(Random) iron sight questions from an AR newbie...

[toppermost]

I like the challenge of shooting with iron sights. Its fun. I might get a 1x scope at some point but I think I will stick to the iron sights for a while. At least until I get "good" with them.

What is the best advice y'all can give me?

I am near sighted, should I wear contacts or eye glasses at the range? What works best?

When you go from the large aperture to the small aperture should I get closer to the sight - this seems to sharpen my POV quite a bit - or should I remain at the same distance?

Is there any reason not to get a smaller front sight post? I like the idea of seeing more of my target "behind" my sight post ...

[Ridge_Runner_5]

As for glasses, yes. I'm terribly near sighted, but only with my right eye. So I wear my glasses when shooting.

As for the aperture, adjust your head to wherever provides the best eye relief for you.

A front sight post is a personal choice. I say go for it if you want to. Nothing wrong with being more accurate.

[kraigwy]

Go with the standard front sight (around .075 or so).

The trick to shooting iron sights is concentrating on the front sight, not the target, not the rear sight. The target should be fuzzy and you'll automaticly center the front sight in the rear sight.

Now if you have trouble concentrating on the front sight. Throw the rifle to your shoulder, measure from your eye to the front sight.

Write that down. Now go to the drug store and find the reading glasses. Find the size that puts your focus at the distance you got from your eye to the front sight.

Those are your new shooting glasses. If after having your shooting eye focued on the target you find you can't see to move your sights or write in your score book go back to the drug store, find the exact same glasses only this time that allows you to focus for reading and what not.

ON this second pair of glasses, pop out the lense for your shooting eye and replace it with the linse from your first set of glasses.

Now to help concentrate with your new shooting glasses, imagine your front sight is on a lever connected to the trigger. As you pull the trigger you are sliding back the front sight. Try slowly squeezing the trigger moving your front sight to the rear.

Now of course we know you can't slide your front sight back and forth with the trigger, but if you try, the front sight is gonna look like its getting bigger and closer. Its not, it just looks like that because you are concentrating on it.

[toppermost]

Thanks, guys!

[RC20]

I would go with a red dot sight.

Irons not much good or fun if you can't see (I can't anymore).

I like my Eotech, but the Trajicon is reputed to be good as well.

Put the dot (or post) on the target and its as good as it gets.

[globemaster3]

Kraig, I think the glasses trick is the most ingenious idea for sight challenged folks I have heard of.

topper, everything Kraig threw at you is what is also still currently taught in the USAF for marksmanship. It works. Spend the time behind the trigger getting comfortable and shoot a bunch.

Next to sight picture, trigger pull is critical. I would also advise to analyze HOW you squeeze the trigger. What Kraig said puts it elloquently. Focus on a smooth squeeze. Make sure you are using that first pad on your finger, the part opposite your fingernail. Don't boogerhook it in the joint. You will find that you can be more consistent in the squeeze that way.

[samsmix]

I'll give you four pieces of valuable advice based on personal experience.

1) Wear contacts most days, as they are harder to rip off than glasses, and provide better periferal vision. Also, no prism effect if your head isn't in the same alignment with the sights.

2) ALWAYS have glasses of the correct perscription on your night stand. ALWAYS.

3) Do some shooting without your "eyeballs" in....just to know what you are capable of.

4) If your eyes remain stable (same perscription) for a number of years, consider corrective surgery. I had PRK three years ago, and I could not be happier with the results: Right eye 20/20, left eye 20/10. Lasik costs less, and you recover faster, but my corneas were thin enough that a well placed punch would have been catastrophic had I gone that route.

I would have been legally blind without glasses/contacts before my surgery.

[Jason_G]

1) Wear contacts most days, as they are harder to rip off than glasses, and provide better periferal vision. Also, no prism effect if your head isn't in the same alignment with the sights.

I'd have to go the opposite way on the contacts vs. glasses issue. Not that I think you are wrong, though. Vision is highly personal, and what works for some might or might not work for others.

For me, if I wear contacts, I do have better peripheral vision, and no glare, etc., but the biggest problems for me are these:

The contacts get coated with protein when I wear them, which clouds vision ever so slightly. For me, this happens even within the course of a day, probably due to eye allergies. I don't notice it much until I try to focus on something small, like a front sight. Then it is blurry. Not overwhelmingly so, but enough to become a nuisance.

The other problem I have with contacts is that they dry out quickly if I don't constantly blink. So if I am all lined up for a shot, and trying to get off a slow, controlled trigger squeeze at a distant target, my contact starts to cloud over and I have to blink, which screws up my visual focus, concentration, the whole nine yards, and I have to start the shot over.

I hate wearing glasses, but have come to the conclusion that I just shoot better with glasses than contacts. I would love to get the surgery done.

Jason

[samsmix]

Jason,

You are right: Vision IS highly personal. I had forgotten about the protein issue, as it did not plague me, but I know it does some folks. It can be mitigated with disposable lenses, but probably not at the extreme levels you are experiencing. And the new (more oxygen permeable) silicone lenses DO cause more glare at night than the older styles. Also, some folks DO complain about dry-feeling eyes after the surgery. I know what they mean, but after 14 years of contacts I guess I just got used to it. Over all though, it was the best $3000 I ever spent. It is great to be sighted when things go 'bump' in the night.

[RC20]

Dust and dirt can be an issue as well.

If there is wind and dirt in the air then better off with glasses.

[toppermost]

bump

(I want to see if there are more people with these issues)

[Bart B.]

