A question for hunters - Page 2

Art Eatman · November 7, 2002, 09:42 AM

Wild turkey have the best "pattern recognition" of any animal, according to wildlife biologists. If that stump wasn't there, yesterday, it's a Bad Thing, and it's time to leave, Right Now! So, camo is a necessity, and a type that breaks up an outline so you don't look like a new stump is best.

Deer don't see colors; only shades of gray. I dunno why any deer hunter thinks camo is a necessity. Any dull-colored earth-toned material will do.

I got into serious deer-hunting in 1963 when I moved back to Texas. I've never used anything but a scoped rifle. Much better chance for a clean kill, with a scope. Nowadays, with tri-focals, it's pretty much a necessity.

In the south Texas brush country, you'll use a stand or forget it. The prickly pear and mesquite are often thick enough that you can't walk through it; you must be able to see over that 8-foot stuff and watch trails and the little clear areas.

In my area, you'll walk or do without Bambi. Go to where he might be hiding, kick him out of bed, look him over to see if he's worth shooting, and test your skill. Heck, just finding him is a test of endurance and skill. A running shot at 150 to 300 yards has been known to be an exercise in futility.

If you're good, you eat.

I usually wear some old khakis, my ancient Russell Birdhunters and carry a few extra cartridges, a piece of rope and my knife. And some toilet paper, to mark the spot so I can come back and collect the carcass. It's embarrassing to have a deer down, in the back end of nowhere, and not be able to return and find him.

Art

kjm · November 7, 2002, 11:07 AM

That reminds me of when I was at Ft. Bragg and (when not busy killing people or breaking things) would spend Sunday mornings watching Bill Dance catch fish after fish. Then we'd go to Walmart and buy everything he used, and try our luck at the local lakes. After spending a huge amount of money fishing with all that crap, I decided to go back to fishing with live bait and a bait caster, and now I am catching fish again.

Gadgetry doesn't work. Skill works. I don't hunt for sport anyway, so most of my deer are killed because I'll be doing tractor work or cutting up a tree and will have a rifle handy when the opportunity comes. We just learn to carry a rifle with us when out in the pastures during deer season.

dongun · November 7, 2002, 02:05 PM

Most of that stuff is junk, but those heated underpants - now that is essential equipment...

Keith Rogan · November 7, 2002, 02:16 PM

Ladybug,

90% of those products are directed at people who don't know how to hunt, or are just beginning. Almost none of them will help, and most of them will actually hurt your odds of bagging a deer.
Think of the lousy basketball player who buys the $200 sneakers or the bad golfer who buys the premium clubs. This is about retailers trying to convince people that money or technology can overcome lack of skill. It can't.

A few weekends stalking deer with a camera in the off-season is worth all of these products put together and more.

eroyd · November 7, 2002, 02:44 PM

During the off season while sitting around flipping through glossy catalogs and watching hunting videos its easy to get caught up in the gadget thing. We boys love our toys. The marketers are well aware of that.
It doesn't take long on the first hunt of the season to realize that we've been rooked. I wish I had the money back I've wasted on such gadgets . . . it would probably pay for a 6 month African Safari.

Art Eatman · November 7, 2002, 03:35 PM

One of the advantages of being an Old Fart is that all those toys weren't in existence when I was learning about hunting. If I didn't need them, then, why would I need them, now?

, Art

12GA · November 7, 2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

One of the advantages of being an Old Fart is that all those toys weren't in existence when I was learning about hunting. If I didn't need them, then, why would I need them, now?

I'm with you, Art. When my dad first took me hunting 30 years ago, the right equipment included newspaper wadded up in the boots (strangely, it does help keep the feet warm), thermal undies, and a few sour balls to help pass the time. I still wear the coat that he handed down to me that day.

Handloader · November 7, 2002, 03:56 PM

I use Camo clothing and tree stands, as a bow hunter yuou find it's allot harder to get a whitetail within 20 yards than it is to get one into rifle range. I do however try to control my scent etc as best I can. I do not however go along with all the products on the market, such as scents, scent lock suits, coverup scents, etc, etc, etc. I think most of the products on the market are being manufactured more to catch inexperienced hunters money more than help harvest a deer. I used to hunt with a young guy that when he showed up at our camp he had more stuff than any sporting goods store I had ever been in, if someone made it for deer hunting he had at least one of everything. After a couple of season he finally came to understand that this does not make a hunter and that spending time in the woods, knowing the animals habits etc. is more important than how much STUFF you have that is supposed to make you irresistable to deer. I alway's try to tell new hunters to do their home work and keep things as simple as possible and to use common sense like keeping the wind in your face, scouting game trails etc works better than all the stuff you can buy at your local walmart, basspro, or cabela's.
Just one hunters opinion.

