My 40 S&W gave my 357 SIG a butt kicking today

kidcoltoutlaw · February 16, 2006, 08:43 PM

I love the 357 SIG. I have eight guns in that caliber. I got some bad news for the 357 SIg today. I tried the Nosler 135 JHP and Longshot powder. The chronograph is a Model 35P and it does not lie. This blew me away:

P229 40 S&W
Fed. Cases
Fed pr.
15 shots
hi 1506
lo 1453
avg 1482
sd 19
es 53
energy 658
Temp 65

Even the P239 hit 1444 with a 135 JHP. That is faster than either gun will push a 125 in the 357 SIG.
I have a 5 inch Bar-Sto for a P229 and it hit 1567 with the 135 JHP for an avg of 10 shots.

It just blows me away I tell you. Longshot powder does it without real high pressure on top of all that.

Long shot gave what Hodgdon said it would to and sometimes more. I might try it in the 357 SIG. The velocity is listed as more with the 40 that is is for the 357 SIG. I though B.S to boy was I wrong.

Get you bullets from www.sportsworldtulsa.com they have the best price of any. Rainier works great. I have pushed them to 1535 in a 5 inch 357 Bar-Sto barrel.

Thanks,Keith

HSMITH · February 16, 2006, 10:15 PM

Been telling you that for a LONG time now LOL

Your ES and SD is higher than mine was from a G22, and average velocity is about 40 FPS slower. Try the EGW Undersize Die, the extra case tension seems to help with Longshot.

I never got any pressure signs at all, and less case expansion than with several factory loads. I don't know what voodoo they put in Longshot but it seems a perfect match for 40 and light bullets when you want big speed.

In a 1911 style gun where you can load a little longer they get faster yet with no pressure signs.

jsflagstad · February 17, 2006, 08:25 AM

I am getting an average velocity of 1520 fps with a 140 grain bullet in my 40 S&W with VV 3N37. I am very happy with this powder. Accuracy is good as well. Bullets are treated hardcast lead. Leading is some but minimal.

JSF

kidcoltoutlaw · February 17, 2006, 07:25 PM

Been using it with the 180's but this is the first time I have used it with a 135.
The little sig p239 is a handcannon now.

HSMITH · February 17, 2006, 11:27 PM

The 155's get downright racey too. IN my experience the heavier the bullet the sooner the forgiveness leaves Longshot, if you are shooting 180's and pushing at all you have probably seen this though.

Big Yac · February 17, 2006, 11:47 PM

so where did you guys find the data for the 135gr bullets and Longshot powder for the 40? I've been looking and cant find any. Also, compared to a factory 155 or 180gr bullet, does the 135 gr with Longshot have more recoil and a louder muzzle blast? Recoil and loud reports dont bother me, I shoot a .454 Casull

HSMITH · February 18, 2006, 12:17 AM

BY, I have a Hodgdon manual with the data in it, actually two annuals and a pamphlet.

Recoil and blast are severe compared to 'normal' 40 ammo. Blast is like hot loaded 357 magnum, recoil depends on the gun. Putting the energy out of the pipe puts the energy in your hand, and they are very 'snappy' in addition to the plain addition of the KE.

WESHOOT2 · February 18, 2006, 08:33 AM

I couldn't get anywhere NEAR claims with Longshot; why we say "...in MY gun..."

kidcoltoutlaw · February 18, 2006, 07:37 PM

The Glock you shot yours in had a longer barrel. My P229 has a 3.9 barrel. I got 1567 from my P229 with the 5 inch bar sto barrel.

Recoil yes it is a hand cannon for a forty load.

With a 180 xtp/hp and 8 grains of longshot I get 1160 or there about with a 5 inch I get 1205,
Thanks, Keith

kidcoltoutlaw · February 20, 2006, 03:08 PM

What are you getting with a 155 and Longshot ?

kidcoltoutlaw · February 20, 2006, 03:50 PM

Try the EGW Undersize Die, the extra case tension seems to help with Longshot.

Do you think the EGW under size die will over work the brass ??

HSMITH · February 20, 2006, 08:14 PM

Kieth, about 1350 out of the 155 with an XTP.

I really don't care if the U-die overworks the brass. I only load these in once fired by me brass, and I don't load them again. 40 brass is nearly free so I don't worry about losing them.

I use the U-die on ALL of my 40 loads and don't have any trouble with the brass at all. Standard full pressure full power 180's go through my Glock sometimes 6 times with no problems, and I have taken some out to 10 loadings to see how they hold up with no problems. Most often though I shoot the brass 2 or 3 times and leave it lay, again 40 brass is so cheap that a lot of times I am just too lazy to pick it up.

kidcoltoutlaw · February 20, 2006, 11:37 PM

Where is a good place to get once fired brass for the forty,

Thanks,Keith

HSMITH · February 20, 2006, 11:53 PM

Brassman or Scharch should be able to help you out.

kidcoltoutlaw · February 22, 2006, 05:38 PM

In the P229 factory barrel. 10 shot groups at 25 yards were 2.5 inches
I just turned 47 and I can still shoot a group how about that. I never tuned this load to the gun just loaded it for power and then tried it for accuracy,

Thanks,Keith

HSMITH · February 23, 2006, 12:08 AM

Kieth, that is about what I got out of my G22. Mine were 3"ish with the 135's. a little under but not enough to really matter. That gun won't do a whole lot better than that with the loading process I was using then. I have some new dies and some new ways of doing things, I am tempted to look at the hotrod loads again but doubt I will have time or a good reason.

