WWII OSS Pen gun

Brian Jones · September 13, 2000, 11:16 AM

Anybody have any information on what these generally are worth if they are in good condition? A friend has one that he inherited, given to his Uncle by the predessor to the CIA because his Uncle uncovered Nazi spies in his company back in WWII... It is fully functional and in excellent condition...

Any info would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Brian.

johnbt · September 13, 2000, 08:30 PM

I started searching, out of curiosity, and found that pen guns are Class 3 restricted weapons. That should add to the value. www.recguns.com/IIF1.html
I'll keep looking and see if I can find a $$ amount. John

Brian Jones · September 14, 2000, 02:21 PM

Thanks much for the reply, John!

Best,

Brian.

johnvr4 · August 14, 2009, 11:56 AM

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2158289.story

WWII pen guns can be had in Orlando for a walmart gift card and sneakers. You just have to be in the right place at the right time!

S&W sells a modern one called a stinger - More than $400 Check gun broker
http://www.pengun.com/

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...tinger-pen-gun -it looked like $1000-1500 a few years ago

Bill DeShivs · August 14, 2009, 01:27 PM

S&W has nothing to do with the Stinger pen gun.

**4V50 Gary** · August 14, 2009, 06:09 PM

A man turns in his father's collectible gun for a miserable $50. Sheeple. :barf:

SwampYankee · August 14, 2009, 07:20 PM

Yeah, I can't see S&W getting into that particular business....

Bill DeShivs · August 14, 2009, 07:59 PM

If your pen gun was registered with the feds in 1968 or before it will have some value as a collector's item. If it has not been previously registered, it is contraband.

Tom2 · August 14, 2009, 08:17 PM

Contraband? Uhh he meant pen guin, he just forgot the i, right?

RJay · June 8, 2015, 09:11 PM

OSS pen guns are like Wells Fargo shotguns and the current sniper rifles. There are far more now on the market than were ever made. I would estimate about (% percent more ).

James K · June 8, 2015, 09:27 PM

And how does one go about making contraband legal? As I understand it, those are smooth-bore pistols and, in the U.S., are in the NFA AOW category. If one is not registered it is contraband. It seems to my non-lawyer mind that it is illegal for someone to possess it, illegal to transfer it to you, illegal for you to possess it, and illegal for you to change or modify it, because that would be tampering with evidence of a federal felony.

Now if one had originally been made with a rifled barrel, and that could be shown in court, then it would not be an AOW, but simply a handgun. But that is not what you seem to be saying.

You can, of course collect them, all you want, just as you can collect registered machineguns. But making unregistered AOW's or SMG's legal by "disarming" them is a new one on me.

Or could it be that if someone were to sell an unregistered AOW to you, he could find himself having a discussion with your co-workers at the BATFE office?

Jim

PS. BATFE has specifically removed the FP-45 Liberator pistol from the purview of the NFA and placed it in the C&R category; AFAIK, that has not been done with any other smooth-bore pistol of that nature.

JK

Bill DeShivs · June 8, 2015, 10:38 PM

AND they are "disguised weapons" which automatically puts them on the AOW list.
I guess you could make an unregistered one legal by cutting it into 3 pieces with a torch, and discarding the middle piece.
Sure sounds like a sting (not stinger) to me!

James K · June 9, 2015, 10:12 PM

I have also seen or heard of several people who claim to have some way of making unregistered machineguns legal. Almost always, they believe that if you "just weld it up" or "plug the barrel" or "remove the firing pin", the gun will then be legal. Others think that a museum can take illegal NFA weapons; one fellow told me he ran a museum, took in unregistered machineguns, then loaned them back to the original owners to shoot. (I haven't heard from him for a while, I wonder why.)

Museums CAN accept such guns IF they are government museums AND if the donation is approved by BATFE AFTER the gun is surrendered to them. Just walking into a museum with a Thompson and emptying a 50 round drum into the ceiling to get their attention is NOT recommended.)

(In fact, Bill, even if he did cut the gun up with a torch, it would still be illegal and there would be an additional charge of destroying evidence of a felony. When the term "contraband" is used, think package of heroin. If I find my uncle's stash of horse in the attic, I can't use it, peddle it on the street, pass it around to my buddies, or even drop it in the ocean. The only thing I can do legally is turn it over to LE.)