Bogie · November 7, 2002, 04:06 PM

I know one guy who SWEARS that he has a buddy who has...

A heated deer stand. Not a cabin, but an honest to god deer stand.

With carpet. You MUST take your boots off.

And furniture. Nice furniture.

And electricity. For the TV and refrigerator.

He said they go out there, open a window, put a rifle on the rest, and then sorta keep an eye out for deer in one particular location while they watch football. If a deer is darwinistic enough to wander into that portion of the world, then they have to remove it from the gene pool.

I've been told that I've got an invitation should I ever desire to partake in "civilized" hunting.

Al Thompson · November 7, 2002, 05:58 PM

Bogie, if you'll remember, some writer in Precision Shooting wrote about a set up like that.. :barf:

kjm · November 7, 2002, 08:05 PM

You might think I'm kidding, but four years ago, a lawyer friend who came into some big money let me hunt his stand. He's rightfully proud of it. It is one of those small one-room office trailers like you'd see at a construction site. It is on a welded pipe frame that has electricity, heat (no a/c, but nobody hunts in the heat anyway) and a place built in for hoisting the kill up for cleaning. It took a large crane just to lift the building onto the welded platform built for it. I might one day take a photo and post it. It is rediculous, but very comfy to hunt in. The Axis deer come right up to it so you literally could hunt with a pistol. You'd have to see it to believe it.

MeekAndMild · November 7, 2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Now my question is... where exactely is the "sport" in all of this?

Har!

I could ask the same question about the 15 year old girls who hang out in the mall wearing designer clothes, $100 haircuts and $200 shoes, trying to bag a male of the human species.

BTW Glockgirl, camis work both ways. You ain't never seen a poacher so scared.

Dr.Rob · November 7, 2002, 08:33 PM

Well I for one bought some cool stuff at Cabela's. Its hard to find a heavy weight wool sweater these days, or a silk turtleneck. Cabela's has that stuff, not to mention the Safari jacket I picked up for a buddy on his way to Africa. Ever been to their store in Sydney? Stopped in to shop, had a caribou sandwich for lunch. Bought a fleece vest and some fishing lures.

I don't use tree stands, or camoflauge, as I hunt in Colorado where you have to wear 500sq inches of blaze orange.

De-Scenting your boots isn't a bad idea regardless of what season you hunt in, but you can get the same effect by not hunting in the clothes you wear at camp while you are gassing trucks, frying bacon, etc etc.

Art Eatman · November 7, 2002, 10:05 PM

Prez LBJ's "ranch hands" went a step farther than just a lah-di-dah plush "stand". There was a high fence around an oat patch, planted right by the elevated mini-palace. Just before daylight, one of the flunkies would close the gate to the patch, leaving the deer trapped inside.

Open a window, poke the gun out, and pick one. Poor old Lyndon missed deer season in 1963, though; Mrs. Oswald wouldn't return his rifle.

, Art

MeekAndMild · November 8, 2002, 11:24 PM

KJM, did your friend make one of these?

Redneck deer stand. Redneck Deer Hunter in a Tree. Another redneck deer stand.

(BTW, the word "Redneck", is not mine, but was on the sites listed. I couldn't find any "Computer Geek" treestands for some reason.)

bronco61 · November 9, 2002, 06:09 AM

Now my question is... where exactely is the "sport" in all of this?

Here in Alaska, I don't know anyone who uses stands, scented underwear, etc. We DO wear camo though.

I have to say we're pretty lucky as we get 5 tags, our deer season lasts from Aug1 - Jan 1 and it doesn't matter what we get after Oct 1. Aug and Sept are buck only.

I will ask this though Ladybug; Have you ever tried hunting deer? They have the advantage of being able to hear and smell you from very long distances. They're quick, smart and jumpy.

If you haven't tried it, go out and give it a try and then you tell us if there's any sport in it or not.

And remember, just seeing a deer doesn't count. That's only part of the challenge during hunting season. Now you have to be able to get a good shot on it.

We're I'm at, shots over 100 yrds are VERY rare as it is a dense rain forest. If you can't jump-shoot while climbing VERY steep, slippery inclines then you won't get one.