Ruger45LC · February 23, 2006, 07:05 PM

I've tried Longshot too, with 135, 155, 165 and 180 gr. bullets. Great powder, works very well with the .40, glad to hear you guys are getting good results also!

kidcoltoutlaw · February 23, 2006, 07:37 PM

I had tried it with the 180's and it was fast 1170 or there about. That is with fed primers. With any other or a mag primer it was slower. You might say it gave me an education.

kidcoltoutlaw · February 23, 2006, 08:18 PM

Does your Glock 40 put out brass that looks like it has a beer belly ?

HSMITH · February 24, 2006, 08:52 AM

Kieth, about like WWB 180's, a little less 'belly' than Fiocchi 180 FMJ.

EVERY shell has a belly somewhat when shot in a Glock, the shape of the chamber is such that it isn't going to do anything else if pressure is sufficient to seal the case.

Close inspection shows the belly, but it isn't cause for concern. Pressures appear to be about equal to WWB 180 FMJ using case measurements as indicators.

kidcoltoutlaw · February 24, 2006, 01:37 PM

I shoot a lot of once fired brass in 40 and I know it must come from Glocks. I can not look at it and tell it was shot from a Glock so the pressure must be on the low or safe side anyway. I shoot it in a SIG or a H&K. Thanks for showing me the light . With the Longshot powder. Some say the IMR 800X is even better. I have not ried it yet but I will soon at least when I start shooting my S&W 610,

Thanks,Keith

HSMITH · February 24, 2006, 06:06 PM

800X is a lot better in 10. You end up with a full case before you get the velocity with most 40 loads. 800X will make a 10 SIZZLE for sure!!! Clark had some real screamers with 800X in small cases but if I remember right he was double compressing to get enough in the cases LOL.

You will KNOW Glock cases instantly by looking at the primer, Glock brass has a rectangular mark and a 'wipe' mark in that rectangle. Very distinctive primers. You probably feel a little more resistance in the size die too when running them.

February 16, 2006, 08:43 PM	#1
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	My 40 S&W gave my 357 SIG a butt kicking today I love the 357 SIG. I have eight guns in that caliber. I got some bad news for the 357 SIg today. I tried the Nosler 135 JHP and Longshot powder. The chronograph is a Model 35P and it does not lie. This blew me away: P229 40 S&W Fed. Cases Fed pr. 15 shots hi 1506 lo 1453 avg 1482 sd 19 es 53 energy 658 Temp 65 Even the P239 hit 1444 with a 135 JHP. That is faster than either gun will push a 125 in the 357 SIG. I have a 5 inch Bar-Sto for a P229 and it hit 1567 with the 135 JHP for an avg of 10 shots. It just blows me away I tell you. Longshot powder does it without real high pressure on top of all that. Long shot gave what Hodgdon said it would to and sometimes more. I might try it in the 357 SIG. The velocity is listed as more with the 40 that is is for the 357 SIG. I though B.S to boy was I wrong. Get you bullets from www.sportsworldtulsa.com they have the best price of any. Rainier works great. I have pushed them to 1535 in a 5 inch 357 Bar-Sto barrel. Thanks,Keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 17, 2006, 08:25 AM	#3
jsflagstad Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Up Nort Posts: 419	VV 3N37 has been "it" for me I am getting an average velocity of 1520 fps with a 140 grain bullet in my 40 S&W with VV 3N37. I am very happy with this powder. Accuracy is good as well. Bullets are treated hardcast lead. Leading is some but minimal. JSF

February 17, 2006, 07:25 PM	#4
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	longshot you got to love it Been using it with the 180's but this is the first time I have used it with a 135. The little sig p239 is a handcannon now. __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 17, 2006, 11:47 PM	#6
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	so where did you guys find the data for the 135gr bullets and Longshot powder for the 40? I've been looking and cant find any. Also, compared to a factory 155 or 180gr bullet, does the 135 gr with Longshot have more recoil and a louder muzzle blast? Recoil and loud reports dont bother me, I shoot a .454 Casull __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

February 18, 2006, 08:33 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"my gun your gun his gun" I couldn't get anywhere NEAR claims with Longshot; why we say "...in MY gun..." __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 16, 2006, 10:15 PM	#2
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Been telling you that for a LONG time now LOL Your ES and SD is higher than mine was from a G22, and average velocity is about 40 FPS slower. Try the EGW Undersize Die, the extra case tension seems to help with Longshot. I never got any pressure signs at all, and less case expansion than with several factory loads. I don't know what voodoo they put in Longshot but it seems a perfect match for 40 and light bullets when you want big speed. In a 1911 style gun where you can load a little longer they get faster yet with no pressure signs.

