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Old July 13, 2021, 06:39 PM   #51
FireForged
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While I can understand training situations with someone attempting to grab your rifle, I can't understand a situation where you are ending up in a wrestling match over your rifle. If you failed to shoot someone trying to grab your firearm, you screwed up and probably need to find another line of work.
If you do not accept how easy it is for things to get all upside down in lone self defense action, I cant probably cant explain it.

People do not train in weapons retention techniques because CQB is a ballet, its not. A guy with a rifle is not magically protected from a physical struggle by virtue of the fact that he is armed. A guy with a rifle and bayonet never got knocked down, disarmed or overpowered, right? People mess up, people are sometimes out matched, out maneuvered, out numbered, ambushed and a million other things. We are human, it happens. A person can either take steps to mitigate the potential for such a dilemma or not. I accept that fighting is risky business and I simply try to eliminate a much unnecessary difficulties which might also allow me to exploit certain conditions in my own favor.
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Old July 13, 2021, 08:54 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
If you do not accept how easy it is for things to get all upside down in lone self defense action, I cant probably cant explain it.

People do not train in weapons retention techniques because CQB is a ballet, its not. A guy with a rifle is not magically protected from a physical struggle by virtue of the fact that he is armed. A guy with a rifle and bayonet never got knocked down, disarmed or overpowered, right? People mess up, people are sometimes out matched, out maneuvered, out numbered, ambushed and a million other things. We are human, it happens. A person can either take steps to mitigate the potential for such a dilemma or not. I accept that fighting is risky business and I simply try to eliminate a much unnecessary difficulties which might also allow me to exploit certain conditions in my own favor.
Explain a situation where this would likely happen. Some guy trying to clear a building with multiple rooms?
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Old July 15, 2021, 11:50 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by jmr40 View Post
Typical 12 ga buckshot loads are comparable to 300 WM rifle recoil.
I've never fired a 300, but I have shot many a high brass 00 buck out of my 590 and it's a cupcake compared to my Finn M91 using 174 grain yellow tip FMJ. Just sayin.

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Old July 16, 2021, 05:24 PM   #54
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Weapon retention is certainly a valid topic for T&T and one where the choice of long gun vs. handgun makes a difference.

I've deleted some posts, not because they were off topic but because the exchange wasn't productive.

The goal of T&T is to exchange ideas, to provide information and to share the benefit of training and experience. Not to exchange one-liners and sarcasm.
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Old July 18, 2021, 09:52 PM   #55
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Keeping rats and squirrels from my feeders and the occasional woodchuck or rabbit from my veggies, I use various toys, from slingshots, recurve bows and airguns, up to rifles & handguns... all out my kitchen window. Most of the time, the muzzle is slowly pushed outside the window, so the sound doesn't bother me much at all.

With one particularly skittish varmint, I stood further back inside covered in the shadows, the muzzle of my .22 rifle well inside the window frame, and shot offhand. The noise was deafening and my ears rang for days.

I cannot imagine how loud and damaging to the ears a 9mm or .357 would be inside a dwelling, much less a .223!

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Old July 19, 2021, 11:02 AM   #56
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With one particularly skittish varmint, I stood further back inside covered in the shadows, the muzzle of my .22 rifle well inside the window frame, and shot offhand. The noise was deafening and my ears rang for days.
I cannot imagine how loud and damaging to the ears a 9mm or .357 would be inside a dwelling, much less a .223!
Correct, ... which is the purpose of running a weapon suppressed if there's any likelihood you'll be touching it off inside a home, apartment, or other structure.
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Old July 21, 2021, 05:31 PM   #57
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yep.. I have a close friend that ND'd a 357 in his hallway. He said he had to sit down on the floor for about 20 minutes. He said that he was experiencing something like vertigo and could not walk or stand. He said that if here were having to fight an intruder, he would have been up crap creek.

Certainly there are many things that come into play when dealing with sound pressure but concerns over db and discharging firearms indoors are no joke.
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Old July 21, 2021, 05:52 PM   #58
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9mm instead of 5.56 for HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by shurshot View Post
With one particularly skittish varmint, I stood further back inside covered in the shadows, the muzzle of my .22 rifle well inside the window frame, and shot offhand. The noise was deafening and my ears rang for days.

I cannot imagine how loud and damaging to the ears a 9mm or .357 would be inside a dwelling, much less a .223!
From my own experience (which I’ll caveat by saying it was a single shot in the different events), my ears didn’t ring for days from a 9mm+P fired from a 3.5”-4” barrel. My ears didn’t really ring at all. What I had was short term hearing loss, in the matter of say a minute or two with the loss tapering as time went by. It was as if everything was muffled. Within a few minutes my hearing seemed fine, though my ears hurt for the afternoon (as I mentioned earlier I do have some hyperacusis). Again, in a defensive situation if you have to fire multiple shots this may be cumulative.

In the event you can’t hear someone such as first responders showing up or entering the dwelling this hearing loss could be very problematic. There was a sad story a few years back of a grandfather that fought off a home intruder who was attempting to rape and drown his grandson. The grandfather retrieved a firearm and shot the assailant. Afterwards the grandfather didn’t hear the responding officer ordering him to drop the firearm. The officer shot and killed the grandfather (who was normally hard of hearing and had sustained a blow to the head in the event in addition to the noise from the shooting). Beyond the long term damage to your hearing there can also be immediate repercussions of hearing loss.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/no-charges-officer/


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Old July 24, 2021, 11:54 AM   #59
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Explain a situation where this would likely happen. Some guy trying to clear a building with multiple rooms?
In numerous circumstances where a person may have a child, children or other vulnerable family members in the home that is currently invaded by a bad-guy or ( bad-guys)

In numerous circumstances where another family member may have engaged an intruder and you are coming to their aid vs an unknow number of bad-guys.

In numerous circumstance where a defender is lured from a position of advantage to a position of disadvantage via subterfuge.

In numerous circumstances where a person who is currently in a defendable position of advantage but is forced to move or flee due to encroaching danger such as fire, smoke, being overrun, fired upon, being flanked or having to retreat due to injury.

So pretty much anything that might require a person to move within a hostile environment when they otherwise would have wanted to stay put. Its not a foreign concept. Sometimes its not as easy as simply saying "im gonna stay right here at the corner of this bookcase".
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