The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 23, 2019, 12:29 PM   #1
OhioGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 1,089
Best rifle training at short ranges

I'm looking at getting into the 5.56 world, but in reality 90% of shooting will be done indoors at ranges of 20 yards max. I might occasionally get to an outdoor range in fair weather, maybe a 100 yard max, but those aren't very close to where I live.

What are good shooting drills for indoor distances that could still help me to develop longer range shooting skills?

Shooting indoors with pistols can always be made to be challenging, but running a rifle indoors seems like it would get boring in a hurry.
OhioGuy is offline  
Old October 23, 2019, 12:52 PM   #2
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
Shooting is sight alignment and trigger control. Practice with that at even closer ranges will be beneficial. While at certain distances gauging the wind or having to really work up some ballistic calculations might be necessary, I can set a 50 yd zero on an AR-15 with no magnification and get hits on a man sized target out to 300 yd with boring regularity (from the prone or seated position). There are certainly close in drills you can do on a timer that will work different ready positions or standing, kneeling, and prone and you can learn your hold overs as well shooting at closer ranges. Having the ability to move or work from a barricade is nice, but lacking that you can use the bay to work different supported positions.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 23, 2019, 01:16 PM   #3
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
20 yards is best done with a 5.56 x 15.1R. That'd be a .22 LR. Doing that prone, all the time, does get boring quickly. If you can, shoot off hand and use a proper NRA, 50 foot, .22 target. The 'bull' is 1.464".
These guys sell 'em. https://www.kruger-us-targets.com/in...ification.html
Shooting is breathing, sight picture and trigger control.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old October 23, 2019, 01:20 PM   #4
Ernie Bishop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2019
Posts: 122
Can you shoot prone there?
Ernie Bishop is offline  
Old October 23, 2019, 01:24 PM   #5
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
The issue I take with 22LR is the lack of recoil. I can take my wife out with a 22LR pistol or rifle and she will make excellent groups. When she steps up to something other than 22LR it's a different story. That's not to say there isn't value in a 22LR, both economically and in practice. Deficiencies in fundamentals really show up when shooting 22LR as the lack of flash and blast makes it easier to maintain focus through the course of fire and generally can lead to better groups (making it easier to notice errors). But dealing with recoil both physically and mentally is a factor, imo.

If you do want to go the 22LR route you can still get an AR-15 and get say the CMMG conversion kit or even a dedicated 22LR like the M&P15-22, if you wanted the same manual of arms for practice.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 23, 2019, 01:39 PM   #6
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,868
For a rifle the best range is one you can probably find out in the country! I have seldom ever shot at a regular rifle range.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old October 23, 2019, 03:50 PM   #7
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,706
At 20 yards, I would suggest a .22LR such as a Ruger 10/22 with Tech Sights. Targets of about 0.5 inch diameter. Sight alignment, trigger control, breathing, positioning etc.. are the same with a .22LR as they are anything larger.
Mike38 is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 06:41 AM   #8
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
I'm looking at getting into the 5.56 world, but in reality 90% of shooting will be done indoors at ranges of 20 yards max. I might occasionally get to an outdoor range in fair weather, maybe a 100 yard max, but those aren't very close to where I live.

What are good shooting drills for indoor distances that could still help me to develop longer range shooting skills?

Shooting indoors with pistols can always be made to be challenging, but running a rifle indoors seems like it would get boring in a hurry.
Any National Forest around you? Legal to shoot there with the below restrictions.
https://www.fs.fed.us/visit/know-before-you-go/shooting
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 08:52 AM   #9
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
For 55-grain, M193 ammunition, a typical zero for iron sights is a 50 yard/200 yard zero. That means if you zero at 50 yards on the rising side of the trajectory arc, you also hit zero at 200 yards on the falling side of the trajectory arc.

Plotting that trajectory, the point of impact is -1.23 inches (1.23" below line of sight/point of aim) at 25 yards. At 20 yards, it would be about -1.5 inches.

If the only place you have to practice is an indoor, 20-yard range, use targets with the smallest bullseye possible and regulate your sights such that your groups are centered approximately 1.5 inches below point of aim.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 10:47 AM   #10
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by OG
What are good shooting drills for indoor distances that could still help me to develop longer range shooting skills?

Shooting indoors with pistols can always be made to be challenging, but running a rifle indoors seems like it would get boring in a hurry.
Do you have a 22lr rifle and access to a 25 yard range?

