Price too high, rules too stringent

[Roamin_Wade]

I need to vent a little bit here. I am so sick and tired of these hunting prices in Texas! $2500 dollars a gun for a lease is just too much damn money. It is cost prohibitive. There is this preconceived notion that Texas hunts are the cream of the creame of deer hunting but there are bigger white tails in Nebraska that put any Texas deer to shame but nobody wants to hunt in a place like Nebraska! This baby-boomer generation is to blame. They have had the best lives out of any generation both dead or extant. Jobs were easy to get. Money went further and they hunted for next to nothing in there younger days and then when they got older and were then the land owners, they made prices way way too high in their capitalist fervor to make as much money as they could and now it’s simply a class system where folks like me can’t afford it because some corporation is willing to pay X-amount of money for the whole lease to take customers to. I’m trying to get my kids to at least get to hunt and kill a deer before they are grown like my father did for me but I just can’t afford it. It makes me sick and very mad.
Thanks for letting me vent. :~/

[buck460XVR]

Biggest reason hunter numbers are dwindling is because they have no place to hunt. Biggest change in hunting over the last 30 years is the amount of folks that pay for a place to hunt, either thru a lease, buying their own land expressly for hunting, or for hunting a high/low fence ranch. Demand and availability is is what drives the cost of anything.

[Blindstitch]

All I have to say is good luck. I have a cousin somewhere in Texas and he does the grunt work at a lease maintaining things so he gets a reduced rate and connects on a good deer every few years. Up here in Milwaukee I have a handful of public lands within an hour of me and have never bagged a buck in this state lazy deer hunting in the last 5 years. Yet I go up to Northern Michigan where there's a lot more public land and pay the non resident license and fill my freezer.

For me I had to go where the money and jobs are otherwise I'd still live in Northern Michigan. But down here I have way more pheasant and waterfowl opportunities that I didn't have up north.

Oh Lazy deer hunting is basically me putting in time in the woods. Michigans firearm deer season starts before Wisconsins so I usually tag out up there and my freezer only holds one deer. Additional deer are given away so if nobody wants a deer I don't pull the trigger. The 33 pheasants and 8 ducks I bagged this year were having a hard time dealing with the 8 point I bagged in crossbow season and my dad had an ear to ear smile when I gave him the 10 point (my biggest buck ever) I shot rifle hunting with him.

Ever thought about taking the kids out for something else like birds or hogs? Not sure the opportunity there but it's something.

[jmr40]

Different customs in different parts of the country. There are a lot of Texans here and I have some family that lives in Texas. The Texans I know are awful proud of the fact they live there and don't mind telling you so. But I've driven across the state from east to west and from as far north as Amarillo and as far south a San Antonio and I haven't seen any place I'd want to live. The lack of hunting opportunities is part of the reason.

To be as big as it is Texas has less public land for any purpose than most any state. But, I think Texas is a good place to live in order to make a lot of money. The opportunities are there. I guess land owners are taking advantage of the others making money hand over fist for hunting rights. They want a piece of the pie too. But those not making the big money are left with no place to hunt.

[Mobuck]

Market rules the price. As long as people have so much money to spend, there will be high priced hunting leases.
Heck in north MO, even land prices are ruled by recreational buyers. Those guys with mid-six figure incomes have no problems spending $1500-2500 per acre to buy marginal land just to hunt on while a real farmer can't pencil a profit from the same ground.

[std7mag]

Ohio also has some truly remarkable deer. I've seen some big ones here in PA too.
I think numbers were down this year in PA. Mostly due to weather.

I want to elk hunt at least once before i die. Likelyhood of that happening in PA is slim to none. So i'm looking to go to Colorado. Price for non resident tag ends up being $691.
And i haven't gotten to Colorado yet.
By the time it's all said and done i expect it to cost about $3,000.
And that does not include me actually getting an elk and shipping the meat and or antlers back.

[taylorce1]

Is that just a deer lease for $2500 or is it for year around access where you can shoot other game? You can usually hunt on military bases for no charge, but it might be managed a bit differently in TX than here in CO. We have a draw system so you can't just go to the store and buy a deer tag unless it's a leftover you have to successfullydraw a tag before you can hunt a military installation in CO. However, I'd start researching Ft Hood and other bases in TX and see what you find out.