I and other rifle shooters I've talked with in aiming at round bullseyes have never noticed our eyes automaticaly centering the front sight in the rear sight aperture's field of view. We all have to conciously move our head on the stock and align the sights such that the front sight top and bullseye are aligned in the center of the aperture. When we first aim with the sights and the front sight appears near the edge of the aperture's field of view, it stays there until we conciously make the effort to move our head and rifle so the front sight appears in the aperture's center.

This "automatically centering" thing's been published and spoken for decades, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just one of many myths in the shooting sports.

Best vision after us humans stop breathing to hold still and using iron sights (aperture or open) lasts for about 15 seconds. If you don't get the shot off in that time limit, take a few more deep breaths, let out half of the last one, stop breathing then start pulling the trigger again. After 15 to 20 seconds, our eyes start loosing visual acuity (image sharpness) and it gets hard to precicely align the front sight on the target.

Kraig suggested finding reading glasses that lets your eyes focus on the front sight by measuring the distance from your eye to the front sight. Use the metric system and measure it in meters. Divide 1 by the measured distance in meters. If the distance is 0.8 meter (80 cm) 1 divided by .8 equals 1.25. Get glasses marked 1.25; that's the diopter number for them and they have a focal length of 80 centimeters. If the target appears too fuzzy using these glasses, try the next lower diopter ones at 1.00 diopter; that'll sharpen up the target image.

[kraigwy]

Use the metric system and measure it in meters. Divide 1 by the measured distance in meters. If the distance is 0.8 meter (80 cm) 1 divided by .8 equals 1.25. Get glasses marked 1.25; that's the diopter number for them and they have a focal length of 80 centimeters. If the target appears too fuzzy using these glasses, try the next lower diopter ones at 1.00 diopter; that'll sharpen up the target image.

Bart, you are assuming everyone has the same eyesight. Mine are much worse, I have to use 2.75 for my pistol/revolver shooting. 2.25 for my 20 inch barreled ARs.

As to auto centering the front sight into the rear, No Sir, its not a myth. A simple test, find a small dot, rock or something. Take a carboard paper towel roll and hold it out where you can see the dot or rock. You'll notice you'll automaticly want to center the object in the roll.

[mehavey]

As to auto centering ....

What Kraigwy said +1

[Bart B.]

Kraig, I'm not referring to the focal length of ones aiming eye that's changed with different diopter eye glass lenses. That only corrects image sharpness. It has nothing to do with centering an object in a field of view; with or without looking through an aperture. Note the biggest aperture ones eye looks through is the natural one defined by its field of view. There's lots of objects one sees at the top, bottom, left and right; none of them get automatically centered, do they? One can move their eyeball to see directly at one of them, but they have to move their head and eye to center it in the natural field of view.

And I will automatically want to center front sights in an aperture's field of view, but unless I conciously move something, it ain't gonna be centered. I've proved this to hundreds of new service rifle shooters.

[mehavey]

but unless I conciously move something,...

Well, after all these years I have to consciously move something to break automatically placing the post/target in the center.

I will automatically want to center front sights in an aperture's field of view,...

Isn't this where we came in or this discussion? Sure I can consciously make an error, ...but that takes real effort and why teach it?

[Bart B.]

Whatever............

What's the correct answer to some kid's question looking through the aperture rear sight on a service rifle for the first time asking:

"The front sight's not in the middle of the hole. Should I move the rifle to center it or just leave it alone?"

[kraigwy]

"The front sight's not in the middle of the hole. Should I move the rifle to center it or just leave it alone?"

Correct your position until the front sight is centered.

Keep your head straight, bring the rifle to your head (not the other way around). Adjust your position until the front sight naturally centers itself.

[mehavey]

Originally Posted by Student

"The front sight's not in the middle of the hole. Should I move the rifle to center it or just leave it alone?"

Socratical Answer: "Where do you feel it goes most obviously & comfortably as you look through it?"

Want to take any bets on the 99th-percentile answer?

[btmj]

Let's not get too caried away with semantics, guys.

"automatic centering of the front sight in the aperature..."

I don't remember being taught how to shoot. I was a little kid, and I am sure it was an air gun or bb gun. By the time I shot a centerfire rifle with a peep sight, I had quite a bit of experience shooting 22s and centerfire rifles with v-notch sights. For me, the front sight just sort of naturally lined up with the center of the peep aperature.

I have taught newbe's to shoot. For them, NOTHING comes naturally. They have no muscle memory. They have to think continuously about stance, posture, muzzle safety, trigger finger safety, how to hold the weapon, how to mount the weapon to the shoulder, how to align the sights with their eye, how to get a cheek weld, how to settle down on the target, how to breathe, how to not breathe, how to squeeze the trigger, how to cycle the action, how to obey the rules of the range, etc.

None of this comes naturally to a newbe the first time they shoot. A kid can pick this up quick, and after 50 rounds, things are coming pretty naturally. But I have worked with adults who needed several range sessions, and hundreds of rounds before they can stop conciously thinking about every step in the process.

So both Bart and Kraig are right. A complete novice needs to conciously align the eye to the sight, and the sight to the target.... just like everything else about the weapon requires dedicated concious thought. However, a shooter with even modest experience will already understand the basics of using a sight, and will align the front sight into the center of the aperature without even thinking about it... because it feels natural to do so.

Our eyes are very sensitive to an off-center circle. A spot in the middle of a circle which is almost, but not quite at the center... we will notice that. It tends to annoy us. This is what makes aperature sights so useful. If the front sight feels like it is centered in the aperature, it is probably nearly exactly centered.