Art Eatman · November 9, 2002, 05:44 PM

A few decades back I got into a squabble with a non-shooter, anti-hunter. He explained to me the unfairness of the "no skill needed" in my using a scoped rifle. Exasperated, I made an offer: I'd set up my Nikon with crosshairs on the focal plane shutter, and mount the camera on a rifle stock. I'd set up a trigger, and add weight and balance the rig to the same as my 9-1/2-pound rifle.

I'd take him to my deer lease for two weekends, and he could be a walking hunter with me.

If he brought me a print with the crosshairs in place such that the "shot" would have killed a running deer, I'd pay him $1,000. If he couldn't, he'd pay me $1,000. I spotted him does and yearlings, since I was limited to bucks...

That ended that nonsense.

, Art

yorec · November 9, 2002, 06:06 PM

Kinda one point that has been emphasized over and over - Cabela's has all these things for sale. I don't have them in my possession...

I know very few people who even have a majority of the things you've listed, let along use them all. Takes too much work and the fun outta gettin ginto the woods and enjoying it all.

And why don't folks raise deer on a private field? Same reason - I ain't got one. Likely if I did, I still wouldn't raise 'em as you described, but would allow wild ones to exist off the land naturally. That's what conservation and outdoorsmanship is all about - not killing game just cause you can.

super cub · November 9, 2002, 08:03 PM

I've hunted deer all my life and killed quite a few. I've "been deer hunting" many, many times when I killed nothing. On our club in the heart of deer country, deer are very plentiful, but that is NO guarantee that you will even see a deer, much less one worth shooting. I have never killed as many as my season license will allow. The pleasure I derive comes from hosting other people who enjoy our beautiful hunting land, watching the seasonal and animal activity, taking an exceptionally large buck , having my gun in hand, supplying myself and friends with venison, and just being outdoors. The hunters on our club land who hunt from tree stands are well-read, due to having a book handy in the stand (a box or climbing stand). Since we can use rifles, the club rules require we be elevated when using a rifle; otherwise I sometimes hunt sitting on a log with a shotgun or handgun. We have to wear orange, according to state law. We have an understanding that the twelve of us and our guests will not shoot small bucks. We always pass up several small spikes, cowhorns, or four-pointers. In eastern NC, you don't have to wear or use fancy gadgets, you really just have to be here and go hunting on a semi-regular basis to make some kills. However, I will opt for the warmest clothing Cabela's sells in our cold, humid winter climate. Use enough gun, buy a license, hunt where you are welcome and legal, eat what you kill, wear appropriate clothing for the weather, and you are good to go. The biggest deer I have ever seen were killed by grizzled old men wearing multiple flannel shirts and canvas hunting coats (sometimes with a bottle of Peach Snappes in the pocket) using single or double barrel 12 gauges with buckshot , sitting on a stump at the edge of a peanut field on a frosty fall day; this was in a bygone era.

beetlefang · November 10, 2002, 09:06 AM

Ok,

I waited a few days to reply to this...'are you really hunting?'

Yes...if you use everything in Cabela's and sat atop one of the magazines inside a central heated stand...you are still hunting, otherwise they'd call it 'shooting'.

Some hunts are easier than others - in game abundant areas (regardless of the quarry) people often view the hunter as someone taking advantage of an overpopulation of animals. They rarely view it as a management tool to prevent deer/car accidents, mountain lion attacks by your back yard swimming pool, or crows destroying acres of farmland.

We as the dominant species with opposable thumbs, choose to manage our fish and wild game populations. We (most north americans) have learned from the mistake of our ancestors concerning overharvesting of species is a painful. We still have a lot of educating to do - whales, rainforests etc - but being a prohunter doesn't mean you are anti-nature. It means that you are choosing to actively participate as a management control.

The tools you describe from the catalogue are not necessities - but they may be nice to have. It would be like someone owning everything in a Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue for their marriage - I mean , you're not gonna use it all - but you could experiment with some of it 'season after season'.

Like many of the other poster have said, "If it's so easy, you try it." And, I mean really try it - in a public wildlife management area, not a park with hand fed domesticated deer.

If you are turned off by deer hunting, then try hunting a squirrel or crow, or some other small game. Not the one's you see at home...go to a WMA and see how many you even get a shot at.

The bottom line is, hunting is not a guarantee that game will be brought home. I enjoy the 'hunt' the stalking the walking the teaching my sons about the box turtle we just stepped over, and the rattlesnake that we need to avoid. We often hunt in the woods - sometimes we bring stuff home - we are always successful at 'hunting (ie exploring the lands)' sometimes, we even get to use the 7 lbs of gun we're using to harvest a meal.

