whats the point?

[44 AMP]

wanting a bolt action rifle with IRON SIGHTS on it. When they do get made, they get made with super short barrels, huge muzzle blast, cheap plastic magazines. and adjustable "rear sights" that perhaps are one step above a washer soldered onto a screw set into the receiver top.

If you can't find a longer barrel bolt action with good quality iron sights, you aren't shopping in the right places.

The big first step is to forget limiting yourself to NEW guns.

And a quality set of irons will cost more than a scope and be less rugged.

Do you sell roses with that horse manure??

If your iron sights cost more than a quality scope and are less rugged, you're shopping in the wrong places and buying the wrong stuff.

[Moloch]

I paid 48 bucks for the williams peep sight, the front sight plus base I got from my local dealer for free, he had several laying around from rifles he equipped with silencers.

Thats 48 bucks vs. 300+ bucks for a scope, +50 for a mount, +50 for bases

So the iron sights are at least 8x cheaper.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by Pocket Camera

hmm plastic magazines...

plastic magazines have increased shattering and breakage when they get cold.

I haven't seen any quality manufacturer such as Magpul have any issues in cold weather. And it gets cold up here in Montana. CAN they break? Sure. Metal mags can dent, too.

Originally Posted by Pocket Camera

and for the naysayers, the Appleseed project gets high touted on these forums as a great way to learn to shoot. i havent participated, but i have HEARD the emphasis is IRON SIGHTS..when possible.

I took my nephew to Appleseed. I researched what firearm setup is good for the course beforehand. I took the advice of installing Tech Sites, which are iron peep sights.

What did I see when we arrived? Everybody....EVERYBODY, but one other person had scopes. They didn't focus on the need for iron nor scopes.

[ghbucky]

I was recently clued in to a very nice offering by Savage that comes with very nice iron sights, based on reviews I've read.



Here's 2 pro shooters using iron sights on a rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G4wE4xQleA

[PocketCamera]

that comment sure makes me smile with glee the year i spent sorting through crooks and cooks trying to sell me worn out, shot out, 1903s for 1K$ plus, that needed complete rebuilds,
new stocks, bedding, new barrels, gunsmithing fees, that would have increased the cost by 2 or 3K$

[JohnKSa]

That would be depressing. Of course, you could have had a different experience and ended up with a Swedish Mauser in beautiful condition for under $140. There are always bad deals to be had--but that doesn't mean the good deals never existed.

[Double K]

Originally Posted by dahermit

It really depends upon what you mean by "hunting". Here in Michigan, the prime time (most deer taken during this time) is the twilight before full light in the morning and the twilight before full dark at night. That is when deer are the most active during shooting hours. As much as I like aperture sights (they are "iron") and I used them to good effect on an M1 Rifle during basic training and I used them in local Service Rifle competitions, they are problematic unless the light is good. If one opts to use iron, here in Michigan for deer, one gives up some of the best time for a shot at deer.

And that really is the objection with iron sights, add to that anyone without really good vision and you can't see the sights at the most productive times to hunt.
I like the clean lines of unscoped rifles and those neat vernier tang sight on old rifles, at one time I had Williams foolproof aperture sights on several guns, no more.
I had Lasik correction for distance vision which ruined my close up sight. I made the choice to have perfect distance vision in both eyes and good depth perception over close up vision. It was a pretty good trade off, I can spot coyote running up a hillside farther than any of my hunting partners.

[ghbucky]

new stocks, bedding, new barrels, gunsmithing fees, that would have increased the cost by 2 or 3K$

The reviewer I read on the Savage said that the action and sights are where the money is, apparently the plastic stock is terrible, so I guess the reality is that it is $475 + a stock.

[zukiphile]

There is nothing, I mean nothing, that iron sights do better than optics.

My iron sights never fog up, but maybe I just got very good ones.

[Double Naught Spy]

There is nothing, I mean nothing, that iron sights do better than optics.

My iron sights never fog up, but maybe I just got very good ones.

He's got you there!

[taylorce1]

PocketCamera have you looked at the CMP? I doubt you'll find a 1903 to buy there, but they will rebuild your old 1903 if you find a shooter grade rifle. However, I don't really know what kind of 1903 you're looking for but 100 year old rifles with a rich history usually command a premium even for the non pristine examples.

[SIGSHR]

In the Fall of 1979 at 100 yards in fading light I fired a 1.5" group of my 1978 Winchester M70 XTR with GI ammunition and the factory sights. You learn to shoot with iron sights, scopes will give you a boost, but if you really don't know how to shoot.....

