Confused on a 94 winchester?

mrpike1973 · October 30, 2018, 08:54 PM

Hello great place here.
I just purchased a Winchester 1894 model 94 30-30 the serial is 60001xxM.
Here is my confusion it should be a 1991 year however it should be angled eject? it is not it is top eject. Is this rare? I called Winchester several times one person was confused by the M on the end of the serial Number other wise most said it is a 1991 year. I looked at pictures of others and it looks just like the regular top eject models. It's nothing fancy in nice shape and before the cross bolt safety. Really confused is it rare or just some anomaly that fell through the cracks thanks for any help. it does not appear modified in any way. the tube for holding the bullets is flush with the end of the barrel.

Dano4734 · October 30, 2018, 11:28 PM

Model 94AE by Winchester was a side angle ejection gun. I suspect that is what you have

DPris · October 30, 2018, 11:37 PM

All of the Winchester 94s eject through the top, period.
The AEs eject at an angle.
Denis

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 12:02 AM

Does that mean they made both top eject and angle eject during the same year? I'm 100% sure it is a top eject. it says model 94 on the barrel no AE on it.

DPris · October 31, 2018, 02:10 AM

You can tell if it's angle eject very simply by just looking- the RIGHT side of the upper frame will be cut down slightly lower than the left.

Or, you COULD try actually ejecting something through it.

There was a transitional period, quite likely both versions were produced during the same year, but not concurrently.

I'm not quite sure what your confusion is.
Angle eject does not mean side ejection like a Marlin, it just means the brass ejects at a right angle out the top, as opposed to straight up out the top.
Denis

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 08:35 AM

DPris, Thank you for the reply I have no confusion that it is for sure it's a top eject. Just that the serial number would say that it should be a angle eject for that period of number. I think it makes sense what you say a transitional period. I think I'm lucky because for me it's a cowboy gun.

DPris · October 31, 2018, 12:08 PM

When manufacturers introduce new variations to a long-running model, they don't do it on Jan 1, they'll just pick an arbitrary date that suits their internal logistics & make the switch from old to new.

If your gun truly was made in 1991, though, it CANNOT be a top eject. The AE was introduced in the early 1980s & the transition would have happened long before 1991.
Either you got the serial wrong, or you're not understanding what a side eject is.

DOES yours have the slightly lower right frame wall?
DOES yours eject up & to the right?

Can you show images of that area here?
Are you absolutely CERTAIN of the serial?
Denis

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 12:53 PM

yep it's top eject.
I called and sent pics to Winchester they say it's a 1991 model.
Possibly a promotional type gun for some reason?i was unable to upload a pic on here.

100% sure it is not a angled eject winchester also said I'm correct. They said many records were lost in a fire? it is a carbine they told me that.

Thanks for the help.

**44 AMP** · October 31, 2018, 12:53 PM

Checked some references, could not find any mention of any Win 94 serial number with a suffix letter. Prefix AE (angle eject) and BB (Big Bore), but no suffix and no letter "M".

Other than that the serial # given should be a Win 94 AE.

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 12:58 PM

Yep that's what I told winchester to that it should be an AE however it is not and they said it has not been altered. they said it was not rare but a few pop up from time to time? Just confusing.

Dano4734 · October 31, 2018, 01:39 PM

Yup I saw one other that’s why I said it was an AE

DPris · October 31, 2018, 02:32 PM

If truly made in '91, it must have been assembled from older remaining parts for some reason.
Those were long out of production in '91.

Possibly built by an employee for personal use.

Nobody at Browning now was a part of USRAC prior to the factory shutting down, to the best of my knowledge, so getting any useful info from them is unlikely.
Denis

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 03:21 PM

Just curious being this is a odd gun should I keep it or just sell it? I do like it a lot just don't want any issues with it on the serial number end of it.

DPris · October 31, 2018, 03:27 PM

What issues?
You bought it, shoot it.
Denis

Dano4734 · October 31, 2018, 04:05 PM

I would buy it i love lever guns

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 04:35 PM

Thanks for all the help everyone My biggest concern was being it should be a AE and is not that it would lose value or not be worth anything I paid 375 for it and it's in nice shape not perfect I do like that it is not a AE model. I hope I did not overpay to much but any post 1964 I have found are around 250-400 and most look worse than what I have .

DPris · October 31, 2018, 05:04 PM

If you like it & it shoots, quit worrying.
Go shoot it.
And if it does not eject straight up & back, you'll know it's an AE.
Denis

mrpike1973 · October 31, 2018, 06:15 PM

Thanks DPris I'm all mellow now. Thanks everyone!!

jumpingeezer · November 1, 2018, 11:58 AM

If it's an angle eject it will be drilled and tapped for scope mounts.

Look on the top of the receiver and if it has two tapped holes on the front parallel to the bore and two more tapped holes towards the rear of the receiver on either side then it is an angle eject model. If it doesn't have these holes then it is a top eject.

FrankenMauser · November 1, 2018, 01:23 PM

Quote:

If your gun truly was made in 1991, though, it CANNOT be a top eject. The AE was introduced in the early 1980s & the transition would have happened long before 1991.

