Testing Rounds

bassfishindoc · December 13, 2010, 09:45 PM

I am spending my winter working on developing a load for Garand competition next year. I am not looking for a recipe, I took care of that with an earlier thread entitled Garand Competition Loads. I am now in the process of testing the loads and need some advice. When testing 30-06 ammo for accuracy, is 100 yard groupings a good prediction of 200 yard accuracy? Or should I test the rounds at 200 yards? The reason I ask is it is much easier to see the 100 yard target with my spotting scope (saving up to get a better one) and it is much quicker to change targets walking 100 yards as opposed to 200 yards, thus avoiding ******* off the other guys at the range for taking too long to change targets. Thanks for the advice!

Tim R · December 13, 2010, 10:05 PM

I would think a 100 would be fine. I tested mine at a 100 and worked fine out to 600.

4runnerman · December 13, 2010, 10:05 PM

I only shoot 223,but i can tell you 100 yards is not enough for any test. Your bullet at that distance does not have time to be off if it is going to be. The test for accuracy is distance. What im saying is at 100 yards the amount off your bullet is will not show up very well unless you are way off. In other words at 100 yards if you are say shooting .5 inch groups,that same load would be compounded at a greater distance. First you need to decide what kind of accuracy you are looking for. I seldom shoot less than 300 yards.
Also at great distances everything must come together. I had a situation this summer where i was shooting one hole at 100 yards,then when i went out to 300 yards i was shooting high and to the left.After reajusting scope i would come back to 100 yards and be off again.Finally dawned on me.I went and bought a scope level system and found out my scope was about 1/16th of a inch kiddy-wampas. Got everything set right and now im at 500 to 1000 yards.(not doing to good yet) Damn eggs are small at 500 yards.. So back to your question,You need to do the extra walking and get the targets out there farther. Another test you can do if you can't get that far out is get a big pc of cardboard 2 foot wide 4 foot high.Draw a line in middle from top to bottom the from side to sidee in middle. Place first shot at crosspoint of lines,then set scope for 300 yards or what ever you choose,shoot again,if your bullet stays on the vertical line and not off to left or right you might be doing good,Raise scope again and fire again and see if it still stays on vertical line. It's not a sure fire test,but gives you an idea of how things are going to go. Still not a substitute for actual distance shot though

kraigwy · December 14, 2010, 12:43 PM

In CMP GSM matches they use the NRA 200 yards target. Sometimes do to range limitations they use the 100 yard reduced 200 yard target.

Meaning, the scoring rings are the same size MOA wise as the 200 yard target.

If I was (and I do) to want to test rounds for a Vintage Military Rifle, I use the Reduced target at 100 yards. Except for the difference in elevation (about two clicks or MOA) they would be the same. So if you find a load for your gun that you can keep in the X-10 ring, chances are you can also keep them in the X-10 at 200 yards.

Most places that sell targets, sell the NRA 200 yard target reduced for 100 yards. Or if you want to print out your own you can use this site:

http://dotclue.org/targets/sr1-11x17-l.pdf

As a side note, this reduced target is the same target use in Carbine Matches which is fired at 100 yards.

kraigwy · December 14, 2010, 01:17 PM

The X-10 ring on the 200 yard reduced to 100 yards target the 10 ring is right at 3.3 inches in diameter. The X-Ring is 1.3 in in Dia.

So if you have a rifle capable of shooting 3 inches (MOA) you can clean the targets, the rest is up to your.

Don't get hung up on barrels when its the shooter.

An example, my DCM M1 barrel should be shot out. (I say DCM because I got it in the early 80s when CMP was DCM). I've shot the crap out of it. I've shot it in HP matches, and practice. I played with it when running sniper schools (we used the M1C/Ds), several times shooting it until the sap boiled out of the hand guard. And I have no ideal how many rounds were shot out of it before I got it.

It should be shot out. The throat erosion gage measures 8, gaging the muzzle tells me I should have 37% barrel life left. I don't clean the muzzle much.

Yesterday I took it out, took a careful tight prone position and shoot three 8 round groups. This "abused" rifle still shoots 2.5 inch groups.

So if I can't "clean" the targets in GSM matches, its me, These old work horses still shoot and shoot well.

Use either the reduced targets or the 200 yard targets. Just about any Garand with decent ammo is capable of cleaning the targets.

Tim R · December 14, 2010, 04:57 PM

4runnerman, Good thing my M-1 ammo didn't know it shouldn't have gone to 600 and hit where I aimed. I can call the shots and can still call the shots with my load from 100 to 600 yards. Of course there are sight adjustments and wind adjustments but If I'm on it's on. Same deal with my AR.