February 17, 2006, 11:27 PM	#5
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	The 155's get downright racey too. IN my experience the heavier the bullet the sooner the forgiveness leaves Longshot, if you are shooting 180's and pushing at all you have probably seen this though.

February 18, 2006, 12:17 AM	#7
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	BY, I have a Hodgdon manual with the data in it, actually two annuals and a pamphlet. Recoil and blast are severe compared to 'normal' 40 ammo. Blast is like hot loaded 357 magnum, recoil depends on the gun. Putting the energy out of the pipe puts the energy in your hand, and they are very 'snappy' in addition to the plain addition of the KE.

February 18, 2006, 07:37 PM	#9
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	Hsmith The Glock you shot yours in had a longer barrel. My P229 has a 3.9 barrel. I got 1567 from my P229 with the 5 inch bar sto barrel. Recoil yes it is a hand cannon for a forty load. With a 180 xtp/hp and 8 grains of longshot I get 1160 or there about with a 5 inch I get 1205, Thanks, Keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 20, 2006, 03:08 PM	#10
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	Hsmith What are you getting with a 155 and Longshot ? __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 20, 2006, 03:50 PM	#11
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	Hsmith Try the EGW Undersize Die, the extra case tension seems to help with Longshot. Do you think the EGW under size die will over work the brass ?? __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 20, 2006, 08:14 PM	#12
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Kieth, about 1350 out of the 155 with an XTP. I really don't care if the U-die overworks the brass. I only load these in once fired by me brass, and I don't load them again. 40 brass is nearly free so I don't worry about losing them. I use the U-die on ALL of my 40 loads and don't have any trouble with the brass at all. Standard full pressure full power 180's go through my Glock sometimes 6 times with no problems, and I have taken some out to 10 loadings to see how they hold up with no problems. Most often though I shoot the brass 2 or 3 times and leave it lay, again 40 brass is so cheap that a lot of times I am just too lazy to pick it up.

February 20, 2006, 11:37 PM	#13
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	40 S&W once fired brass Where is a good place to get once fired brass for the forty, Thanks,Keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 20, 2006, 11:53 PM	#14
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Brassman or Scharch should be able to help you out.

February 22, 2006, 05:38 PM	#15
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	I tried it for accuracy today In the P229 factory barrel. 10 shot groups at 25 yards were 2.5 inches I just turned 47 and I can still shoot a group how about that. I never tuned this load to the gun just loaded it for power and then tried it for accuracy, Thanks,Keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 23, 2006, 12:08 AM	#16
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Kieth, that is about what I got out of my G22. Mine were 3"ish with the 135's. a little under but not enough to really matter. That gun won't do a whole lot better than that with the loading process I was using then. I have some new dies and some new ways of doing things, I am tempted to look at the hotrod loads again but doubt I will have time or a good reason.

February 23, 2006, 07:05 PM	#17
Ruger45LC Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 768	I've tried Longshot too, with 135, 155, 165 and 180 gr. bullets. Great powder, works very well with the .40, glad to hear you guys are getting good results also!

February 23, 2006, 07:37 PM	#18
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	thanks I had tried it with the 180's and it was fast 1170 or there about. That is with fed primers. With any other or a mag primer it was slower. You might say it gave me an education. __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 23, 2006, 08:18 PM	#19
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	Hsmith Does your Glock 40 put out brass that looks like it has a beer belly ? __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 24, 2006, 08:52 AM	#20
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Kieth, about like WWB 180's, a little less 'belly' than Fiocchi 180 FMJ. EVERY shell has a belly somewhat when shot in a Glock, the shape of the chamber is such that it isn't going to do anything else if pressure is sufficient to seal the case. Close inspection shows the belly, but it isn't cause for concern. Pressures appear to be about equal to WWB 180 FMJ using case measurements as indicators.

February 24, 2006, 01:37 PM	#21
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	I was asking because I shoot a lot of once fired brass in 40 and I know it must come from Glocks. I can not look at it and tell it was shot from a Glock so the pressure must be on the low or safe side anyway. I shoot it in a SIG or a H&K. Thanks for showing me the light . With the Longshot powder. Some say the IMR 800X is even better. I have not ried it yet but I will soon at least when I start shooting my S&W 610, Thanks,Keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 24, 2006, 06:06 PM	#22
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	800X is a lot better in 10. You end up with a full case before you get the velocity with most 40 loads. 800X will make a 10 SIZZLE for sure!!! Clark had some real screamers with 800X in small cases but if I remember right he was double compressing to get enough in the cases LOL. You will KNOW Glock cases instantly by looking at the primer, Glock brass has a rectangular mark and a 'wipe' mark in that rectangle. Very distinctive primers. You probably feel a little more resistance in the size die too when running them.