The 94AE was introduced in 1983, with the first chambering actually being .307 Winchester in the 'Big Bore' model. Standard fodder followed shortly thereafter.

Quote:

Checked some references, could not find any mention of any Win 94 serial number with a suffix letter. Prefix AE (angle eject) and BB (Big Bore), but no suffix and no letter "M".

Other than that the serial # given should be a Win 94 AE.

That's interesting.
Suffixes were used quite regularly prior to the AE/BB.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a suffix on an AE/BB (especially since the most common use of a suffix was due to accidental serial number duplication), but I hadn't realized that I've never seen or heard of one, either.

mrpike1973 · November 1, 2018, 02:20 PM

More info today I talked with the Winchester collectors club. My rifle is a 1982.
Why? says it's a 1991. In 1982 there was a labor dispute and confusion of what serial numbers to use at the Winchester plant. During this time around 800 rifles a guestimate were given the 6,000,000 model numbers with the letter m on the end of them. due to this it causes confusion with actual 1991-1992 year models as it has been told in 1983 they started angle eject there is no other rifles save commemorative specialty rifles that are top eject only after 1982 All of the M code rifles are various 94 variations of caliber rifles. So in a nut shell mine is one of the last top ejects made. They also told me this does cause confusion time to time. So my question now is do I have the bad sintered metal or is mine a fairly robust built rifle. I think it's kinda neat what I got now. Probably not worth much but I got a Winchester 94 and that's what counts for me.

DPris · November 1, 2018, 02:28 PM

In '94 I asked an USRAC contact when the changeover to forged from sintered occurred, he said about the mid 1980s but couldn't give an exact date or serial.

Your Winchester collector's club might be able to tell you.

As far as robust goes, by '82 the stamped lifter was gone, so that's a plus either way.
The strength of the frames were not the issue, it was the finish.
Can't blue the sintered steel, so the frames were plated with iron which could be blued.

The finish is VERY prone to rust & it's an involved process to totally refinish.
If sintered, which it probably is, make sure you keep the frame well oiled & keep an eye out for rust freckles.
They'll develop into pitting.
Denis

mrpike1973 · November 1, 2018, 03:13 PM

DPris just for clarity mine does have the sintered receiver? Mine has 3 small pitting spots on it I just keep it really oiled. I have no want of refinishing it sounds like it would not work much any way. Are the mechanical/ moving parts good in this year gun? Nothing I should worry about breaking/ Again thank you? is it just the receivers that were sintered?

DPris · November 1, 2018, 04:48 PM

You PROBABLY have the sintered frame.
If it's already got pitting on it, I'd say you almost certainly do.

The sintering refers only to the frame, not the internals.
The mechanicals should be good.

Keep up with that pitting, it has a tendency to erode through the bluing & the iron into the steel underneath, and it'll spread if you let it.

I've seen a buddy's sintered frame really go bad on external rust.
Denis

mrpike1973 · November 1, 2018, 05:38 PM

Thank you I will keep her oiled good is Rem oil good enough. Thanks for the info loving this rifle more and more.

October 30, 2018, 08:54 PM	#1
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Confused on a 94 winchester? Hello great place here. I just purchased a Winchester 1894 model 94 30-30 the serial is 60001xxM. Here is my confusion it should be a 1991 year however it should be angled eject? it is not it is top eject. Is this rare? I called Winchester several times one person was confused by the M on the end of the serial Number other wise most said it is a 1991 year. I looked at pictures of others and it looks just like the regular top eject models. It's nothing fancy in nice shape and before the cross bolt safety. Really confused is it rare or just some anomaly that fell through the cracks thanks for any help. it does not appear modified in any way. the tube for holding the bullets is flush with the end of the barrel.

October 30, 2018, 11:28 PM	#2
Dano4734 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Posts: 730	Model 94AE by Winchester was a side angle ejection gun. I suspect that is what you have Last edited by Dano4734; October 30, 2018 at 11:34 PM.

October 31, 2018, 12:53 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,812	Checked some references, could not find any mention of any Win 94 serial number with a suffix letter. Prefix AE (angle eject) and BB (Big Bore), but no suffix and no letter "M". Other than that the serial # given should be a Win 94 AE. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

October 30, 2018, 11:37 PM	#3
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	All of the Winchester 94s eject through the top, period. The AEs eject at an angle. Denis

October 31, 2018, 12:02 AM	#4
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Does that mean they made both top eject and angle eject during the same year? I'm 100% sure it is a top eject. it says model 94 on the barrel no AE on it.

October 31, 2018, 02:10 AM	#5
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	You can tell if it's angle eject very simply by just looking- the RIGHT side of the upper frame will be cut down slightly lower than the left. Or, you COULD try actually ejecting something through it. There was a transitional period, quite likely both versions were produced during the same year, but not concurrently. I'm not quite sure what your confusion is. Angle eject does not mean side ejection like a Marlin, it just means the brass ejects at a right angle out the top, as opposed to straight up out the top. Denis

October 31, 2018, 08:35 AM	#6
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	DPris, Thank you for the reply I have no confusion that it is for sure it's a top eject. Just that the serial number would say that it should be a angle eject for that period of number. I think it makes sense what you say a transitional period. I think I'm lucky because for me it's a cowboy gun.

