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Old January 28, 2019, 08:27 PM   #26
FrankenMauser
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I'd be leaning toward the .243.
7-08s are good. .260 Rem is good. 6.5 Creed is good. ...But they're all still pretty close to .308 Win recoil in same-weight rifles.
.243 Win, all else being equal, will soften the recoil a bit more while still being 'enough gun'.


It's not on your list, and arguably obscure and ridiculous, but my real vote would be for 6.5x50mmR Jap. It's such a sweet little cartridge. Soft shooting. Accurate as any other 6.5. But still pushing enough muzzle velocity to be effective.
I would not, however, ever consider it - even the tiniest bit - for someone that doesn't reload. Factory ammo is NOT budget-friendly.
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Old January 28, 2019, 08:59 PM   #27
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FM: I empathize with other 6.5ers (I'm a CM guy). If the recoil of the 7-8 with reduced recoil rounds is even a few #s less than my CM, that seems pretty minimal, even for a kid.
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Old January 28, 2019, 09:33 PM   #28
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I will toss in a vote for 243. And a big caution about a lever in 30-30. Small hands have a tough time letting the hammer down gently on a loaded chamber. If anything slips and someone is on the wrong end of the rifle at the time....it will likely be you. My first hunting rifle was a lever in 30-30, but Idaho restricted the age to 12 years and older.

My choice for my daughter about 13 years ago was 7-08 in a Weatherby Vanguard youth model. It came with an adult size stock to grow into. I didn't research the recoil, just talked to my buddy at the gun shop. Recoil was more than my 9 year old girl could manage. We got a brake installed. I should have went with the 243, but we were planning to hunt elk and deer and I wasn't comfortable with 243 on elk.
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Old January 28, 2019, 09:45 PM   #29
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kids

I've grown more and more fond of the .243 as a deer round for both kids and adults the more I shoot it. First week of Jan I killed a nice 8 pt out at 250yd plus with my Dad's .243 that came my way after his death. Bamaboy hunted it as a kid, killed 5-6 with it, and it has set idle for the most part since then, till this year, when I hunted it again. The 100 gr Nosler Partition sailed right thru, lopping off the top of the heart in the process.

I'm opposed to traditional 30-30 lever rifles for kids and newbies. Lowering the hammer to half-cock seems a complicated step for many, and many folks these days do not understand the correct process. The lever rifles with the safety address that problem, but I cannot warm up to them either, though they are no doubt "safer", at least in the eyes of the tort lawyers.

Bamaboy killed his first two whitetails with a .223 bolt rifle and quality bonded bullets. He was well prepared with me coaching, there is no doubt a proper bullet in .223, and picking shots, can take deer, but I really cannot in good faith suggest the .223 as a deer round, there are better choices of caliber.

Nor do I like the idea of starting a kid with an AR, magazine or not. That may be an appearance thing, and yes, I suppose I should get over it. I have an AR, and am considering building another in 6.5 Grendel exclusively to deer hunt with (probably won't happen). And if someone capable wants to hunt with an AR in the appropriate caliber, great. But somehow, junior with the AR doesn't ring true to me.

What does seem like a good idea is some type of bolt rifle in 6.5 Grendel, or as an alternative, 7.62 x 39mm. The Ruger American Ranch is available in either caliber these days and would be an extremely mild, but effective deer killer in either caliber. Affordable too. I hunt a Ruger lightweight M77 in the x39mm chambering and have no hesitation using it inside 150 yds on deer, and do so frequently. Similarly, the new Howa Mini-Action rifle in 6.5 Grendel and the featherweight barrel should be a joy to hunt as well, for a kid or an adult. They run $500 bucks or so if you can find them, but the LW version is feather like.

