Holographic v. Red Dot

Desmosedici · May 12, 2020, 02:24 PM

So, I recently purchased an AR-15 (Springfield Saint Victor) and am thrilled with it, have had immense fun in my two range trips, took an Intro to AR class as well, and am settling into getting to know and operate my new weapon.

I have sighted it in at 50 yards with the Magpul BUS it has on it, and shot decent groups with it, but ultimately, I'm looking to purchase an optic. My shooting buddy, who I'd call an enthusiast in every sense of the word (shoots anywhere from 500-1000 rounds a week), has multiple AR's and is an ardent fan of red-dots. I borrowed his Sig Sauer Romeo when I took my class, and I liked it, but I want to try a holographic sight.

Does anyone here have a holographic sight? What are your thoughts on these?

I sure wish I could borrow one or rent one, my favorite gun store/range does not rent them and and the rifles you can rent do not have optics on them. So, even though I've been reading up on them, I'd thought I'd get some real-world opinions from folks on here---thx!

NoSecondBest · May 12, 2020, 02:29 PM

Shooting them you won't even notice a difference. I've shot both and for me, the smaller red dots are a better choice. I've seen guys put the C-Moor dots on guns and end up taking them back off. A friend of mine recently got a Romeo 5(?) (I think that was the model) and I was very impressed with it, especially considering the moderate price. It's held up well on several of his AR type guns.

Desmosedici · May 12, 2020, 03:39 PM

Thx. The Romeo is a a very good piece of kit for the price, and my LGS has it on sale online for $129.99, which is probably unbeatable, and far less than what the price is for any of the Eotechs I've been looking at, which are around $400.00 and up.

I'd say my budget is around 450-500. I might revert back to the Romeo, it's by all means a good choice at the entry level price.

raimius · May 12, 2020, 04:56 PM

The main difference is in reticle options. An Aimpoint will have a dot. An Eotech will have a dot with a larger circle around it. It's mostly personal preference as to who h is better.

jmr40 · May 12, 2020, 07:37 PM

You and your buddy will be a lot better with a low powered conventional scope in a 1-4X or 1-6X configuration. At similar price points a conventional scope is much better optically, works better in low light and on 1X is just as fast as a dot sight. Plus you have the option of enough magnification for 400-600 yard shots.

And they are available with an illuminated reticle or center dot if that is a must have.

Sweet Shooter · May 12, 2020, 08:56 PM

This is a really good crossover option. I'm old and can't see red dots or reflex sights very well—I can use them but don't enjoy the blur, I also struggle with irons—unless I use an aperture, whereupon I'm terrifying.

Then I discovered prism sights. This right here in my opinion is the best option in this price range. It has elements of Elcan, Steiner, Acog, a great warranty, and has a diopter (critical for aging eyes like mine). There is also the Primary Arms prism scopes that have the ACSS reticle—very similar but I have no experience with it. I personally FWIW think these prisms are better than LPVO's

MarkCO · May 13, 2020, 08:16 AM

Holographic sights are theoretically faster in that the "window frame" is smaller, or the field of view is "better". While that is marginally true, IMHO, it is something that really only matters in the speed shooting games, where Holographic sights usually sit on the top shooters guns. But the C-More, which is probably the most used and suggested by top shooters, is not what I would consider to be durable enough for a defense/duty/hunting rifle.

Like Sweet Shooter mentioned, the Prism sights are a better option for 1x optics on an AR that a straight red dot. Leupold pretty much pioneered the prism sight, but they had mount and reliability issues. That said, up until maybe 5 years ago, they were THE sight in the 1x optics class and for several years, the 1x optics winners in 3Gun all ran the Leupold. Now there are some better choices in 1x, 3x and even 5x. IMHO, if you are not going to stay at 1x, a LPV in 1-4 or 1-6 is a better fit for the AR. Burris has an excellent 1-6 in the RT6 that punches well above its price point and I think is the best bet in a LPV for the AR.

Desmosedici · May 13, 2020, 06:15 PM

Thank you for the knowledge, Mark & Sweet Shooter, I greatly appreciate it.

Presently I am not looking to take it out to longer ranges, but I will likely want to do that in the future. For now, I'm looking for a close to medium range optic. That being said, the Vortex Spitfire 3x Prism looks like it has a great deal of capability for the price. I'm not thrilled about it being made in China, but for the price, it looks like a winner. So does the Aimpoint PRO.