October 31, 2018, 12:08 PM	#7
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	When manufacturers introduce new variations to a long-running model, they don't do it on Jan 1, they'll just pick an arbitrary date that suits their internal logistics & make the switch from old to new. If your gun truly was made in 1991, though, it CANNOT be a top eject. The AE was introduced in the early 1980s & the transition would have happened long before 1991. Either you got the serial wrong, or you're not understanding what a side eject is. DOES yours have the slightly lower right frame wall? DOES yours eject up & to the right? Can you show images of that area here? Are you absolutely CERTAIN of the serial? Denis

October 31, 2018, 12:58 PM	#10
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Yep that's what I told winchester to that it should be an AE however it is not and they said it has not been altered. they said it was not rare but a few pop up from time to time? Just confusing.

October 31, 2018, 01:39 PM	#11
Dano4734 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Posts: 730	Yup I saw one other that’s why I said it was an AE

October 31, 2018, 02:32 PM	#12
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	If truly made in '91, it must have been assembled from older remaining parts for some reason. Those were long out of production in '91. Possibly built by an employee for personal use. Nobody at Browning now was a part of USRAC prior to the factory shutting down, to the best of my knowledge, so getting any useful info from them is unlikely. Denis

October 31, 2018, 03:21 PM	#13
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Just curious being this is a odd gun should I keep it or just sell it? I do like it a lot just don't want any issues with it on the serial number end of it.

October 31, 2018, 03:27 PM	#14
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	What issues? You bought it, shoot it. Denis

October 31, 2018, 04:05 PM	#15
Dano4734 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Posts: 730	I would buy it i love lever guns

October 31, 2018, 04:35 PM	#16
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Thanks for all the help everyone My biggest concern was being it should be a AE and is not that it would lose value or not be worth anything I paid 375 for it and it's in nice shape not perfect I do like that it is not a AE model. I hope I did not overpay to much but any post 1964 I have found are around 250-400 and most look worse than what I have .

October 31, 2018, 05:04 PM	#17
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	If you like it & it shoots, quit worrying. Go shoot it. And if it does not eject straight up & back, you'll know it's an AE. Denis

October 31, 2018, 06:15 PM	#18
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Thanks DPris I'm all mellow now. Thanks everyone!!

November 1, 2018, 11:58 AM	#19
jumpingeezer Member Join Date: November 19, 2015 Posts: 88	If it's an angle eject it will be drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Look on the top of the receiver and if it has two tapped holes on the front parallel to the bore and two more tapped holes towards the rear of the receiver on either side then it is an angle eject model. If it doesn't have these holes then it is a top eject.

November 1, 2018, 02:20 PM	#21
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	More info today I talked with the Winchester collectors club. My rifle is a 1982. Why? says it's a 1991. In 1982 there was a labor dispute and confusion of what serial numbers to use at the Winchester plant. During this time around 800 rifles a guestimate were given the 6,000,000 model numbers with the letter m on the end of them. due to this it causes confusion with actual 1991-1992 year models as it has been told in 1983 they started angle eject there is no other rifles save commemorative specialty rifles that are top eject only after 1982 All of the M code rifles are various 94 variations of caliber rifles. So in a nut shell mine is one of the last top ejects made. They also told me this does cause confusion time to time. So my question now is do I have the bad sintered metal or is mine a fairly robust built rifle. I think it's kinda neat what I got now. Probably not worth much but I got a Winchester 94 and that's what counts for me.

November 1, 2018, 02:28 PM	#22
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	In '94 I asked an USRAC contact when the changeover to forged from sintered occurred, he said about the mid 1980s but couldn't give an exact date or serial. Your Winchester collector's club might be able to tell you. As far as robust goes, by '82 the stamped lifter was gone, so that's a plus either way. The strength of the frames were not the issue, it was the finish. Can't blue the sintered steel, so the frames were plated with iron which could be blued. The finish is VERY prone to rust & it's an involved process to totally refinish. If sintered, which it probably is, make sure you keep the frame well oiled & keep an eye out for rust freckles. They'll develop into pitting. Denis

November 1, 2018, 03:13 PM	#23
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	DPris just for clarity mine does have the sintered receiver? Mine has 3 small pitting spots on it I just keep it really oiled. I have no want of refinishing it sounds like it would not work much any way. Are the mechanical/ moving parts good in this year gun? Nothing I should worry about breaking/ Again thank you? is it just the receivers that were sintered?

November 1, 2018, 04:48 PM	#24
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	You PROBABLY have the sintered frame. If it's already got pitting on it, I'd say you almost certainly do. The sintering refers only to the frame, not the internals. The mechanicals should be good. Keep up with that pitting, it has a tendency to erode through the bluing & the iron into the steel underneath, and it'll spread if you let it. I've seen a buddy's sintered frame really go bad on external rust. Denis

November 1, 2018, 05:38 PM	#25
mrpike1973 Member Join Date: October 30, 2018 Posts: 21	Thank you I will keep her oiled good is Rem oil good enough. Thanks for the info loving this rifle more and more.