[Art Eatman]

The Republic of Texas retained ownership of its land when it joined the US as a state. The State of Texas then had its own homestead system of privatizing its lands. Among other things it traded three million acres of land which became the XIT Ranch for the $3 million needed to build the state capitol building.

Always remember that the ad valorem tax man does not care whether or not the farmer or rancher makes a profit. He always has his hand out, even in the drouth years. Some years, only the deer-lease money is the profit--as I saw around Sanderson, Texas in the 1990s when all the livestock was sold off from many tens of thousands of acres.

The amount of land is fixed. Populations grow. Some percentage of that population is of high income. Those who hunt must then bid against others for access to hunting lands. Think of it as a slow-moving auction over the years.

If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision.

[Roamin_Wade]

Houston area is where I live and it is the armpit of Texas. Muddy water,ultra hot in the summer and mosquitos. I’d rather live to the west, at least as far as Austin. Texas doesn’t have as much public land because it was its own country for 9 years before joining the USA. The King Ranch has been in that family since Spain had Texas. They actually own the beach section where their property is. Nobody else in Texas can own the beach like that.
I know about supply and demand but it just sucks. Plus all the leases are where you hunt your stand and that’s it. Gone are the days where the stand selection was decided by a hand of poker and if nobody else was there, they could hunt any stand on the place.

[Roamin_Wade]

You know what? Screw it! I’m going to just start hunting cows! Those things are everywhere and they won’t run that far after they get shot. I’ve just got to figure out a way to get them into the back of the truck!!! ;~)

[reynolds357]

I feel for you. Even here in GA, hunting land is starting to come at a premium. The timber companies used to lease their land pretty cheap. Now they charge high prices. But, I guess if you can get $50 per acre per year, you would be crazy to lease it for $10. Another sad fact is that most of these "baby boomer", yuppies you talk about take much better care of the leased land than the locals do.

[Roamin_Wade]

Roger that Reynolds357. It’s pretty certain that any county that touches Harris County (where Houston is) can’t be trusted to not be overpopulated with hunters, locals that hunt all year round and just don’t care about how old the deer is, or things like that. Too many dumbass rednecks in these adjacent counties. I’m not cursing them for being rednecks but too often the term “good ol boys” doesn’t apply to many of the rednecks like it used to. Said plainer, these tattooed white trash meth smoking Mountain Dew drinking trailer living sorts with about 3 teeth. That’s the sort I’m referring to. I’m not like that but I do have one tattoo and of course it is Confederate in nature, but that’s the only one I have...><

[Art Eatman]

The King Ranch boundary is the Intracoastal Waterway. Padre Island above the Laguna Atascosa WMA is National Seashore; below are the privately owned properties of South Padre.

I imagine the national forest lands of east Texas get pretty crowded.

[kenny53]

I feel bad for you guys. I don't hunt anymore but never had to pay to hunt. Utah is mostly BLM land or National Forest. You just park, grab your gun, and hunt. I don't think out of state tags are that much. I know you would be welcome here.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Just saying:
No benefit in letting a stranger freely hunt a land owner property when a insignificant amount of >leased< hunting area quite often will pay the total Property Tax owed that year by the farmer/rancher. That's what I call: a sweet business having another pay for nothing in return.

[GeauxTide]

I'm part of that generation and I worked my ass off for 55 years. Yeah, I paid $350 for a 7mm Weatherby LH, but I made 500/mo in 1970. A lot of the newer generations also see Social Security as an entitlement. My wife and I paid over 100k into SS during our full time careers and we're still paying SS. BTW, Medicare A, B, and Supplemental cost us $750/mo - double over our FT employment. Hunting is grand in Alabama.

[bamaranger]

I couldn't/won't do $2500 bucks on a deer lease. But I am in two leases here in AL and have been in at least one or another for 25 years. but my costs are not even a third of that. , But, most likely, next license year, 2019-2020, I will drop the largest lease, (3800 acres) though it holds a lot of memories, know it well, taken a lot of game and have some choice spots and patterns identified.

Primary reason is cost. Lease prices have steadily risen. To keep the lease affordable to average folks, we have had to take on more and more members. There are now at least 3 times more fellas on the land (I heard 40) than there were when I first started there. Used to be I could spring gobbler hunt and never have to deal with another hunter, except maybe on the first weekend. Those days are over, and deer season is worse.

Also, the owners have been steadily cutting the big timber, and planting back pines. Once the pines come up, it is extremely hard to hunt the pine plantations, just to darn thick. And turkeys will not hold in the thick pines, there is no thinning, they are just THICK. So in addition to more hunters on the lease, there is less huntable land, especially for gobblers.