Decisions, decisions. My wife eyeballed me last night looking at optics on my Ipad and she mentioned, "More gun stuff??" in a somewhat incredulous tone. You know, I never have such commentary when I observe Amazon boxes on the porch that are addressed to her that I know are, shall we say, personal items. LOL. Ah, but I digress.

This is so exciting, though. I'm so pleased to be part of the AR club now!

DaleA · May 14, 2020, 11:27 AM

Quote:

---and she mentioned, "More gun stuff??"

A perennial problem.

My personal advice is make friends with someone with a private pilot's license. Invite them over for a meal and get them talking about upkeep on a private plane. Talk about classes and licenses and training. Mention you've always wanted to fly and might ditch firearms for flying. She might just create a Midway USA account for you.

https://www.midwayusa.com/

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022552651?pid=350563

Good luck.

Bartholomew Roberts · May 14, 2020, 09:31 PM

I’m not sure how you or other posters are defining things, so I am going to explain how I am defining things.

Red dot - a tube or screen sight where the dot is projected by an LED.
Holographic sight - a screen sight where the reticle is projected by lasers.
Prism sight - your standard riflescope; but often with minimal magnification.

The tube red dot sights are frequently the toughest. The downside is if you have astigmatism, which is common, the “dot” can look irregular. Also, you won’t see any better than you can see with your plain eyes. The plus is if the dot is on the target, that’s where the bullet goes. Bad cheek weld? Don’t care. Eye 12 inches behind the optic? Don’t care. This lets you shoot from very non-traditional positions, use a non-dominant eye, and take maximum advantage of cover.

Holographic sights - They have most of the advantages of a red dot; but the reticle doesn't distort if you have astigmatism. Downsides - lasers are more fragile and require more power, so battery life is limited. However, if you know you are going to be assaulting someone else in a close quarters environment (direct action military teams, SWAT), these are the top choice. For general purpose use, the downsides in durability and battery life make it less desirable, than say, an Aimpoint.

Prism sights - these are just riflescopes. They may be only 1x; but they still need a solid cheek weld to be effective. Good news is, even at 1x, they usually help you see better. And they are rarely dependent on batteries; but non-traditional shooting positions are a no-go.

MarkCO · May 15, 2020, 07:35 AM

It would be helpful if the definitions used were accurate...

While most Red Dots use LEDs and most Holographic sights use lasers, the difference optically is the point of focus. The Red dot focus is ON the glass (not the target) while the Holographic is out at a further difference. That is why people with vision issues do so much better with Holographic sights.

Prism sights are NOT just a rifle scope, far from it. They use a prism to focus the image instead of a series of lenses. That lets them be smaller, lighter and still have diopter adjustment. That gives an added benefit over the Red Dot and Holographics for folks with poor vision. They have some parallax, but not as much as a traditional scope. Non-traditional shooting positions are no problem for them at all.

NoSecondBest · May 15, 2020, 07:57 AM

Read this very short article and you'll know the difference. Just go with the red dot for a handgun (actually I've mounted them on some rifles with great success).

http://www.differencebetween.net/tec...raphic-sights/

Sweet Shooter · May 15, 2020, 08:35 PM

"Prism sights - these are just riflescopes. They may be only 1x; but they still need a solid cheek weld to be effective. Good news is, even at 1x, they usually help you see better. And they are rarely dependent on batteries; but non-traditional shooting positions are a no-go."

Lot's of prisms are fixed magnified. There's another very important thing that most prisms have = No mechanical cross hairs to break. The fixed focus and etched reticle make them some of the toughest on the planet, they probably are the toughest.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 15, 2020, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCO

It would be helpful if the definitions used were accurate...

While most Red Dots use LEDs and most Holographic sights use lasers, the difference optically is the point of focus. The Red dot focus is ON the glass (not the target) while the Holographic is out at a further difference. That is why people with vision issues do so much better with Holographic sights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSecondBest

Read this very short article and you'll know the difference. Just go with the red dot for a handgun (actually I've mounted them on some rifles with great success).

http://www.differencebetween.net/tec...raphic-sights/

Both of you (and the article in the link provided by NoSecondBest) seem to completely ignore what I have always considered to be a "red dot" sight -- a somewhat conventional tube that projects a dot rather than a conventional reticle. Like this:

https://www.natchezss.com/bushnell-a...ack-matte.html

That article doesn't seem to even recognize the existence of sights such as this.