Weight is an issue with kids.....the weight of the firearm and their ability to manage it. When you get the firearm down to a weight that a 7-8 yr old can handle, a serious caliber like 7mm-08 is a real kicker as others have noted. Even in a full size 8-9 lb rifle, I would not start a kid on a 7mm-08.
Junior needs to be able to manage the rifle away from the bench or the shooting house rail. The single shot H&R rifles were good for that.
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Old January 28, 2019, 09:47 PM   #30
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Al: did you end up trying any of the reduced recoil rounds for the 7-8?
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Old January 28, 2019, 09:54 PM   #31
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Ranger: that's a good point, re: the hammer on a 30-30. I tend to think we overshoot at lots of animals, so I consider the .243 a solid deer round, even from a compact rifle.
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Old January 28, 2019, 10:16 PM   #32
Troy800
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I bought my daughter a Tikka T3 lite 243. She starting shooting around 12. I handloaded for it and started with 58 gr V max to practice and loaded 85 gr partitions for deer hunting. Works great on our Nebraska whitetail. These loads are amaizingly accurate but it don't like any loads above 90gr.

One other thought is a 270 Win if you handload. Factory loads may be too heavy. Not my first thought for a kid but I have been experimenting with a 110 gr TTSX loads. My first loads were light and so was the recoil but plenty of energy for deer. I would say these light loads recoil were about the same as the loads in my daughters 243. But that was also out of my Rem 700, a little more weight to absorb the recoil.

Last edited by Troy800; January 28, 2019 at 10:46 PM.
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Old January 29, 2019, 01:43 PM   #33
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Quote:
did you end up trying any of the reduced recoil rounds for the 7-8?
No I did not. Haven't seen them in the local stores.
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Old January 29, 2019, 02:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
No I did not. Haven't seen them in the local stores.
I've occasionally seen reduced recoil ammo (Remington and Hornady) in stores, but not enough that I would want to count on them for regular resupply. Likely something you'll just have to order.
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Old January 29, 2019, 02:53 PM   #35
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Doyle: I actually emailed Remington this morning to see what the deal is. No one online has the 7-8 in stock. If it's not going to be made regularly, that's a non-starter. (The reviews I've read of the Hornady are much more mixed and just based on the #s, it doesn't seem to manage nearly as much.)
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Old January 29, 2019, 03:47 PM   #36
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Academy Outdoors seems to have both available (but the Remington is just listed as 120gr instead of Managed Recoil). Other sites I normally buy from seem to be out. Seems to be a lot less available in general than when I was buying ammo before deer season. It is likely just that inventories are low this time of year.
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Old January 29, 2019, 05:13 PM   #37
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Just heard back from Remington. The managed recoil line is totally discontinued.
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Old January 29, 2019, 09:18 PM   #38
big al hunter
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Time to start reloading....make your own light recoil ammo. More accurate too!
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Old January 30, 2019, 03:52 AM   #39
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hammers and first centerfires

We have a .357 mag carbine, (no safety) an early Marlin and its mild manners seemed like a good first step up from .22's when he learning to shoot. But I was suspicious of the boy dealing with the hammer, and some dry practice aforehand confirmed my fears.....managing that hammer was just to much of a trick for a kid. What we ended up doing was shooting the rifle as a single shot, with me loading and passing the cocked rifle (safely mind you) to him for a shot. And we always shot if the rifle was loaded. No trying to lower the hammer. With single loaded .38 WC the little carbine was a great centerfire starter, UNDER VERY CONTROLLED conditions. Same with bamawife, petite as she is, the .357 carbine seemed ideal. But she could not get the deal with lowering the hammer to half cock .

What worked just fine as a stepping stone for both was a .223 Mini Mauser bolt rifle. Engage safety and open bolt, snick in 4 cartridges, close bolt. Prepare for shot and press one off. Easy. The 7.62x39 bolt was next and it seemed a better killer than .223 on deer. By that time the Savage 110 .243 was not a struggle and he shot it well also.