[Deja vu]

Ever try hunting though thick kudzu with a scope? There are times when iron sights are better, I still prefer scopes but it’s simply not true that iron sights are never better than a scope.

[DukeConnor]

I only have 2 scoped rifles and one hasn't left the safe in years. I prefer irons and would love a bolt action rifle for hunting with m1/m14 style irons.

[44 AMP]

I prefer irons and would love a bolt action rifle for hunting with m1/m14 style irons.

Buy an M1A, and turn the gas system OFF. You now have a straight pull bolt action with the sights you want.

I'm sure there are other and cheaper ways to do it, but that's up to you.

[2damnold4this]

My grandson qualified with iron sights on an M16 last week. They train with optic next week.

Thanks to your grandson for his service.

[kenny53]

I like optics, at 67 I have a hard time with open sights. I am having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks and that may help. I will admit I have open sights on my hand guns. Sometimes you have to keep shopping until you can find what you want.

[jimbob86]

Iron sights are about as useful as cars with wooden wheels.

Lol ..... just because your eyes are old and decrepit does not mean everyone's are .... your judgement is clouded by your personal bias ..... stop it. The vast majority of rifles in the world are sporting "iron sights"... is this because there is a shortage of wood? Glass? What? The are in fact useful ..... or they would not BE. Your analogy is ridiculous: nobody has made wooden wheels for an automobile for nigh a century..... iron sights are not only in production on new rifles today, but are the rule in most of the world, rather than the exception..... just because you don't see them in all the latest gun rags (born and bred and fed by the Marketing promises of "The Next Big Thing!!!!!1111!") and yes, you might like them ..... but no..... most rifles in the world have not got glass atop them ..... and won't for a long while: irons work .... and the rifles under them are more likely to fail/degrade in normal use ......

[jimbob86]

If you can't find a longer barrel bolt action with good quality iron sights, you aren't shopping in the right places.

The big first step is to forget limiting yourself to NEW guns.

This. There are millions of guns out there ..... with iron sights, stocked for same (which is more than I can say for a lot of guns with glass on them!) ....

[Eight_is_enough]

Irons sure make the rifle easier to carry in your hand, and eliminate lot of weight, which is nice if you are mountain hunting. Forces you to be a serious hunter, with LR shots off the table.

[44 AMP]

Forces you to be a serious hunter, with LR shots off the table.

No, they don't. If only that WERE true...

Scope sights encourage different behavior than iron sights, some of it bad, but there's no force involved. Long range shots aren't off the table with iron sights, either.

What iron sights don't do, is work like a telescope. You'll never see some idiot "glassing" a hillside with an iron sighted rifle. All too often you see people with scoped rifles using the scope for LOOKING for game.

Nor do iron sights magnify distant animals, making people THINK a long shot is easy.

[ghbucky]

Thanks to your grandson for his service.

Thank you. To think that someone is thanking my GRANDSON for his military service is something I'm having a bit of a time with.

There aren't words for my pride in that young man.

[dgludwig]

Forces you to be a serious hunter, with LR shots off the table.

No, as 44 AMP pointed out, nothing "forces" you to be a "serious" hunter more than a sense of ethics does. What you imply is sort of analogous to the argument that a single-shot rifle forces you to be a more conscientious hunter, while a semi-auto rifle leads one to spray the countryside with bullets, mindless of the consequences.
Everything has to do with what we're taught and how well we adhere to sportsman-like conduct and nothing to do with the kind of gun we're hunting with or whether we rely on the rifle to have irons or glass to sight with.

[jetinteriorguy]

When I was young, about 45 years ago, I had really really good eyesight. I had an old Winchester model 1917 that was a superb shooter. Like a dummy I sold it to a friend who wanted to give it to his grandfather, a man I worked for as a teen and whom I greatly admired. He had it sporterized with just a new stock and rear sight but kept it stock otherwise. I stopped to visit one day and he asked if I recognized the rifle, and then handed me five rounds and we proceeded to the shooting bench outside their rear door. He pointed to a five gallon can sitting across the coulee and said that’s 530 yds. He told me where to aim and I gave it a shot. It hit right at the base of the can, I made an adjustment and hit it four times. So yeah, iron sights can do the job if you can. But age fixes that so now scopes only beyond 100yds for me.

[Onward Allusion]

PocketCamera
whats the point?

You're looking for the CZ 457 Jaguar. 28.6" barrel. Hooded front sight. Don't even need ear plugs when shooting outdoors.