Tooling up for 30-06

[vts]

I'm about to start reloading 30-06, for the first time, and im looking for a die kit.

I would like micrometer seating die. Just to make changing bullet and adjusting oal faster.

Also I have heard wonderful this full length size die with bushings.

What du you use?
Is the bushing style die worth the ekstra costs? Any pitfalls?

[Nosler guy]

Neck dies are good for brass life, higher case capacities and sometimes a bit more velocity. Some people have issues with concentricity from bushing dies, I don't use them so no personal experience to share. I would consider getting an ogive comparator for your calipers a priority. Oal's can vary quite a bit from bullet to bullet. You can also sort the block setting ( base to ogive of the bullet) for more consistency.


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[vts]

I have never used an ogive comparator. Instead I use toolmakers dye, and sett the bullet depper til the marks just disappear. This establish zero bullet jump. A ogive comparator would speed up the process, especially with a micrometer seating die. I'll add it to my list.

What do you mean by "block setting"

[F. Guffey]

vts.

I have never used an ogive comparator. Instead I use toolmakers dye, and sett the bullet deeper till the marks just disappear.

I am not a fan o starting new reloaders off in a dead run. I believe new reloaders should start with standard dies; my opinion; if a reloader gets good with standard dies they will not need all the other. I am sure I have collet dies, I do not use them but I am sure I have them just in case.

I can size a case with 26 different length between the shoulder of the case to the case head; that would include cases for short chambers, that would also include case length for long chambers from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. Imagine: All of that with one die.

F. Guffey

[vts]

I appreciate the concern. I do have some experience. I have reloaded 243win and 300 win mag. I just got my old reloading kit back on the bench, after twenty years of shooting factory ammo.

I'm new to reloading 30-06 and high end dies.
I will get an ogive comparator and a micrometer seating die.
Not sure I'm sold on bushing dies. It seems the only benefit would be better fit between case neck and die. I turn my necks to get uniform wall thickness, not sure it would be worth the ekstra costs.
I might get it any way, just to try something new.
Hornady Match Grade dies (item#544339) looks good.

[mikld]

I agree with Mr. Guffy on starting out K.I.S.S. with a new-to-you cartridge. I have been reloading 30-06 for only 8 years, for a Garand, and 7 years for my 308 bolt gun (and 30 years loading handgun ammo and 28 years .223 and 30-30 and 7.62x39). I haven't seen a need for micrometer adjustable seating dies, as I can adjust seating depth to .001" with the standard dies. (I have gotten several 7/8" groups with my 308 Ruger with standard dies, sans micro adjustments, and determined seating depth with a brass rod and calipers). But, I'm a tool nut also and if I think I want a tool to make my reloads better, I'll get one. My experiences are mine and reloading is so personal, they may have worth to you or not...

[T. O'Heir]

"...changing bullet and adjusting oal faster..." OAL should be the same regardless of the bullet weight. That'll save you more time than any gadget. 3.340" is the max OAL for .30-06 with any bullet weight.
And no ogives are involved with OAL. OAL is measured from the pointy part to the flat part.
Anyway, loading for .30-06 is no different than loading for the .243 or .300 Mag. Use the same brand of dies you do for those. (Not that the brand matters much.) set 'em up the same way you did the dies you have and load.
Never seen any need for micrometer dies myself. You don't need "match" dies or ogive comparators or to turn the necks either.
What's an "ekstra" cost? Just curious.

[Unclenick]

The same COL for all bullet shapes? Not necessarily so. The 7 cal tangent ogive shape that military M1 and M2 FMJ bullets use have small meplats. Modern hollow point match bullets, including those with the same tangent ogive, like the 175 grain Sierra MatchKing, have wider tips so they have to be seated to a shorter COL for the ogive to be the same distance off the lands. That's why Sierra's recommendation is 3.329" for them. A bullet with a shorter ogive radius will be closer to the lands if you seat it to 3.340". The 150 grain Hornady FMJ has a short secant ogive and a boattail, so if you seat it to 3.340, you not only may already be in the lands of some chambers, the case neck may have too little grip for any but the most delicate chambering. This is why they recommend 3.185" COL for it. These days there is so much variety, blanket statements about all bullets the same weight no longer apply.


Vts,

When I started loading .30-06 for match shooting long ago, I had a set of Redding standard dies and very quickly learned they would not give me a finished round with consistent or low bullet runout. TIR up to 0.008" was pretty common with them. Then I switched to the expensive Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die. It has a micrometer deth adjustment, yes, but more importantly a case aligning sleeve and floating seater ram that self-centers. TIR dropped by a factor of 4X immediately, and I never looked back. I shell out for those in every rifle caliber I use.

A couple of the top match shooters who've been on the board in the past have said the cat's meow is a solid resizing die with the neck custom honed to the right diameter for your brass. Forster offers that service. IIRC, you send them some sample cases fired in your chamber to measure and they will open the neck of one of their standard sizing dies up to just size your necks the same way a correct size bushing would do, but with zero chance of misalignment occurring.

[RC20]

As you know your way around reloading I will weight in (pun) on what I like for 30-06.