Jim

Gunfixr · June 10, 2015, 09:59 PM

There is a form 10, to register contraband guns, but they do not become transferrable. If i recall correctly, le or govt agencies can use it to keep weapons they want to use.
As mentioned, a pen gun is still an aow, since it is a disguised weapon.
According to atf, once contraband, always contraband. They have never told us any different.
If this guy is deactivating them, he must be just doing it, and claiming it done, using the parts to make "non guns".
Till he gets caught, i guess.

James K · June 10, 2015, 11:28 PM

Anyone remember the M14 that was advertised for sale one time? The seller claimed it was legal to own with no papers and could be sent to any 01 dealer.

I got curious and called the number in the ad. But I forgot about the time change to CST, so my call got there before the "gun shop" opened. The night operator informed me that "Agent X is not at his desk right now." "AGENT X"???? I am pretty sure the gun would have been sold and, if the dealer was not on the ball, delivered to the buyer. Then later, Agent X's buddies would have paid the buyer a visit and the BATFE would have gotten another "dangerous criminal terrorist" off the streets. Beer parties and promotions all around.

Jim

Gunfixr · June 11, 2015, 06:30 AM

I dont remember that add, but people occasionally walk in the shop and ask questions, or come in with something and they want something done. We run them out right quick. But they always leave us wondering. Some of them just dont sound right.

Gunfixr · June 11, 2015, 06:34 AM

One guy comes in, wanting to know how to make his own homemade suppressor, and he stresses no paperwork, while an atf investigator is sitting at the table in the shop doing the yearly audit.
Lol.

James K · June 11, 2015, 09:58 AM

And that can backfire. At one shop I worked at, the owner told me that a guy had come in with a big round machinegun magazine and wanted $10 for it, and "I threw him out - I don't want no machinegun stuff in my shop...."

With bit of questioning, I determined that it had to be a 100 round Thompson magazine. Needless to say, no name or anything. I have no idea what a C magazine would go for today, but it would be a lot more than $10.

Jim

Gunfixr · June 11, 2015, 11:32 AM

Well, i am sure the ones we have run out, we lost nothing.
Im talking guys who want a gun converted to full auto, guys who walk in with an nfa weapon who dont know what an approved f4 is, stuff like that. Guys who come in and want work done on a shotgun, they have trimmed the barrels, but it needs other work. Cut crooked with a hacksaw, one side is on the line, the other 1/16" short.
"but that side is good, so its ok, right?"

hoghunting · June 11, 2015, 12:29 PM

Quote:

two1253....Hello, I just read this old posting. OSS Stinger pistols can be made legal. I have done it several times. I collect them. Looking to purchase 2 more to fill my original shipping container. If you know of anyone that has one. Please have them e mail me at [email protected]. I must disarm them to make them legal. I know how. It is tricky. But can be done.

Thank you

Noticed he hasn't been back, James K might have exposed him.

Bill DeShivs · June 11, 2015, 05:34 PM

"Cut crooked with a hacksaw, one side is on the line, the other 1/16" short.
"but that side is good, so its ok, right?""

Actually, as long as any part of the barrel is over the limit it would be legal.

James K · June 11, 2015, 07:34 PM

A common belief, stated on this and other sites, is that if someone wants an NFA weapon made (say a shotgun cut down), he needs to get a Form 1 approved then "take it to a gunsmith to cut the barrel."

BATFE says that is illegal. If I apply to manufacture an NFA firearm, pay the tax and get the OK, I MUST do the work myself. I MUST "manufacture" the gun as I am the only one authorized to do so on a Form 1. If I take it to anyone else, HE MUST have a manufacturer's license, and he MUST transfer the (now) NFA weapon back to me on a Form 4 with another tax. In essence, I have wasted $200 and my time, and if the gunsmith does not have a manufacturer's license, he has violated the law. (I can use the gunsmith's shop, if he will let me, but I must do the actual conversion, the cutting of the barrel.)

I know some will argue, and tell how they got the paper and cousin Abner cut off the barrel, but before calling me names, check with BATFE technical division. That is what they told me and what I understand to be true in other cases.

Jim

Sharkbite · June 11, 2015, 10:28 PM

Quote:

I MUST "manufacture" the gun as I am the only one authorized to do so on a Form 1. If I take it to anyone else, HE MUST have a manufacturer's license,

While this is true. The way to do it is if i want a SBS made out of my 28" 870. I cut the barrel to 17". That makes me the "maker" of the SBS. I can then have any gunsmith cut it to whatever length and final finish it.