Respectfully,
Beetle

Keith Rogan · November 10, 2002, 11:13 AM

>>>>>The tools you describe from the catalogue are not necessities - but they may be nice to have. It would be like someone owning everything in a Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue for their marriage <<<<<

I dunno, just as in hunting, I'd say that a guy who relies too much on mail-order marital aids is probably lacking some basic skills...

Art Eatman · November 10, 2002, 11:34 AM

Seems to me the myriad "goodies & toys" bit is not particularly different from a mechanic who's a tool-freak, spending a lot of his paycheck with the Snap-On man. Or the home woodworker who keeps Sears&Sawbuck in bidness, whether or not he actually builds all those home projects.

I think it's more common among guys who didn't grow up in a rural setting, too. You can browse through a catalog and dream about "gonna do", come next season--even though you're stuck in a city, with some desk job. (BTDT) Some of it derives from the average guy's vulnerability to the advertising techniques developed by the world's best psychologists: "Madison Avenue".

My own experience from messin' around in the woods since sixty years ago tells me that little of that stuff creates any unfair advantage over Bambi. No matter how much of it is bought and used, a little wiggle, a bit of a cough, and the party is over for a while. And Bambi rarely looks up into trees; I've had too many of them never notice me when they lie down under my stand and began chewing their cud. (Which, by the way, is hilarious to watch.)

All in all, it's pretty small potatoes...It's sorta like car racing: If you're not spending the grocery money on it, "Hit don' make no nevermind, nowhow."

, Art

beetlefang · November 10, 2002, 12:18 PM

Keith...I agree...

But,....

Anti-hunters use this argument all of the time - the 'unfair game advantage' to make someone feel guilty about their sport. I guess they may feel better if man ran around in a loin cloth and chased deer with a buck knife - that would be sporting.

I'm just trying to say...I wear camo, carry a gun, and a squirrel call and a duck call. I haven't purchased any of the other items mentioned. But hey, If cabela's were to give me a catalogue of inventory then I wouldn't decline it either; and probably, would never be able to use it all - but I'd try. The same applies to Frederick's

I mean, really all one needs is a single shot H&R in 3006 and one in 12 gauge to kill nearly everything in North America, but we spend lots on nicer equipment - because it's fun. Persons shouldn't feel guilty about their purchases.

I think Art makes the greatest truth to the sporting catalogues...If I'm not fishing, or visiting the Wal-mart fishing aisle, then I'm browsing a Bass Pro catalogue...I guess its just human nature.

kjm · November 11, 2002, 11:54 AM

OK, here is something that is worthy of purchase out of the Cabelas catalog: ANYTHING GORETEX!!! Man that stuff is the greatest stuff ever made. Coupled with poly propylene long underwear, you're able to comfortably sit all day long in warm and dry skivies!

Where I hunt, it doesn't get real cold, but it can get down to the 50's and after sitting an hour or two at 50F can make it seem like -30. You really can get cold.

Also, the dew just soaks your feet when you walk out to where you'll be hunting. I like warm, dry feet, so I have gore-tex boots that I was issued by the Army. I still need gore-tex pants, but I'm working on that. I'll probably go up to Ft. Hood and find them surplus.

Goretex makes it easy to sit and enjoy nature all day long. I don't even shoot all the deer I see. I probably let 50 go for every one I actually shoot, and that means I spend a lot of time just sitting at the base of a tree or up a short tree.

It might be fun to ridicule those who buy the RealTree cammo couches, but any man who has a well-stocked wardrobe of gore-tex has my envy.

labgrade · November 11, 2002, 12:49 PM

Few years back, I bought a suit of camo, fleece Gore-Tex from Cabella's.

Wanted the camo (due to turkey hunting - pattern looks like a Ponderosa pine tree trunk), wanted the fleece 'cause my backpacking Gore-Tex was the basic outer shell nylon & way too noisy for anything sneak-hunting.

Wanted the Gore_tex because it is one fantastic wind-breaker & keeps me dry when hunting in snowy conditions to -10/20 below zero.

A fine combo.

Scents? nope. Have shot deer/elk while smoking a cigarette or hanging out over a camp fire - wind blows scent to 'em & if blowing the other way = they can't smell it.

Scope? yup. My eyes aren't any longer & besides, a scope allows me better precision.

