's just coming to apologize right? Quote:
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June 6, 2008, 01:55 PM | #82 |
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David Armstrong
Well then . . . when can we draw what we carry?
I am guessing that you are in law enforcement so you probably have a good idea what you are talking about. However, your are making it sound like we can only draw after we are being beaten down. Is that what you are saying?? In your opinion when can we actually draw? Please post a variation of my initial scenario that will include a point when you feel drawing your CCW is a valid option. I would like to discuss it here on this thread. Socrates: Pepper spray gel . . . never heard of it. Looks like really good stuff though. Seems to me like a face full of sticky gel might really do a number on the BG.
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June 10, 2008, 12:58 AM | #83 |
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You'll love this: Kali limits the size of the container you can carry.
So, you want bear spray in the car for gang bangers in LA? You breaking the law...:barf: |
June 10, 2008, 11:44 PM | #84 | |
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June 11, 2008, 11:22 AM | #85 |
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"Are you suggesting that you don't make judgments based on appearance? How do you identify potential threats?
No I don't find this discomforting but rather enlightening. I believe that Aqeous correctly identified a [color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color][color=#FF0000]â–ˆ[/color] with just a glance. This identification gave him an edge in alertness IMO. I'm looking for every edge possible in keeping myself and family safe. Political correctness has no place in my self defense. A gang banger type trumps a well dressed clean cut man in my potential threat spectrum. Besides mom always said that you only get one chance to make a first impression. Don't want folks to assume you are a gang banger then don't dress like one." Threegun, I am suggesting exactly that. I do not make judgements based on apperance because I am a better person than that; I don't judge books by their covers. Some guy was wearing a baggy shirt or a hoodie, he must be a criminal right? Are you so out of touch that you don't realize young people's styles today? I wear hoodies all the time and I'm certainly not an unruly type that you *KNOW* has committed crimes beforehand therefore should be considered a threat. A threat is someone that threatens you, not that looks different. What your mom says should be of no concern to us, because other moms say different things and nobody's mom is neccesarily 'right'. There are more well dressed criminals than poorly dressed ones. Stop using the term 'gang banger' to refer to anyone that isn't behind on the times. |
June 11, 2008, 12:52 PM | #86 |
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delete
Delete
Last edited by gvf; June 12, 2008 at 11:35 AM. Reason: spelling |
June 13, 2008, 11:46 AM | #87 | |||
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Interesting, but in California the law seems to me to suggest that a beatdown is to be endured in lieu of drawing a weapon. Quote:
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June 18, 2008, 02:25 AM | #88 |
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Hook686:
It's traditional, both in forums and law, to give a link, or cite where the quote you are using came from. Please link, or cite the statute this came from... |
June 19, 2008, 08:33 AM | #89 | ||
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King,
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BTW I can and have picked out trouble makers simply by looks. When someone looks like a thug, dresses like a thug, acts (body language) like a thug, guess what they usually are a thug. I would pay extra attention to a man wearing a motorcycle helmet in a bank or a man poking around my neighborhood at night dressed in black both solely on appearance. In public I regularly scan the area noting anything I perceive as potential threats. I don't treat these folks any differently other than paying them extra attention. You can bet though that the way you dress alone will get you extra attention in stores by security, by police on the beat, and by savvy CWP holders on the street. You might not like it but it goes on everyday. It is natural. Quote:
*Most of the people I sell guns to who have been robbed or attacked in the past knew they were in trouble before it happened based much on looks. There stories indicate that they sensed the trouble about to come from a distance. I can't remember one saying that the criminal was well dressed or homely looking. |
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June 19, 2008, 10:27 AM | #90 | |
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This Discussion is Pointless
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SD is for real - imminent -NOW -- about-to-die - once a in many life-times event, that legally has nothing to do with gun law or guns. It's for everyone. And CCW is merely a waiver against the usual penalty for carrying a gun, and also does not deal with shooting people. And it is not for anyone based on anything else - no other situation, no other internal bias, fear, opinion, 2nd Amendment stance, hatred of "scum", fear, stance on crime or anything else. Lastly, violent crime - as it has since the 19th century - continues to lower markedly. And is now at historic low levels. New York, as an example, is the safest largest city in the country, and out of all locales with populations of over 100,000, lies near the bottom in terms of violent crime. So someone mutters tough-talk. So what. Were we all to shoot each other based on that, half of us would be dead. The half-victim/half-cowboy attitudes some people have, has "0" to do with Self-Defense - and makes mistakes based on predispositions a real risk since you carry a gun around with you. Last edited by gvf; June 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM. |
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June 24, 2008, 09:11 PM | #91 | |
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2008-06-18 12:25 AM
Socrates wrote: Quote:
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf p 30-31
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Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides. |
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June 24, 2008, 10:49 PM | #92 |
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sorry,i dont come arround this forum too much and i didnt read every post...