The gunsmith did not make the SBS, i did, under the Form 1 in my name

James K · June 11, 2015, 10:34 PM

Correct. It was a shotgun. It ceased being a shotgun when the front of the barrel fell off. At that point, it became an SBS, another category of firearm in the eyes of the law, and a gunsmith can trim up the job.

Jim

Gunfixr · June 12, 2015, 12:24 AM

Ok, so as long as any part of the barrel is over, its good. But, will atf consider two barrels side by side to be one barrel, or two barrels?
If two barrels, one is illegal.

August 14, 2009, 11:56 AM	#4
johnvr4 Junior Member Join Date: August 14, 2009 Posts: 1	Pen gun info http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2158289.story WWII pen guns can be had in Orlando for a walmart gift card and sneakers. You just have to be in the right place at the right time! S&W sells a modern one called a stinger - More than $400 Check gun broker http://www.pengun.com/ http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...tinger-pen-gun -it looked like $1000-1500 a few years ago

August 14, 2009, 01:27 PM	#5
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	S&W has nothing to do with the Stinger pen gun. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 14, 2009, 06:09 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	A man turns in his father's collectible gun for a miserable $50. Sheeple. :barf: __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 14, 2009, 07:59 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	If your pen gun was registered with the feds in 1968 or before it will have some value as a collector's item. If it has not been previously registered, it is contraband. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 14, 2009, 08:17 PM	#9
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Contraband? Uhh he meant pen guin, he just forgot the i, right? __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

September 13, 2000, 11:16 AM	#1
Brian Jones Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Posts: 5	Anybody have any information on what these generally are worth if they are in good condition? A friend has one that he inherited, given to his Uncle by the predessor to the CIA because his Uncle uncovered Nazi spies in his company back in WWII... It is fully functional and in excellent condition... Any info would be appreciated! Thanks, Brian.

September 13, 2000, 08:30 PM	#2
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	I started searching, out of curiosity, and found that pen guns are Class 3 restricted weapons. That should add to the value. www.recguns.com/IIF1.html I'll keep looking and see if I can find a $$ amount. John

September 14, 2000, 02:21 PM	#3
Brian Jones Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Posts: 5	Thanks much for the reply, John! Best, Brian.

August 14, 2009, 07:20 PM	#7
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	Yeah, I can't see S&W getting into that particular business....

June 8, 2015, 09:11 PM	#10
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	OSS pen guns are like Wells Fargo shotguns and the current sniper rifles. There are far more now on the market than were ever made. I would estimate about (% percent more ). __________________ Ron James

June 8, 2015, 09:27 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	And how does one go about making contraband legal? As I understand it, those are smooth-bore pistols and, in the U.S., are in the NFA AOW category. If one is not registered it is contraband. It seems to my non-lawyer mind that it is illegal for someone to possess it, illegal to transfer it to you, illegal for you to possess it, and illegal for you to change or modify it, because that would be tampering with evidence of a federal felony. Now if one had originally been made with a rifled barrel, and that could be shown in court, then it would not be an AOW, but simply a handgun. But that is not what you seem to be saying. You can, of course collect them, all you want, just as you can collect registered machineguns. But making unregistered AOW's or SMG's legal by "disarming" them is a new one on me. Or could it be that if someone were to sell an unregistered AOW to you, he could find himself having a discussion with your co-workers at the BATFE office? Jim PS. BATFE has specifically removed the FP-45 Liberator pistol from the purview of the NFA and placed it in the C&R category; AFAIK, that has not been done with any other smooth-bore pistol of that nature. JK

June 8, 2015, 10:38 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	AND they are "disguised weapons" which automatically puts them on the AOW list. I guess you could make an unregistered one legal by cutting it into 3 pieces with a torch, and discarding the middle piece. Sure sounds like a sting (not stinger) to me! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 9, 2015, 10:12 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have also seen or heard of several people who claim to have some way of making unregistered machineguns legal. Almost always, they believe that if you "just weld it up" or "plug the barrel" or "remove the firing pin", the gun will then be legal. Others think that a museum can take illegal NFA weapons; one fellow told me he ran a museum, took in unregistered machineguns, then loaned them back to the original owners to shoot. (I haven't heard from him for a while, I wonder why.) Museums CAN accept such guns IF they are government museums AND if the donation is approved by BATFE AFTER the gun is surrendered to them. Just walking into a museum with a Thompson and emptying a 50 round drum into the ceiling to get their attention is NOT recommended.) (In fact, Bill, even if he did cut the gun up with a torch, it would still be illegal and there would be an additional charge of destroying evidence of a felony. When the term "contraband" is used, think package of heroin. If I find my uncle's stash of horse in the attic, I can't use it, peddle it on the street, pass it around to my buddies, or even drop it in the ocean. The only thing I can do legally is turn it over to LE.) Jim