4runnerman · December 14, 2010, 06:26 PM

Im with ya Tim. 300 came easy,but got to tell ya im learning some new 4 letter words with this extreame stuff. Getting all the advice i can from kraigwy and a few others as well. Not going to give up,ever till i make it there.

course im 50 now so never is a option i guess

December 13, 2010, 09:45 PM	#1
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	Testing Rounds I am spending my winter working on developing a load for Garand competition next year. I am not looking for a recipe, I took care of that with an earlier thread entitled Garand Competition Loads. I am now in the process of testing the loads and need some advice. When testing 30-06 ammo for accuracy, is 100 yard groupings a good prediction of 200 yard accuracy? Or should I test the rounds at 200 yards? The reason I ask is it is much easier to see the 100 yard target with my spotting scope (saving up to get a better one) and it is much quicker to change targets walking 100 yards as opposed to 200 yards, thus avoiding ******* off the other guys at the range for taking too long to change targets. Thanks for the advice! __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

December 13, 2010, 10:05 PM	#2
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I would think a 100 would be fine. I tested mine at a 100 and worked fine out to 600. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

December 14, 2010, 12:43 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	In CMP GSM matches they use the NRA 200 yards target. Sometimes do to range limitations they use the 100 yard reduced 200 yard target. Meaning, the scoring rings are the same size MOA wise as the 200 yard target. If I was (and I do) to want to test rounds for a Vintage Military Rifle, I use the Reduced target at 100 yards. Except for the difference in elevation (about two clicks or MOA) they would be the same. So if you find a load for your gun that you can keep in the X-10 ring, chances are you can also keep them in the X-10 at 200 yards. Most places that sell targets, sell the NRA 200 yard target reduced for 100 yards. Or if you want to print out your own you can use this site: http://dotclue.org/targets/sr1-11x17-l.pdf As a side note, this reduced target is the same target use in Carbine Matches which is fired at 100 yards. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 14, 2010, 01:17 PM	#5
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	As a Side note; The X-10 ring on the 200 yard reduced to 100 yards target the 10 ring is right at 3.3 inches in diameter. The X-Ring is 1.3 in in Dia. So if you have a rifle capable of shooting 3 inches (MOA) you can clean the targets, the rest is up to your. Don't get hung up on barrels when its the shooter. An example, my DCM M1 barrel should be shot out. (I say DCM because I got it in the early 80s when CMP was DCM). I've shot the crap out of it. I've shot it in HP matches, and practice. I played with it when running sniper schools (we used the M1C/Ds), several times shooting it until the sap boiled out of the hand guard. And I have no ideal how many rounds were shot out of it before I got it. It should be shot out. The throat erosion gage measures 8, gaging the muzzle tells me I should have 37% barrel life left. I don't clean the muzzle much. Yesterday I took it out, took a careful tight prone position and shoot three 8 round groups. This "abused" rifle still shoots 2.5 inch groups. So if I can't "clean" the targets in GSM matches, its me, These old work horses still shoot and shoot well. Use either the reduced targets or the 200 yard targets. Just about any Garand with decent ammo is capable of cleaning the targets. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 14, 2010, 04:57 PM	#6
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	4runnerman, Good thing my M-1 ammo didn't know it shouldn't have gone to 600 and hit where I aimed. I can call the shots and can still call the shots with my load from 100 to 600 yards. Of course there are sight adjustments and wind adjustments but If I'm on it's on. Same deal with my AR. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

December 13, 2010, 10:05 PM	#3
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	I only shoot 223,but i can tell you 100 yards is not enough for any test. Your bullet at that distance does not have time to be off if it is going to be. The test for accuracy is distance. What im saying is at 100 yards the amount off your bullet is will not show up very well unless you are way off. In other words at 100 yards if you are say shooting .5 inch groups,that same load would be compounded at a greater distance. First you need to decide what kind of accuracy you are looking for. I seldom shoot less than 300 yards. Also at great distances everything must come together. I had a situation this summer where i was shooting one hole at 100 yards,then when i went out to 300 yards i was shooting high and to the left.After reajusting scope i would come back to 100 yards and be off again.Finally dawned on me.I went and bought a scope level system and found out my scope was about 1/16th of a inch kiddy-wampas. Got everything set right and now im at 500 to 1000 yards.(not doing to good yet) Damn eggs are small at 500 yards.. So back to your question,You need to do the extra walking and get the targets out there farther. Another test you can do if you can't get that far out is get a big pc of cardboard 2 foot wide 4 foot high.Draw a line in middle from top to bottom the from side to sidee in middle. Place first shot at crosspoint of lines,then set scope for 300 yards or what ever you choose,shoot again,if your bullet stays on the vertical line and not off to left or right you might be doing good,Raise scope again and fire again and see if it still stays on vertical line. It's not a sure fire test,but gives you an idea of how things are going to go. Still not a substitute for actual distance shot though

December 14, 2010, 06:26 PM	#7
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Im with ya Tim. 300 came easy,but got to tell ya im learning some new 4 letter words with this extreame stuff. Getting all the advice i can from kraigwy and a few others as well. Not going to give up,ever till i make it there. course im 50 now so never is a option i guess