For seating I am conflicted between the RCBS Competition seater that does any 30 caliber you can adjust it to (308, 30-06 and 7.5 Swiss so far)

I like the Forrester a bit better op wise than the RCBS, but its caliber specific.

What I have yet to hear is a well done test that says which is the better of the two. Possibly the Forrester as its less "universal" but that may be down to the good bench rest types that can see it.

I also like the Forester sizing die, FL. I don't bother with the neck thing. Maybe someday but I don't think it would pay at my level.

Its floating pin seems to work a bit better, but I found to my regret you have to make sure there is no military brass in there, even with the crimps cleaned out that was enough to break that shaft, not the pin, the shaft.

Unfortunately Forester is not as nice as RCBS so I had to buy another one. RCBS will just send you a new one and tell you to read the directions.

I did, but had not realized I had mixed in 3 HXP cases with my regular ones, never happens until you start using a new die that won't tolerate it!

And I will add I like the Lyman Electronics scale with the build in trickler a lot.

[old roper]

This is from Berger on base to ogive

http://www.bergerbullets.com/wp-cont...13/03/COAL.pdf

[Nosler guy]

Vts,

Block setting is basically the base of bullet to ogive of bullet. It's usually measured in a block of metal with a tapered carbide insert, caliber specific, that stops the bullet at the ogive when you drop it in. You then measure the distance from the top of the block to the base of the bullet. This measurement is very important for consistency with seating depths since your seating die will contact near the ogive of the bullet when seating. You will find different lots of the same bullets can have 5 to 20 thou variation which can change everything even if they are seated to the same ogive distance from your lands/leade. You can check the block with an ogive comparator. You will often find random bullets in the same box that have funky ogive lengths, I use those for foulers. I also label the block setting on each box and find that .003 variation tolerance is a good benchmark.

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[44 AMP]

I'm new to reloading 30-06 and high end dies.

It's your money, but I have to ask, do you have a rifle, and a use, that would actually benefit from high end dies, and all the precision measurement stuff the internet is in love with today???

Every rifle does not benefit the same from precisely seating bullets to just off the lands.

If you got acceptable results loading .243 and .300 Mag, those same techniques/tools will do the same for the .30-06.

(you didn't say you were looking to produce match grade ammo, if you are, that's a different matter)

I shoot hunting rifles, and milsurps, not match guns, and have found no advantage to making ammo more accurate than the gun that fires it.

Of course, one has to figure out what is, and is not wasted effort for each individual rifle and load combination, but that's part of the fun, now isn't it?

[Reloadron]

I suggest you just get yourself a set of full length loading dies. When I began loading 30-06 Springfield the selection was limited but Lee and RCBS did just fine and later came the RCBS Comp die set with the micrometer bullet seater. Unless you are loading for match competition and have the rifle to shoot target all you really need is everyday full length resizing dies, the fancy stuff can come later.

Ron

[Don Fischer]

I assume vts already reloads. How tuff can setting up for 30-06 really be. Buy a set of dies. Or is he just getting into reloading and this is the first time? I gotta tell ya, some people go way out of their way to learn reloading!

[vts]

I really like to pick people's brains. I learn something every time.
I left out that I will be reloading for several rifles. I suspect that one of them is capable of match precision. I have gotten 11millimeter groups at 100meter with. Norma Kalahari in this rifle.
I have also had problems with oal measurement and found I had to change oal in order to get consistent bullet jump. Ogive comparator would make this easier.
Also I will load for hunting and target shooting, minimum two bullets for each rifle.

Full length size die with bushings sounds like a good idea. I'll probably get one just to try it out. So we can conclude that I will get som sort of match grade dies.
I have a Hornady dealer near by so probably Hornady.
How do you determine the correct bushing?

Back in the days I got good result reloading 300wm, and bad result reloading 243win. Thinking about the problem I had with my 243win, I wonder if I might have used to light weight bullets or if the rifling twist might be to fast. I'll look into it.

Again I really appreciate your feedback on this subject.

"Ekstra" is norwegian and translate to extra.

[RC20]

I would get the set of your choice with the Micrometer dial on the seater. I don't know if Hornady has the Micrometer seater (looked it up, they have an add on)

RCBS is a good general one as it can do any 30 caliber (seating)

I am not a Hornady die fan, nothing against them quality wise.

Dealing with the company is a pain, RCBS if you have a problem they just send you a part of take the die back and fix or replace it.

Hornady bullets are very good.

I would go with either a Forster Match die or whatever they call them with the Micrometer seater or if you are not going to seat other 30 caliber bullets, or if you want to seat more different 30 caliber bullets, the RCBS competition die set with the side open slot Micrommeter seater which is a tad nicer than the Forster though it may not be quite as accurate a seater, we are talking the difference between 1/2 and 1/14 groups there though, if that. Both I think are good for sub 5/8.

Redding and the like are more costly for no gain that I can see.

[F. Guffey]

What du you use?

Tooling up for 30-06

I start out with a forming die, and then there is the feeler gage and I use the depth gage/micrometer. With the depth micrometer all of my seating dies are micro adjust.