If I want to "be sporting," I'll use my recurve & take a 6X elk off the deck during a break of CNN.

November 7, 2002, 11:07 AM	#27
kjm Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 1,871	That reminds me of when I was at Ft. Bragg and (when not busy killing people or breaking things) would spend Sunday mornings watching Bill Dance catch fish after fish. Then we'd go to Walmart and buy everything he used, and try our luck at the local lakes. After spending a huge amount of money fishing with all that crap, I decided to go back to fishing with live bait and a bait caster, and now I am catching fish again. Gadgetry doesn't work. Skill works. I don't hunt for sport anyway, so most of my deer are killed because I'll be doing tractor work or cutting up a tree and will have a rifle handy when the opportunity comes. We just learn to carry a rifle with us when out in the pastures during deer season. __________________ COME AND TAKE IT!!!

November 7, 2002, 02:05 PM	#28
dongun Member Join Date: May 7, 2000 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 76	Most of that stuff is junk, but those heated underpants - now that is essential equipment... __________________ "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Verbal Kent (The Usual Suspects)

November 7, 2002, 02:16 PM	#29
Keith Rogan Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 1,014	Ladybug, 90% of those products are directed at people who don't know how to hunt, or are just beginning. Almost none of them will help, and most of them will actually hurt your odds of bagging a deer. Think of the lousy basketball player who buys the $200 sneakers or the bad golfer who buys the premium clubs. This is about retailers trying to convince people that money or technology can overcome lack of skill. It can't. A few weekends stalking deer with a camera in the off-season is worth all of these products put together and more. __________________ Keith

November 7, 2002, 03:56 PM	#33
Handloader Junior Member Join Date: November 6, 2002 Location: N.E. Oklahoma Posts: 12	I use Camo clothing and tree stands, as a bow hunter yuou find it's allot harder to get a whitetail within 20 yards than it is to get one into rifle range. I do however try to control my scent etc as best I can. I do not however go along with all the products on the market, such as scents, scent lock suits, coverup scents, etc, etc, etc. I think most of the products on the market are being manufactured more to catch inexperienced hunters money more than help harvest a deer. I used to hunt with a young guy that when he showed up at our camp he had more stuff than any sporting goods store I had ever been in, if someone made it for deer hunting he had at least one of everything. After a couple of season he finally came to understand that this does not make a hunter and that spending time in the woods, knowing the animals habits etc. is more important than how much STUFF you have that is supposed to make you irresistable to deer. I alway's try to tell new hunters to do their home work and keep things as simple as possible and to use common sense like keeping the wind in your face, scouting game trails etc works better than all the stuff you can buy at your local walmart, basspro, or cabela's. Just one hunters opinion. __________________ Load More To Shoot More Often But most of all Shoot Safe

November 7, 2002, 04:06 PM	#34
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	I know one guy who SWEARS that he has a buddy who has... A heated deer stand. Not a cabin, but an honest to god deer stand. With carpet. You MUST take your boots off. And furniture. Nice furniture. And electricity. For the TV and refrigerator. He said they go out there, open a window, put a rifle on the rest, and then sorta keep an eye out for deer in one particular location while they watch football. If a deer is darwinistic enough to wander into that portion of the world, then they have to remove it from the gene pool. I've been told that I've got an invitation should I ever desire to partake in "civilized" hunting. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

November 7, 2002, 09:42 AM	#26
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Wild turkey have the best "pattern recognition" of any animal, according to wildlife biologists. If that stump wasn't there, yesterday, it's a Bad Thing, and it's time to leave, Right Now! So, camo is a necessity, and a type that breaks up an outline so you don't look like a new stump is best. Deer don't see colors; only shades of gray. I dunno why any deer hunter thinks camo is a necessity. Any dull-colored earth-toned material will do. I got into serious deer-hunting in 1963 when I moved back to Texas. I've never used anything but a scoped rifle. Much better chance for a clean kill, with a scope. Nowadays, with tri-focals, it's pretty much a necessity. In the south Texas brush country, you'll use a stand or forget it. The prickly pear and mesquite are often thick enough that you can't walk through it; you must be able to see over that 8-foot stuff and watch trails and the little clear areas. In my area, you'll walk or do without Bambi. Go to where he might be hiding, kick him out of bed, look him over to see if he's worth shooting, and test your skill. Heck, just finding him is a test of endurance and skill. A running shot at 150 to 300 yards has been known to be an exercise in futility. If you're good, you eat. I usually wear some old khakis, my ancient Russell Birdhunters and carry a few extra cartridges, a piece of rope and my knife. And some toilet paper, to mark the spot so I can come back and collect the carcass. It's embarrassing to have a deer down, in the back end of nowhere, and not be able to return and find him. Art