I've participated in 25 and yard offhand shooting using A23 targets. It sounds easy, but in a field of mostly older fellows I'm mediocre. I won't argue that I am improving, but at least now I know I am not quite as good as I once thought.

These gentlemen are uniformly kind and helpful. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...play.php?f=327
zukiphile is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 10:58 AM   #11
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
I suggest a good 22 rimfire rifle and ammo, metallic or scope sights, to start with. You'll learn hand held marksmanship skills faster because the rifle must be held still 3 to 4 times longer than centerfire rifles after the firing pin starts to move.

After you've reached the skill level to have rimfire bullets strike no more than 2 MOA average from where you called it at 20 yards, then switch to centerfire at longer range.

The USA Olympic Rifle Team practices indoors at 50 meters with rimfire 22's. Best for mastering basic marksmanship skills and knowledge. It's fun to put 40 record shots inside 1 MOA slung up in prone with a rimfire 22 at 50 yards.

Last edited by Bart B.; October 24, 2019 at 11:34 AM.
Bart B. is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 01:51 PM   #12
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
Plus, centerfire rifles on an indoor range are awful loud. I know they are a profit center for range operators, made possible by rubber bullet traps, but I hate to get stuck close to one.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 04:22 PM   #13
OhioGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 1,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Plus, centerfire rifles on an indoor range are awful loud. I know they are a profit center for range operators, made possible by rubber bullet traps, but I hate to get stuck close to one.
I know! I've been stuck in a stall between TWO rifles rattling off rounds. I think I felt my organs shifting around inside.

OhioGuy is offline  
Old October 24, 2019, 05:10 PM   #14
Rob228
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2010
Location: Hampstead NC
Posts: 1,450
When you say moving up into the 5.56 world do you mean AR? If you are trying to train like you would fight with an AR get an AR clone .22 and look up the countless CQB type drills on square bay ranges on youtube, it'll give you a good idea. Precision shooting an AR at close range is harder than some think.

If you're looking to improve shooting skills, I would say try to join a local sporterrifle league. Its all 50' unsupported offhand, the rifle with scope must be under 7.5 pounds. I shot 5 years of it growing up and it made me a much better all around shooter.
Rob228 is offline  
Old October 25, 2019, 03:36 PM   #15
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
I'd consider shooting NRA 3 Position. on their 50fo targets. It helps, When I shot for the AK NG Rifle team we couldnt shoot out side during the winter. I used cast bullets in my M14 on the NRA targets. We couldnt use normal rifle bullets at out indoor range. I used a sub cal devise for my M16A1. Follow the small bore rules (except for the rifle) and you'll learn and prefect your fundamentals.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old October 27, 2019, 01:09 AM   #16
armednfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2016
Posts: 211
You can figure out sight settings for longer ranges when you get there. For short range I'd still use the 223, I want the blast and recoil. I'd get some 1000 inch targets and use those. Slow fire iron sights, all sight alignment and trigger control. I would take it off the shoulder and remount each shot.
armednfree is offline  
Old October 29, 2019, 08:05 AM   #17
RaySendero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 857
I like 22LR at 25yds indoors.
Great time to do ammo trials off bench;
Then check your bench POI vs standing.
Also try different sling set-ups standing.
__________________
Ray
RaySendero is offline  
Old October 29, 2019, 10:01 AM   #18
TheGunGeek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 182
If you haven't done positional shooting before, consider attending a Project Appleseed. They are available in OH.
https://appleseedinfo.org/schedule/?...=OH&state=Ohio

For indoors, I'd stick with an AR .22 with scaled down targets to simulate longer ranges. The blast from rifle calibers is too much indoors, and you're not gaining benefits over a .22 at those distances. This will allow you to at least practice fundamentals somewhat, however indoor ranges are usually too restrictive for rifle practice.
TheGunGeek is offline  
Old November 4, 2019, 06:59 AM   #19
13gunhey498
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2017
Posts: 7
guys advise a good store with rifles and which one is better to start familiarization with for a beginner
13gunhey498 is offline  
Old November 4, 2019, 08:39 AM   #20
Bozz10mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2013
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 287
Quote:
guys advise a good store with rifles and which one is better to start familiarization with for a beginner
Assuming you are talking about AR style rifles, I would suggest an M&P 15 Sport or a Ruger AR556. Both are excellent rifles. Where to buy? Try Academy Sports, Cabelas, The Outdoor Super Store.

Another recommendation, if you can order online and if your state allows, is Palmetto State Armory. Look at their Freedom line.
Bozz10mm is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09370 seconds with 8 queries