June 10, 2015, 09:59 PM	#14
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	There is a form 10, to register contraband guns, but they do not become transferrable. If i recall correctly, le or govt agencies can use it to keep weapons they want to use. As mentioned, a pen gun is still an aow, since it is a disguised weapon. According to atf, once contraband, always contraband. They have never told us any different. If this guy is deactivating them, he must be just doing it, and claiming it done, using the parts to make "non guns". Till he gets caught, i guess.

June 10, 2015, 11:28 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Anyone remember the M14 that was advertised for sale one time? The seller claimed it was legal to own with no papers and could be sent to any 01 dealer. I got curious and called the number in the ad. But I forgot about the time change to CST, so my call got there before the "gun shop" opened. The night operator informed me that "Agent X is not at his desk right now." "AGENT X"???? I am pretty sure the gun would have been sold and, if the dealer was not on the ball, delivered to the buyer. Then later, Agent X's buddies would have paid the buyer a visit and the BATFE would have gotten another "dangerous criminal terrorist" off the streets. Beer parties and promotions all around. Jim

June 11, 2015, 06:30 AM	#16
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	I dont remember that add, but people occasionally walk in the shop and ask questions, or come in with something and they want something done. We run them out right quick. But they always leave us wondering. Some of them just dont sound right.

June 11, 2015, 06:34 AM	#17
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	One guy comes in, wanting to know how to make his own homemade suppressor, and he stresses no paperwork, while an atf investigator is sitting at the table in the shop doing the yearly audit. Lol.

June 11, 2015, 09:58 AM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	And that can backfire. At one shop I worked at, the owner told me that a guy had come in with a big round machinegun magazine and wanted $10 for it, and "I threw him out - I don't want no machinegun stuff in my shop...." With bit of questioning, I determined that it had to be a 100 round Thompson magazine. Needless to say, no name or anything. I have no idea what a C magazine would go for today, but it would be a lot more than $10. Jim

June 11, 2015, 11:32 AM	#19
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Well, i am sure the ones we have run out, we lost nothing. Im talking guys who want a gun converted to full auto, guys who walk in with an nfa weapon who dont know what an approved f4 is, stuff like that. Guys who come in and want work done on a shotgun, they have trimmed the barrels, but it needs other work. Cut crooked with a hacksaw, one side is on the line, the other 1/16" short. "but that side is good, so its ok, right?"

June 11, 2015, 05:34 PM	#21
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	"Cut crooked with a hacksaw, one side is on the line, the other 1/16" short. "but that side is good, so its ok, right?"" Actually, as long as any part of the barrel is over the limit it would be legal. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 11, 2015, 07:34 PM	#22
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A common belief, stated on this and other sites, is that if someone wants an NFA weapon made (say a shotgun cut down), he needs to get a Form 1 approved then "take it to a gunsmith to cut the barrel." BATFE says that is illegal. If I apply to manufacture an NFA firearm, pay the tax and get the OK, I MUST do the work myself. I MUST "manufacture" the gun as I am the only one authorized to do so on a Form 1. If I take it to anyone else, HE MUST have a manufacturer's license, and he MUST transfer the (now) NFA weapon back to me on a Form 4 with another tax. In essence, I have wasted $200 and my time, and if the gunsmith does not have a manufacturer's license, he has violated the law. (I can use the gunsmith's shop, if he will let me, but I must do the actual conversion, the cutting of the barrel.) I know some will argue, and tell how they got the paper and cousin Abner cut off the barrel, but before calling me names, check with BATFE technical division. That is what they told me and what I understand to be true in other cases. Jim Last edited by James K; June 11, 2015 at 10:37 PM.

June 11, 2015, 10:34 PM	#24
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Correct. It was a shotgun. It ceased being a shotgun when the front of the barrel fell off. At that point, it became an SBS, another category of firearm in the eyes of the law, and a gunsmith can trim up the job. Jim

June 12, 2015, 12:24 AM	#25
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Ok, so as long as any part of the barrel is over, its good. But, will atf consider two barrels side by side to be one barrel, or two barrels? If two barrels, one is illegal.