November 7, 2002, 02:44 PM	#30
eroyd Member Join Date: September 13, 2002 Location: british columbia, canada Posts: 81	During the off season while sitting around flipping through glossy catalogs and watching hunting videos its easy to get caught up in the gadget thing. We boys love our toys. The marketers are well aware of that. It doesn't take long on the first hunt of the season to realize that we've been rooked. I wish I had the money back I've wasted on such gadgets . . . it would probably pay for a 6 month African Safari.

November 7, 2002, 03:35 PM	#31
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	One of the advantages of being an Old Fart is that all those toys weren't in existence when I was learning about hunting. If I didn't need them, then, why would I need them, now? , Art

November 7, 2002, 05:58 PM	#35
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Bogie, if you'll remember, some writer in Precision Shooting wrote about a set up like that.. :barf: __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

November 7, 2002, 08:05 PM	#36
kjm Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 1,871	You might think I'm kidding, but four years ago, a lawyer friend who came into some big money let me hunt his stand. He's rightfully proud of it. It is one of those small one-room office trailers like you'd see at a construction site. It is on a welded pipe frame that has electricity, heat (no a/c, but nobody hunts in the heat anyway) and a place built in for hoisting the kill up for cleaning. It took a large crane just to lift the building onto the welded platform built for it. I might one day take a photo and post it. It is rediculous, but very comfy to hunt in. The Axis deer come right up to it so you literally could hunt with a pistol. You'd have to see it to believe it. __________________ COME AND TAKE IT!!!

November 7, 2002, 08:33 PM	#38
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	Well I for one bought some cool stuff at Cabela's. Its hard to find a heavy weight wool sweater these days, or a silk turtleneck. Cabela's has that stuff, not to mention the Safari jacket I picked up for a buddy on his way to Africa. Ever been to their store in Sydney? Stopped in to shop, had a caribou sandwich for lunch. Bought a fleece vest and some fishing lures. I don't use tree stands, or camoflauge, as I hunt in Colorado where you have to wear 500sq inches of blaze orange. De-Scenting your boots isn't a bad idea regardless of what season you hunt in, but you can get the same effect by not hunting in the clothes you wear at camp while you are gassing trucks, frying bacon, etc etc. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!

November 7, 2002, 10:05 PM	#39
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Prez LBJ's "ranch hands" went a step farther than just a lah-di-dah plush "stand". There was a high fence around an oat patch, planted right by the elevated mini-palace. Just before daylight, one of the flunkies would close the gate to the patch, leaving the deer trapped inside. Open a window, poke the gun out, and pick one. Poor old Lyndon missed deer season in 1963, though; Mrs. Oswald wouldn't return his rifle. , Art

November 8, 2002, 11:24 PM	#40
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	KJM, did your friend make one of these? Redneck deer stand. Redneck Deer Hunter in a Tree. Another redneck deer stand. (BTW, the word "Redneck", is not mine, but was on the sites listed. I couldn't find any "Computer Geek" treestands for some reason.)

November 9, 2002, 06:09 AM	#41
bronco61 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 1999 Location: Alaska Posts: 518	Now my question is... where exactely is the "sport" in all of this? Here in Alaska, I don't know anyone who uses stands, scented underwear, etc. We DO wear camo though. I have to say we're pretty lucky as we get 5 tags, our deer season lasts from Aug1 - Jan 1 and it doesn't matter what we get after Oct 1. Aug and Sept are buck only. I will ask this though Ladybug; Have you ever tried hunting deer? They have the advantage of being able to hear and smell you from very long distances. They're quick, smart and jumpy. If you haven't tried it, go out and give it a try and then you tell us if there's any sport in it or not. And remember, just seeing a deer doesn't count. That's only part of the challenge during hunting season. Now you have to be able to get a good shot on it. We're I'm at, shots over 100 yrds are VERY rare as it is a dense rain forest. If you can't jump-shoot while climbing VERY steep, slippery inclines then you won't get one.