NoSecondBest · May 15, 2020, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Both of you (and the article in the link provided by NoSecondBest) seem to completely ignore what I have always considered to be a "red dot" sight

There's no error in that article. I've been using red dot sights for around thirty years now and have owned over two dozen during that time. I've shot major competitions and met and know many top shooters and they pretty much agree with what a red dot sight is. They all have a reticle. Some have dots, some have circles with a dot in the center, some have cross hairs. Some have multiple choice with all of the above available in one unit. The difference is that red dots use LED lights and holographic use lasers. You may have on opinion as to what you think red dots are, but many, many manufacturers and users don't share that opinion as being exclusively what a red dot is. I've reread the article and it is correct. As quoted, you are allowed to consider what ever you want....that's what makes it your opinion.

MarkCO · May 16, 2020, 09:43 AM

Aguila, that is why I posted it. Many have an inaccurate perception of what define the various optics. "Red Dot" has become a catch all. I can assure you that in the engineering fields of optics, and for those who actually design and build such optics, those are the correct terms.

Not ignoring perceptions, just trying to bring some education to the table.

May 12, 2020, 02:24 PM	#1
Desmosedici Member Join Date: April 1, 2016 Location: North Texas Posts: 72	Holographic v. Red Dot So, I recently purchased an AR-15 (Springfield Saint Victor) and am thrilled with it, have had immense fun in my two range trips, took an Intro to AR class as well, and am settling into getting to know and operate my new weapon. I have sighted it in at 50 yards with the Magpul BUS it has on it, and shot decent groups with it, but ultimately, I'm looking to purchase an optic. My shooting buddy, who I'd call an enthusiast in every sense of the word (shoots anywhere from 500-1000 rounds a week), has multiple AR's and is an ardent fan of red-dots. I borrowed his Sig Sauer Romeo when I took my class, and I liked it, but I want to try a holographic sight. Does anyone here have a holographic sight? What are your thoughts on these? I sure wish I could borrow one or rent one, my favorite gun store/range does not rent them and and the rifles you can rent do not have optics on them. So, even though I've been reading up on them, I'd thought I'd get some real-world opinions from folks on here---thx!

May 12, 2020, 07:37 PM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	You and your buddy will be a lot better with a low powered conventional scope in a 1-4X or 1-6X configuration. At similar price points a conventional scope is much better optically, works better in low light and on 1X is just as fast as a dot sight. Plus you have the option of enough magnification for 400-600 yard shots. And they are available with an illuminated reticle or center dot if that is a must have. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

May 13, 2020, 08:16 AM	#7
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Holographic sights are theoretically faster in that the "window frame" is smaller, or the field of view is "better". While that is marginally true, IMHO, it is something that really only matters in the speed shooting games, where Holographic sights usually sit on the top shooters guns. But the C-More, which is probably the most used and suggested by top shooters, is not what I would consider to be durable enough for a defense/duty/hunting rifle. Like Sweet Shooter mentioned, the Prism sights are a better option for 1x optics on an AR that a straight red dot. Leupold pretty much pioneered the prism sight, but they had mount and reliability issues. That said, up until maybe 5 years ago, they were THE sight in the 1x optics class and for several years, the 1x optics winners in 3Gun all ran the Leupold. Now there are some better choices in 1x, 3x and even 5x. IMHO, if you are not going to stay at 1x, a LPV in 1-4 or 1-6 is a better fit for the AR. Burris has an excellent 1-6 in the RT6 that punches well above its price point and I think is the best bet in a LPV for the AR. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

May 15, 2020, 07:35 AM	#11
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	It would be helpful if the definitions used were accurate... While most Red Dots use LEDs and most Holographic sights use lasers, the difference optically is the point of focus. The Red dot focus is ON the glass (not the target) while the Holographic is out at a further difference. That is why people with vision issues do so much better with Holographic sights. Prism sights are NOT just a rifle scope, far from it. They use a prism to focus the image instead of a series of lenses. That lets them be smaller, lighter and still have diopter adjustment. That gives an added benefit over the Red Dot and Holographics for folks with poor vision. They have some parallax, but not as much as a traditional scope. Non-traditional shooting positions are no problem for them at all. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

May 16, 2020, 09:43 AM	#16
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Aguila, that is why I posted it. Many have an inaccurate perception of what define the various optics. "Red Dot" has become a catch all. I can assure you that in the engineering fields of optics, and for those who actually design and build such optics, those are the correct terms. Not ignoring perceptions, just trying to bring some education to the table. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

May 12, 2020, 02:29 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Shooting them you won't even notice a difference. I've shot both and for me, the smaller red dots are a better choice. I've seen guys put the C-Moor dots on guns and end up taking them back off. A friend of mine recently got a Romeo 5(?) (I think that was the model) and I was very impressed with it, especially considering the moderate price. It's held up well on several of his AR type guns.