F. Guffey

[RC20]

I left out that I will be reloading for several rifles. I suspect that one of them is capable of match precision. I have gotten 11millimeter groups at 100meter with. Norma Kalahari in this rifle.

I like the metric reference. Gets the brain working.

Don't change, 11 mm is darned good group in my book.

[supercub99]

I'll throw some more confusion on the fire.....

As to dies, I have had them all in both rifle and pistol and my preference is the Redding for general use, precision grade. RCBS is fine if your just loading and shooting or even hunting, but not all that serious. Lyman is ok as well. Hornady as mentioned is a pain but has some nice features if you can get around the negatives.

Now, if I want a set of really nice dies and I only have one set, and that's for 6.5 Creedmoor, I would go this with Whidden:

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/produ...ing-die-set-2/

You can get them with or without bushings, your choice.

Finally, reloading is a sum of a lot of parts, each adding a small piece to the ultimate outcome. Some things you can skimp on and the add is miniscule, others make a much bigger difference.

I like the Lyman M dies for setting the neck size vs the full length resizing one step does all. I take the de-primer out along with the neck expander and do those in separate operations with a rcbs de-primer and the M die. I feel I get much better consistency that way.

Brass prep is another area where little things add up and you can pick and choose which you want to throw in. Again, most won't make a big difference but will add up.

And lastly, it's about you and your finger, assuming your gun and optics are all up to snuff.

Good luck!

[50 shooter]

Like Unclenick said, I prefer Redding dies for loading most rounds. Yes, they're usually more expensive than other die sets but I find their quality to be better than most.

If you plan on shooting for consistency, you'll want to full length size every time. You'll also want to anneal the necks about every 3 - 5 reloads. Neck sizing only is fine for bolt guns and you can get away with it for a couple reloads but you'll have to full length size eventually.

So having a few dies for reloading the same caliber is usually a good thing and will make life easier in the long run. Where are you in CA? You never know, another board member could be close and you might be able to borrow a set of dies.

[old roper]

vts,
I use bushing dies for my hunting/varmint rifles. I shoot few tight neck rifles so need the bushing for those.

Wilson been making them since late 20's. http://www.lewilson.com/

Only reason I started, just want little more control on loaded dia and I have same problems working up a load some things work other don't.

You could load standard die then get Sinclair expander mandrel .001" under bullet dia or .002". You need die for those mandrel and if your cleaning up necks you may just have to buy the mandrels.

[Don Fischer]

I've got two or three set's of Redding dies, love them. But their cost is way outside what I can afford. Most of mine are RCBS with a few lyman, Lee and Herter's thrown in. Haven't used my Herter dies in more years than I can remember. My other dies all do pretty much the same thing! Having never used competition dies what they might gain you I've no clue. But you may find you can get great accuracy with old run of the mill dies by simply changing bullet's, match bullet's can be amazing IF you have a rifle to take advantage of them and IF you have the skills to shoot much better than average. Without that, dies won't make a difference but, those Redding dies are hands down my favorite.

The best group I ever shot was with my 25-06 loaded with RCBS dies and using 100gr SMK. .111" for 5 shots c to c. I've never came close to that again or before. I have a 6.5x06 that with 140gr SMK hangs around 1/4" all day. But those lesser mark's of the small group come in baby steps. For me I think I wiggled just right! Never tried it again so I just show people the small group and call it good, bit deceptive! :-)

All of my rifle' except two will go under an inch day in and day out. My 6.5x55 is just the same as I got it new other than a trigger adjustment, shoot right at 1 1/4". My new 243, a Mossberg Patriot I've just started fooling with and it stay's around 1-1 1'4 inch. I'd done nothing at all with it.

Point is it take's a lot more than a set of dies to get a rifle shooting well. I know a lot of people, most, think getting a new trigger really makes them a better shot, it doesn't. What makes them a better shot related to the trigger is an good understanding and ability to control the trigger, trigger control.

Don't think that you can simply buy your way into better shooting by the tools you but, you can't. I'm also a believer in the KISS treatment. Spend your money on component's and range time!

[supercub99]

Don, Good stuff to add. I think in a lot of this, it boils down to tolerances. Take an off the shelf gun with on the loose end of the range and a die set on the tight end of it's and you have a gap. On the other hand, they may well line up on the same end of their respective tolerances and it's all great. The same goes for factory loaded ammo. How many times have you bought that and found that one brand closes smoothly on a round, the next is a little harder to close...assuming a bolt gun. It all affects accuracy to some degree.
I would suggest if one is going to go higher end with tighter tolerances in their guns then they probably would want to do that in the reloading tools as well.

I appreciate an rcbs die too, used the same one for 42 yrs on a 7mm mag and it shot sub 1" groups all those years, the stars lined up.

[Don Fischer]

Yea, got that. It's has been my understanding that the best die's are cut with the same reamer the chamber is cut with, right after the chamber was cut or maybe just before.

[hooligan1]

I use an RCBS full length resizing die for sizing and depriming, and a Forster Bonanza Benchrest seater die for my 3006.
I have a Redding set also but the ya hoo that had it before me must have sent dirty range brass through it and scratched the insides something terrible, havent taken the time to polish that mess out yet..