November 9, 2002, 05:44 PM	#42
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	A few decades back I got into a squabble with a non-shooter, anti-hunter. He explained to me the unfairness of the "no skill needed" in my using a scoped rifle. Exasperated, I made an offer: I'd set up my Nikon with crosshairs on the focal plane shutter, and mount the camera on a rifle stock. I'd set up a trigger, and add weight and balance the rig to the same as my 9-1/2-pound rifle. I'd take him to my deer lease for two weekends, and he could be a walking hunter with me. If he brought me a print with the crosshairs in place such that the "shot" would have killed a running deer, I'd pay him $1,000. If he couldn't, he'd pay me $1,000. I spotted him does and yearlings, since I was limited to bucks... That ended that nonsense. , Art

November 9, 2002, 06:06 PM	#43
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Kinda one point that has been emphasized over and over - Cabela's has all these things for sale. I don't have them in my possession... I know very few people who even have a majority of the things you've listed, let along use them all. Takes too much work and the fun outta gettin ginto the woods and enjoying it all. And why don't folks raise deer on a private field? Same reason - I ain't got one. Likely if I did, I still wouldn't raise 'em as you described, but would allow wild ones to exist off the land naturally. That's what conservation and outdoorsmanship is all about - not killing game just cause you can. __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

November 9, 2002, 08:03 PM	#44
super cub Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Posts: 66	Deer hunting in rural NC I've hunted deer all my life and killed quite a few. I've "been deer hunting" many, many times when I killed nothing. On our club in the heart of deer country, deer are very plentiful, but that is NO guarantee that you will even see a deer, much less one worth shooting. I have never killed as many as my season license will allow. The pleasure I derive comes from hosting other people who enjoy our beautiful hunting land, watching the seasonal and animal activity, taking an exceptionally large buck , having my gun in hand, supplying myself and friends with venison, and just being outdoors. The hunters on our club land who hunt from tree stands are well-read, due to having a book handy in the stand (a box or climbing stand). Since we can use rifles, the club rules require we be elevated when using a rifle; otherwise I sometimes hunt sitting on a log with a shotgun or handgun. We have to wear orange, according to state law. We have an understanding that the twelve of us and our guests will not shoot small bucks. We always pass up several small spikes, cowhorns, or four-pointers. In eastern NC, you don't have to wear or use fancy gadgets, you really just have to be here and go hunting on a semi-regular basis to make some kills. However, I will opt for the warmest clothing Cabela's sells in our cold, humid winter climate. Use enough gun, buy a license, hunt where you are welcome and legal, eat what you kill, wear appropriate clothing for the weather, and you are good to go. The biggest deer I have ever seen were killed by grizzled old men wearing multiple flannel shirts and canvas hunting coats (sometimes with a bottle of Peach Snappes in the pocket) using single or double barrel 12 gauges with buckshot , sitting on a stump at the edge of a peanut field on a frosty fall day; this was in a bygone era. __________________ The classy course of action is always proper.

November 10, 2002, 09:06 AM	#45
beetlefang Member Join Date: October 4, 2002 Posts: 41	Ok, I waited a few days to reply to this...'are you really hunting?' Yes...if you use everything in Cabela's and sat atop one of the magazines inside a central heated stand...you are still hunting, otherwise they'd call it 'shooting'. Some hunts are easier than others - in game abundant areas (regardless of the quarry) people often view the hunter as someone taking advantage of an overpopulation of animals. They rarely view it as a management tool to prevent deer/car accidents, mountain lion attacks by your back yard swimming pool, or crows destroying acres of farmland. We as the dominant species with opposable thumbs, choose to manage our fish and wild game populations. We (most north americans) have learned from the mistake of our ancestors concerning overharvesting of species is a painful. We still have a lot of educating to do - whales, rainforests etc - but being a prohunter doesn't mean you are anti-nature. It means that you are choosing to actively participate as a management control. The tools you describe from the catalogue are not necessities - but they may be nice to have. It would be like someone owning everything in a Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue for their marriage - I mean , you're not gonna use it all - but you could experiment with some of it 'season after season'. Like many of the other poster have said, "If it's so easy, you try it." And, I mean really try it - in a public wildlife management area, not a park with hand fed domesticated deer. If you are turned off by deer hunting, then try hunting a squirrel or crow, or some other small game. Not the one's you see at home...go to a WMA and see how many you even get a shot at. The bottom line is, hunting is not a guarantee that game will be brought home. I enjoy the 'hunt' the stalking the walking the teaching my sons about the box turtle we just stepped over, and the rattlesnake that we need to avoid. We often hunt in the woods - sometimes we bring stuff home - we are always successful at 'hunting (ie exploring the lands)' sometimes, we even get to use the 7 lbs of gun we're using to harvest a meal. Respectfully, Beetle