Now I have to race him for the .308 Hog Rifle, if I can coax him from the girlfriend!!!!!!!!
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Old January 30, 2019, 07:12 AM   #40
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First, there's a difference between a "kid" and a "youth"(in my book anyway). I don't see a need to "start" a kid with a tiny kid sized rifle. A short stock? Of course but not a short, light, harder to shoot, harder recoiling rifle. Surely, you don't expect a kid to carry the rifle far?
A "full sized" rifle with short stock is a better beginners' choice. Carry the gun to the stand and set it on a support. I don't condone the idea of dragging a kid to the woods, parking him next to a tree, and walking away. That's the best way to teach a kid to dislike hunting.
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Old January 30, 2019, 08:37 AM   #41
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I don't have any problem if folks want to buy their kid(s) a youth model. I'm personally looking for a compact regular size (20-22" barrel instead of 24-26" and slightly shorter LOP). But my hunch is that no one in this thread would just leave a 7 year old alone with a loaded rifle...
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Old January 30, 2019, 07:24 PM   #42
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Went through the same thing 2 years ago. We ended up with a ruger american ranch in 223. He took his first deer with it and loves to shoot it. Now at age 10 he likes to shoot his moms 260 but only for a couple shots. That 223 though he will sit behind untill i get tired of handing him more ammo.
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Old January 30, 2019, 07:31 PM   #43
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Update: got a really good deal on a compact 7-08. We'll give it a shot and see if it's too much gun. If so, it'll go in the safe for a couple years and we'll be prepared for later.
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Old January 30, 2019, 08:11 PM   #44
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"...AR15 in..." Yeah. Keeping in mind that an AR doesn't require a 20 round mag to function. Those aren't legal for hunting in most places anyway. Mind you, any semi-auto will deal with any recoil issue. So will a 20 gauge semi-auto slug gun.

Huh?
Who told you that?

I have 5 round and 10 round mags for mine and they work just fine. Perfectly in fact.
In Wyoming I can use any size legally, but I like the short ones best for hunting.
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Old January 30, 2019, 08:46 PM   #45
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Good deal Clockwork. In addition to Hornady Lite, there are a couple other manufacturers making 7mm-08 with 120gr ammo. That lighter bullet in itself should help a little with recoil.
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Old January 31, 2019, 12:19 AM   #46
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Average size 8 YO would have a hard time getting around a stock, with the exception of an AR. I started mine at 9 with a pellet gun, then graduated to 22LR at 11.
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Old January 31, 2019, 03:09 AM   #47
bamaranger
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kids

The OP states 7-8 yrs old. That is a kid to me. My 7-8 yr old kid could manage a .22 Cricket (with .22 CB longs!) at that age, but not any other type of full size firearm. He missed a lot of squirrels!!!!! A Win-37 in .410 was a load for him, and .410 recoil was more than he cared for too. I didn't write it down, but at 8-9 we were likely experimenting with the Marlin as described, and I bought the Mini-Mauser .223 at about the same time. He shot the .223 off the bench, very well at about age 10. He killed his first deer age 11, off shooting sticks, at about 75 yds.

All of this was very highly supervised. Now the kid outshoots me.
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Old January 31, 2019, 01:01 PM   #48
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For a 7-8 year old kid, I'd suggest a .22. Nope, can't hunt deer with it, so take him hunting for stuff he can shoot with a .22. He should have a couple hundred small game under his belt before going after something bigger. And a .22 will always be useful later in life, so it's not a waste. Maybe you've already done this; just pointing out the obvious.
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Old January 31, 2019, 01:24 PM   #49
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Possum: have a .17hmr for that purpose and for just learning to shoot.
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Old January 31, 2019, 09:06 PM   #50
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I bought my son a 7-08 compact Ruger American. He is 8yoa. He is 5ft 1in, so he is a big 8. I loaded him some starting load 120gr. He didn't like the recoil. I threw it in the lathe and put a brake on it. He still didn't like recoil. Put an aggressive brake on it. He said "Daddy, Can I just use my .223 another year?".
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