but pepper spray is a bad idea imo.ive seen it used on half a dozen or so occasions. worked out well once or twice... the other times it either failed to stop the threat and/or affected the person spraying it as much or more than the person being sprayed. the latter actually happened to me just testing a bottle,even after testing the wind to make sure it was at my back.i dont know if the wind changed or i misjudged or what...but that wasnt even under stress,so no thank you. if i were to carry a non-lethal...it wouldnt be any type of spray... |
June 25, 2008, 12:43 AM | #93 | |
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OK:
Advantage of gel spray is it doesn't come back at you. "Interesting, but in California the law seems to me to suggest that a beatdown is to be endured in lieu of drawing a weapon." Thanks for the cite. Locklear is the AG, and, as such has only power over the Assistant AG's, who are used for trying cases in Supreme Court cases, in Kali. His interpretation of Kali law is much like what you get in law school, an overview of the law. However, you have to go to case law that most closely represents your case to get an idea of what that phrase means: Quote:
would have been very difficult to anyone to try him, much less convict him. Law is determined by specific cases, and, the back chair, after the fact quarterbacking of first a police officer, and his crew, then the D.A. and their rebooking D.A., then the D.A. Once filed, and, it's usually got to be real strong for a D.A. to file, or, very high profile, since the D.A. is an elected official, then a judge has to determine if the case has sufficient content to take to trial, according to the laws of California. If he finds it's triable, then a jury or judge trial is picked by the Defense, and, you proceed to trial. Depending on the prior cases that most closely resemble yours, that have gone to the appellate divisions, and the Kali Supreme Court, and, the U.S. Supreme Court if the Kali Supreme Court's decision was appealed to a Federal level, only on an issue based in the Constitution. In other words, Bill Locklears' opinion is a restatement of the Kali Supreme Courts' trial decisions on cases in self-defense. I would suggest a look at the actual case law on the subject.. That said, Locklears' position is elected, and therefore dictates that his public statements serve the public interest, which is non-violence. Locklear's writing on the Kali self-defense law will only become relevant if it's an accurate reporting of a summary of Kali case law on the subject, and, just as with any other case in law, your circumstances will make the result change. General commentaries on law are nice guidelines, but, you need case law to get a really good idea on where you stand. Dr. S J.D. |
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June 25, 2008, 01:49 PM | #94 | |||||
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June 25, 2008, 02:00 PM | #95 | |||||
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June 25, 2008, 08:21 PM | #96 |
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David as usual your word play has not only myself but a few others feeling that you were suggesting that one would have to wait until punches were thrown to act.
You feel the need to flee in this scenario as do I. The difference is I feel that the threat which caused you to flee is still the same threat if you didn't flee. You indicated that the BG that just threatened you and was now coming at you was not a threat. Yet you would retreat from him. Kinda talking out of both sides here. The fact is he did make a threat to harm you and was coming at you (completely out of his way). If one was not able to flee, to make a better defense as you put it, the threat remains the same. |
June 26, 2008, 04:34 AM | #97 |
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Fight like a cornered cat. Do everything you can to get away, then tear the holy heck out of him if he corners you, or won't let you get away.
David, which is your favorite pepper spray, and why? I like the gel because sometimes we take BART, or are in confined areas with lots of people around. Also, when we walk the cat, it's usually windy. Any help here would be good. Thank you. |
June 27, 2008, 05:43 PM | #98 | ||||
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June 27, 2008, 05:47 PM | #99 | |
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July 9, 2008, 08:52 PM | #100 | |
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David,
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