November 10, 2002, 11:13 AM	#46
Keith Rogan Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 1,014	>>>>>The tools you describe from the catalogue are not necessities - but they may be nice to have. It would be like someone owning everything in a Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue for their marriage <<<<< I dunno, just as in hunting, I'd say that a guy who relies too much on mail-order marital aids is probably lacking some basic skills... __________________ Keith

November 10, 2002, 11:34 AM	#47
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Seems to me the myriad "goodies & toys" bit is not particularly different from a mechanic who's a tool-freak, spending a lot of his paycheck with the Snap-On man. Or the home woodworker who keeps Sears&Sawbuck in bidness, whether or not he actually builds all those home projects. I think it's more common among guys who didn't grow up in a rural setting, too. You can browse through a catalog and dream about "gonna do", come next season--even though you're stuck in a city, with some desk job. (BTDT) Some of it derives from the average guy's vulnerability to the advertising techniques developed by the world's best psychologists: "Madison Avenue". My own experience from messin' around in the woods since sixty years ago tells me that little of that stuff creates any unfair advantage over Bambi. No matter how much of it is bought and used, a little wiggle, a bit of a cough, and the party is over for a while. And Bambi rarely looks up into trees; I've had too many of them never notice me when they lie down under my stand and began chewing their cud. (Which, by the way, is hilarious to watch.) All in all, it's pretty small potatoes...It's sorta like car racing: If you're not spending the grocery money on it, "Hit don' make no nevermind, nowhow." , Art

November 10, 2002, 12:18 PM	#48
beetlefang Member Join Date: October 4, 2002 Posts: 41	Keith...I agree... But,.... Anti-hunters use this argument all of the time - the 'unfair game advantage' to make someone feel guilty about their sport. I guess they may feel better if man ran around in a loin cloth and chased deer with a buck knife - that would be sporting. I'm just trying to say...I wear camo, carry a gun, and a squirrel call and a duck call. I haven't purchased any of the other items mentioned. But hey, If cabela's were to give me a catalogue of inventory then I wouldn't decline it either; and probably, would never be able to use it all - but I'd try. The same applies to Frederick's I mean, really all one needs is a single shot H&R in 3006 and one in 12 gauge to kill nearly everything in North America, but we spend lots on nicer equipment - because it's fun. Persons shouldn't feel guilty about their purchases. I think Art makes the greatest truth to the sporting catalogues...If I'm not fishing, or visiting the Wal-mart fishing aisle, then I'm browsing a Bass Pro catalogue...I guess its just human nature.

November 11, 2002, 11:54 AM	#49
kjm Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 1,871	OK, here is something that is worthy of purchase out of the Cabelas catalog: ANYTHING GORETEX!!! Man that stuff is the greatest stuff ever made. Coupled with poly propylene long underwear, you're able to comfortably sit all day long in warm and dry skivies! Where I hunt, it doesn't get real cold, but it can get down to the 50's and after sitting an hour or two at 50F can make it seem like -30. You really can get cold. Also, the dew just soaks your feet when you walk out to where you'll be hunting. I like warm, dry feet, so I have gore-tex boots that I was issued by the Army. I still need gore-tex pants, but I'm working on that. I'll probably go up to Ft. Hood and find them surplus. Goretex makes it easy to sit and enjoy nature all day long. I don't even shoot all the deer I see. I probably let 50 go for every one I actually shoot, and that means I spend a lot of time just sitting at the base of a tree or up a short tree. It might be fun to ridicule those who buy the RealTree cammo couches, but any man who has a well-stocked wardrobe of gore-tex has my envy. __________________ COME AND TAKE IT!!!

November 11, 2002, 12:49 PM	#50
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Few years back, I bought a suit of camo, fleece Gore-Tex from Cabella's. Wanted the camo (due to turkey hunting - pattern looks like a Ponderosa pine tree trunk), wanted the fleece 'cause my backpacking Gore-Tex was the basic outer shell nylon & way too noisy for anything sneak-hunting. Wanted the Gore_tex because it is one fantastic wind-breaker & keeps me dry when hunting in snowy conditions to -10/20 below zero. A fine combo. Scents? nope. Have shot deer/elk while smoking a cigarette or hanging out over a camp fire - wind blows scent to 'em & if blowing the other way = they can't smell it. Scope? yup. My eyes aren't any longer & besides, a scope allows me better precision. If I want to "be sporting," I'll use my recurve & take a 6X elk off the deck during a break of CNN.