Finally, a conflict has developed concerning a critical 200 ac. that allow access to the rest of the tracts. That 200 got leased away from us by the narrow minded owner, despite long years of trouble free hunting. The new 200 ac club is run by idiots, who immediately started trouble, blocking roads and trails, and trespassing onto what remained of our club. We had to get the law and the court house involved to gain access to our leases, and the whole thing got redneck ugly. I will not hunt under those conditions.

Public land is still an option, and there is enough close to me to be viable. Gun hunts are crowded and prone to attract idiots as well, but bowhunting, especially later on in the season, seldom has any conflict. Problem is, I cannot cover ground and climb trees like I used to. Guess I'll just have to learn to hunt smarter, not harder. And I plan and remaining in my other, smaller lease, (1500 ac) though my success and understanding of it is not as complete. It's nearby and convenient, and offers some soft hunts, which are attractive these days. But prices and resultantly, membership, are increasing there as well.

Texas. You read and hear about their hog problem. So couple of pals and myself decided we'd be more and happy to help them out. Hasn't happened yet, there is money in them hogs. I don't know how much money is lost in crop damage by hogs, but land owners are sure trying to get as much back as they can on fees to non resident hog hunters. I don't see a TX hog hunt in my future.

Honestly, its ALL gotten expensive. License and permit fees, ammo, firearms, components, clothing, ...everything. Take note of the cost of the items featured in the Rifleman and American Hunter. You will seldom see a firearm reviewed that is not solidly four figures. I fear my sport and hobby is becoming the pastime of only the wealthy, or at least those with more money than me.

[Old Stony]

I guess it's hard for me to really understand all the problems folks have hunting in Texas. I moved to East Texas 15 yrs. ago, and have hunted more here than any other place I've lived...including Nebraska, New Mexico, and California. I have never paid for a lease, but I think a guy's approach to hunting in general can make a big difference. Yes there is a lot of privately owned land here, and lots of the owners are friendly people that will grant you access for hunting hogs and deer....I normally don't run around with a rifle in my truck more than 7 days a week.
I can't imagine driving up to a stranger's house and expecting him to just let me go run around on his land freely. Once you get to know folks it's a whole different story. I sort of made my whole retirement entertainment package into hunting experiences. During my time in Texas I've killed way over 1,000 hogs, as I treat landowners like I think they would appreciate, and help them with managing their lands in any way I can. Texas has lots of friendly people and I never have a problem hunting lots of properties.

[FITASC]

Sounds like you need to go to Nebraska then..............(Or Colorado, Utah, Missouri, etc.)

[thallub]

Oklahoma has very little public land. Additionally, many of the wildlife management areas have restrictions on firearms used outside of deer season.

Over the years i have obtained permission to hunt a few farms/ranches. i've hunted one ranch on and off for 40 years. The place is overrun with squirrels, rabbits, turkeys and deer. Deer die of old age because the owners don't allow deer hunting. They don't like loud guns so i hunt with a .410 shotgun or a .22 LR there.

Deer hunting leases usually come with restrictions. Many owners run cattle: With cattle its often impossible to run feeders or plant game plots. i won't be party a lease where there's cattle.

Be on the lookout for marginal land that can be purchased without breaking the bank. A friend owns eight acres that are strategically situated between huge wheat fields and the creek. Dozens of deer tramp through that small place every day. My son owns about 20 acres like that NW of Houston.

For years i neglected my own property by concentrating on our deer lease. Had not hunted our property for many years. Hunted that place during holiday doe season; deer all over the place. Saw a couple nice bucks too.

[Art Eatman]

The US story: Wages haven't kept up with price increases--whether it's groceries or deer leases.

I recall when ten of us leased a 7,000 acre ranch for $300 each. But gasoline was twenty-eight cents a gallon, back then.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by Art Eatman

If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision.

So.........you're saying hunting should only be for the rich and privileged? Not being able to justify $2500 a year for a lease makes one stupid and/or foolish? IMHO, That mindset is asking for the total loss of all hunting as we know it.