May 12, 2020, 03:39 PM	#3
Desmosedici Member Join Date: April 1, 2016 Location: North Texas Posts: 72	Thx. The Romeo is a a very good piece of kit for the price, and my LGS has it on sale online for $129.99, which is probably unbeatable, and far less than what the price is for any of the Eotechs I've been looking at, which are around $400.00 and up. I'd say my budget is around 450-500. I might revert back to the Romeo, it's by all means a good choice at the entry level price.

May 12, 2020, 04:56 PM	#4
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	The main difference is in reticle options. An Aimpoint will have a dot. An Eotech will have a dot with a larger circle around it. It's mostly personal preference as to who h is better.

May 12, 2020, 08:56 PM	#6
Sweet Shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2011 Posts: 672	This is a really good crossover option. I'm old and can't see red dots or reflex sights very well—I can use them but don't enjoy the blur, I also struggle with irons—unless I use an aperture, whereupon I'm terrifying. Then I discovered prism sights. This right here in my opinion is the best option in this price range. It has elements of Elcan, Steiner, Acog, a great warranty, and has a diopter (critical for aging eyes like mine). There is also the Primary Arms prism scopes that have the ACSS reticle—very similar but I have no experience with it. I personally FWIW think these prisms are better than LPVO's

May 13, 2020, 06:15 PM	#8
Desmosedici Member Join Date: April 1, 2016 Location: North Texas Posts: 72	Thank you for the knowledge, Mark & Sweet Shooter, I greatly appreciate it. Presently I am not looking to take it out to longer ranges, but I will likely want to do that in the future. For now, I'm looking for a close to medium range optic. That being said, the Vortex Spitfire 3x Prism looks like it has a great deal of capability for the price. I'm not thrilled about it being made in China, but for the price, it looks like a winner. So does the Aimpoint PRO. Decisions, decisions. My wife eyeballed me last night looking at optics on my Ipad and she mentioned, "More gun stuff??" in a somewhat incredulous tone. You know, I never have such commentary when I observe Amazon boxes on the porch that are addressed to her that I know are, shall we say, personal items. LOL. Ah, but I digress. This is so exciting, though. I'm so pleased to be part of the AR club now!

May 14, 2020, 09:31 PM	#10
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I’m not sure how you or other posters are defining things, so I am going to explain how I am defining things. Red dot - a tube or screen sight where the dot is projected by an LED. Holographic sight - a screen sight where the reticle is projected by lasers. Prism sight - your standard riflescope; but often with minimal magnification. The tube red dot sights are frequently the toughest. The downside is if you have astigmatism, which is common, the “dot” can look irregular. Also, you won’t see any better than you can see with your plain eyes. The plus is if the dot is on the target, that’s where the bullet goes. Bad cheek weld? Don’t care. Eye 12 inches behind the optic? Don’t care. This lets you shoot from very non-traditional positions, use a non-dominant eye, and take maximum advantage of cover. Holographic sights - They have most of the advantages of a red dot; but the reticle doesn't distort if you have astigmatism. Downsides - lasers are more fragile and require more power, so battery life is limited. However, if you know you are going to be assaulting someone else in a close quarters environment (direct action military teams, SWAT), these are the top choice. For general purpose use, the downsides in durability and battery life make it less desirable, than say, an Aimpoint. Prism sights - these are just riflescopes. They may be only 1x; but they still need a solid cheek weld to be effective. Good news is, even at 1x, they usually help you see better. And they are rarely dependent on batteries; but non-traditional shooting positions are a no-go.

May 15, 2020, 07:57 AM	#12
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Read this very short article and you'll know the difference. Just go with the red dot for a handgun (actually I've mounted them on some rifles with great success). http://www.differencebetween.net/tec...raphic-sights/

May 15, 2020, 08:35 PM	#13
Sweet Shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2011 Posts: 672	"Prism sights - these are just riflescopes. They may be only 1x; but they still need a solid cheek weld to be effective. Good news is, even at 1x, they usually help you see better. And they are rarely dependent on batteries; but non-traditional shooting positions are a no-go." Lot's of prisms are fixed magnified. There's another very important thing that most prisms have = No mechanical cross hairs to break. The fixed focus and etched reticle make them some of the toughest on the planet, they probably are the toughest.