9mm Enhanced Barrier Round

simonrichter · May 21, 2018, 12:25 PM

Does anybody have ballistic data on the EBR that was seemingly developed along with Glocks entry to the MHS trials? Speaking of, do the Army or the Marines even consider using something other than plain and simple ball ammo in their handguns? It is somewhat odd imho that they put so much emphasis on handguns as such while at the same time using a round that is virtually ineffective even against a modest level of ballistic protection. Many other Armies worldwide use 9mm ball, of course, but there are few which make so much fuss about their sidearm, respectively...

T. O'Heir · May 22, 2018, 12:21 PM

"...even consider using something other than..." Nothing but ball ammo is permitted for combat by the Rules of Land Warfare agreed upon during the assorted Hague Conventions. What is carried by MP's stationed on bases in the U.S. is irrelevant. Being a 'base cop' isn't combat.
"...make so much fuss about their sidearm..." Said 'fuss' comes primarily from civilians. Many of who have never worn a uniform.
It appears the term 'Enhanced Barrier Round' is a marketing term to get around calling it Armour Piercing. I'm not seeing any actual specs anywhere. Lots of discussion though.

Brit · May 22, 2018, 01:43 PM

Seems the constant round, for all Military Cops, the NATO Sub gun ammo. 125g all over the world. About 1200 fps. I have seen these rounds go through small English cars.

Jim Watson · May 22, 2018, 02:49 PM

The EBR is steel cored, therefore likely lighter and faster than hardball.
Is the jacket meant to peel off upon impact as the 'zine article implies? Who knows?

Bartholomew Roberts · May 24, 2018, 07:10 AM

That round would be prohibited armor piercing ammunition under U.S. law. That, plus the fact that it was a prototype ammo designed to work with a prototype that didn’t get selected makes me think you will have a difficult time finding anyone who has evaluated that ammo and can discuss it publicly.

I’m not sure what Federal was thinking with the steel tip. They’ve got to know that would be an administrative nightmare for the military due to federal law.

Jim Watson · May 24, 2018, 01:20 PM

I don't think the Army has to comply with the law on pistol AP.

simonrichter · May 26, 2018, 03:33 AM

Afaik the Hague Convention only prohibits expanding ammo, but it does not refer to whether a non-expanding bullet is lead- or steel-cored. Otherwise a lot of 5.56 ammo used by many NATO countries would be illegal in that respect...

Bartholomew Roberts · May 26, 2018, 06:29 AM

The Army doesn’t have to comply with the federal law; but they would be plagued trying to keep the AP ammo from wandering in to the civilian market. That’s going to mean high levels of accountability for each round of pistol ammo, with all the subsequent “Private Schmuckatelli only has 16 rounds in his pistol. Everybody stop what you are doing and scour the immediate area until it is found.”

May 21, 2018, 12:25 PM	#1
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 758	9mm Enhanced Barrier Round Does anybody have ballistic data on the EBR that was seemingly developed along with Glocks entry to the MHS trials? Speaking of, do the Army or the Marines even consider using something other than plain and simple ball ammo in their handguns? It is somewhat odd imho that they put so much emphasis on handguns as such while at the same time using a round that is virtually ineffective even against a modest level of ballistic protection. Many other Armies worldwide use 9mm ball, of course, but there are few which make so much fuss about their sidearm, respectively... __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

May 22, 2018, 12:21 PM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...even consider using something other than..." Nothing but ball ammo is permitted for combat by the Rules of Land Warfare agreed upon during the assorted Hague Conventions. What is carried by MP's stationed on bases in the U.S. is irrelevant. Being a 'base cop' isn't combat. "...make so much fuss about their sidearm..." Said 'fuss' comes primarily from civilians. Many of who have never worn a uniform. It appears the term 'Enhanced Barrier Round' is a marketing term to get around calling it Armour Piercing. I'm not seeing any actual specs anywhere. Lots of discussion though. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 26, 2018, 03:33 AM	#7
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 758	Afaik the Hague Convention only prohibits expanding ammo, but it does not refer to whether a non-expanding bullet is lead- or steel-cored. Otherwise a lot of 5.56 ammo used by many NATO countries would be illegal in that respect... __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

May 22, 2018, 01:43 PM	#3
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Seems the constant round, for all Military Cops, the NATO Sub gun ammo. 125g all over the world. About 1200 fps. I have seen these rounds go through small English cars.

May 22, 2018, 02:49 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The EBR is steel cored, therefore likely lighter and faster than hardball. Is the jacket meant to peel off upon impact as the 'zine article implies? Who knows?

May 24, 2018, 07:10 AM	#5
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	That round would be prohibited armor piercing ammunition under U.S. law. That, plus the fact that it was a prototype ammo designed to work with a prototype that didn’t get selected makes me think you will have a difficult time finding anyone who has evaluated that ammo and can discuss it publicly. I’m not sure what Federal was thinking with the steel tip. They’ve got to know that would be an administrative nightmare for the military due to federal law.

May 24, 2018, 01:20 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I don't think the Army has to comply with the law on pistol AP.

May 26, 2018, 06:29 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The Army doesn’t have to comply with the federal law; but they would be plagued trying to keep the AP ammo from wandering in to the civilian market. That’s going to mean high levels of accountability for each round of pistol ammo, with all the subsequent “Private Schmuckatelli only has 16 rounds in his pistol. Everybody stop what you are doing and scour the immediate area until it is found.”