As I said in my first post in this thread, Lack of access to decent hunting areas is the #1 reason hunters numbers are declining. I don't know how things work in Texas, but here in Wisconsin the decline in hunters means a decline in license sales. Decline in license sales means a decline in monies available for habitat and it's improvement, stocking and enforcement of game law. This is not only on public lands, but private also. Old farts with money to burn for a blind someone else set up over a bait station is not going to allow regular hunting to survive. When hunting costs become prohibitive to young hunters just starting out, what happens when they move on to something else(and they do) and those old farts with money to burn die off? What happens to deer populations when money is too short for enforcement and poachers have the upper hand? We already have many areas in the state where deer numbers are way above the desirable levels. Lack of access and lack of hunters makes so those numbers keep growing and crop damage and deer/vehicle collisions become more prevalent. Yep, hunting will only get better for those folks with deep pockets, but how long will they go as costs to hunt escalate, before even they say enough is enough.

I have been fortunate in my life. I have around 300,000 acres of public land in three directions, within 25 miles of me. Go a tad north and there is even more. I also have had the privilege of hunting a multitude of private land parcels over the years, and still do. Not everyone has that luck. Especially young hunters and hunters new to an area. Some states don't have good land available for public hunting or it's very limited. Sometimes that choice in careers makes the choice of where we live for us. Sometimes young parents think that $2500 a year is better spent on their kids than on dad's hunting. 18 years down the road, Dad doesn't have the desire to hunt anymore and those kids never got the chance to try. Does that make the Dad stupid or foolish? No....makes him a parent. How about that young hunter trying to save that 20% down payment on a house or trying to pay off their student loan? Odds are they are making good money....just have different priorities. Stupid and foolish? One of the biggest problem I see in America today is the "I got mine!" attitude. Ain't always a case of being smarter or better, but many times just luck of the draw, who you know or being in the right place at the right time. I got a lot of friends that lost half of their 401Ks thanks to Bush. They figured on having a lot more disposable income, but thru no fault of their own, now have to watch their pennies. Stupid and foolish?

We all know how the principles of supply and demand work. Basic Freshmen Civics. It's just unfortunate for many that it affects them so severely when it comes to having a decent place to hunt. Especially when the choice is between that and a decent place to live, braces for the daughter of a safe vehicle for the wife and kids to drive. Yeah, I got mine, but it don't mean I look down my nose at those that don't and belittle them. Doing so, says a lot about ones ego.

[FITASC]

So.........you're saying hunting should only be for the rich and privileged? Not being able to justify $2500 a year for a lease makes one stupid and/or foolish? IMHO, That mindset is asking for the total loss of all hunting as we know it.

There's plenty of opportunities; however they might not be a $5 gas ride away. Plenty of open public land; you just might have to work a little harder than in the "good old days".

[Ruga Booga]

"If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision."

What a stupid jerk thing to say. I wish this forum had a like button so I could give post #22 a big ol thumbs up

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by FITASC

There's plenty of opportunities; however they might not be a $5 gas ride away. Plenty of open public land; you just might have to work a little harder than in the "good old days".

I would hope this was the case. But from the OP's statement's it does not appear that way. Per example.....

I’m trying to get my kids to at least get to hunt and kill a deer before they are grown like my father did for me but I just can’t afford it.

Even with good access to private land to hunt, I still enjoy the challenge of the hunt on public land. Going behind someone else with my bird dog and getting a rooster they walked by means more to me than going to a place where no one else hunts. While I have good success on public land for deer, for the most part, I do have to lower my standards and expectations in order for it to be successful. Where I let 8s and small tens walk on private land, they would be considered trophies on most of the public land around me.

Originally Posted by Ruga Booga

"If I want to hunt but cannot afford the price of a deer lease, it means that I did not choose an adequately remunerative career. I had the freedom of choice, but made a wrong decision."

What a stupid jerk thing to say.

Kinda what hit me. Here's a dad who would love to see his kids have a successful hunt(like most of us dads), yet is frustrated because he cannot afford it. Then he is told by a stranger that knows nothing about him..... "too bad, you just made poor life choices!"

Originally Posted by Art Eatman

The US story: Wages haven't kept up with price increases--whether it's groceries or deer leases.

I recall when ten of us leased a 7,000 acre ranch for $300 each. But gasoline was twenty-eight cents a gallon, back then.

Last time gas prices averaged 28 cents a gallon was back in 1966 when the average wage was under $3 a hour. $300 woulda been three weeks take home pay or more than month's payment on an average home. The value of that $300 would be about $2400 in today's market. Seems to most folks, it was just as prohibitive back then as it is today.