45-70 shooter advice

[Dano4734]

I am new to the 45-70 and getting ready for a moose hunt. I have my gun sighted in (marlin 1895 22 inch) with Buffalo Bore 8b 405 grains. Beautiful round my scope is dialed in sub moa at 100 three inches high of the bulls eye. Should i leave it, raise it up a bit for the drop or take it dead on. Where do you dial your gun at 100

Thank you

[Paul B.]

What I would do is shoot my rifle at 150, 200 and maybe 250 yards and see where the bullets hit and how they group. I haven't shot a 45-70 for some time now as I sold my 1895 Marlin roughly five years ago. My load was a 330 gr. cast hollow point bullet loaded fairly hot and I had the rifle sighted in at 3" high at 100 as that's how I sight all my hunting rifles. A moose is a pretty big animal so you sight setting should be good to at least 200 yards but testing that load at the different distances should tell the tale as to how far it would be ethical to shoot.
Paul B.

[Dano4734]

Thank you paul. Today I only had access to the 100 yard range, maybe this week I can get to the 200 yard one. Always busy but maybe during the day

[ms6852]

Based on a velocity of 2300 fps a rifle zeroed at 100 yards with a 405 grain bullet will have a bullet drop so 2.93 inches at 150 and 8.66 inches drop at 200 yards. According to the ballistic chart I was looking it. Those velocities seem to be from a ruger #1 not sure. Out of your marlin velocities could be lower so the drop will be more significant.

[Dano4734]

Thank you so much

[Dano4734]

Sounds like I should be good to 150 and that’s my max for moose hunting. Awesome

[jmr40]

I'm a believer in a 100 yard zero with any rifle. With a few exceptions. If you're target shooting at a known range, then zero at that range. Or if you're hunting and know that you'll never get a shot under 200, 300 or whatever. Then zero for that range.

With +3" at 100 you're zeroed at about 140 right now. Hard to say for sure without exact data from YOUR rifle. But assuming you are getting the speeds advertised by Buffalo Bore. You're still going to be 10.6" low at 200 with the zero you have, but will be almost 3.5" high at 50 and 75 yards.

With a 100 yard zero you're only about 6" lower at 200. If you're smart enough to compensate for 10" drop at 200 you can compensate for 16". Your bullet will never be much over 1" high between 50 and about 110 yards with a 100 yard zero. Zeroing at longer ranges doesn't help much at long range, but does complicate things at closer ranges. Where shots are more likely to happen.

Moose are big and shots rarely long. But they are often in very thick brush. Having the bullet over 3" above the line of sight increases the possibility of the bullet striking unseen brush between you and the target. And it is a lot more natural to aim a little high at long range than to remember to hold low at close range. Especially when close range shots usually happen fast with little time to think.

But you still need to actually shoot at those ranges either way to know for sure. The numbers I ran are estimates based on published velocity numbers. The actual speeds you get from your rifle could be significantly different. Running the numbers through a calculator program will give you an idea and probably be close enough to get you on paper at longer ranges, but I'd not start shooting at game at longer ranges than I'd actually shot at the range.

[jmr40]

Based on a velocity of 2300 fps a rifle zeroed at 100 yards with a 405 grain bullet

We were typing at the same time. The only 405 gr BB load I can find is advertised at 1625 fps. That is the number I used with my calculations.

[Dano4734]

You are making a lot of sense I had not thought of that thank you

[mehavey]

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...09&postcount=7......
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...42&postcount=6
... and consider limiting yourself to that load/range band (0 -135 yards)

[Dano4734]

Your point is well taken every one I seen last year was 50-100 yards

[Dufus]

I would say if they show up the same this season, they are in the freezer.

FWIW, I agree with everything mehavey stated. I have been in love with mine (45-70) since the day before I got it.

[fourbore]

Moose are generally taken at short range. I would zero a couple inches high at 100 and if possible test fire at 150 for information only.

If longer ranges are anticipated then I suggest a higher velocity rifle.

[Dano4734]

Thank you all for the great advice

[Dano4734]

Dufus saw lots last year but no legal ones or at least maybe barely. I would never shoot unless I was absolutely sure so I have my fingers crossed. Last year I took my Weatherby 06 but I really want one with the 45-70 . For me it’s more about hunting when I have to be close. More fun at least for me. But boy I would love to fill a freezer. Last year was my first year ever hunting them in Alaska

[fourbore]

Alaska is a different game. I have no idea about those conditions. You are living the dream. Good luck. I do understand about the hunt.

[Dano4734]

My daughter lives moved a couple years ago. I go up and hunt with my son in law and fish in the summer. I should move there I love it. I am retired. If I could get my mrs to agree

[NoSecondBest]

Use this program to figure out where you want to be sighted in at.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html
I've owned and shot eight or nine 45-70s over the last ten years or so. It's become my favorite caliber. One really good suggestion I can make is to get a range finder. They aren't that expensive and you really don't need one with all the bells and whistles. They're all accurate. The 45-70 is like lobbing mortars beyond 150 yards. Knowing the range and your bullet drop will be a great asset. However, as others have said, you'll probably get a shot somewhere under a hundred yards and none of it will matter. I use Rem JSP 405 grain bullets and several different powders. All my loads are between 1400-1550fps and will shoot 1moa at 100 yards. I have yet to recover even one bullet from any deer I've shot from any angle or distance. I have friends who've shot buffalo, moose, caribou, etc who had the same results. Don't try to make it into a flat shooting gun. It's not necessary and you'll end up punishing yourself on your end of the deal. Good luck on your hunt.

[Drm50]

My Moose hunting was restricted to Ontario and that has been years. I wouldn't
shoot at a Moose over 150yds with 45/70. I have same rifle as yours, had it for
40+ years. Like someone said if you are going to be shooting 200-300yds you
need to use a flatter shooting rifle. I shot mine mostly target with 300JHPs. I
have it sighted at 100yds and also have the ranges to the Silo banks marked
on the witness plate of Lyman reciever sight. No problem hitting when you are
dialed in for a known range. I had a scope on it once but I couldn't shot it near
as well as reciver sights. Since 45/70 is now legal deer gun in Ohio I hunt with
it on 100yd mark. Most deer here in SE Ohio are shot less than 100yds because
of rough terrain and thick cover.

[44 AMP]

Based on a velocity of 2300 fps a rifle zeroed at 100 yards with a 405 grain bullet...… Those velocities seem to be from a ruger #1 not sure.

That speed seems too high for a .45-70,even out of a Ruger. I have a Ruger .45-70. Also had a Siamese Mauser and the 1895 Marlin (not the guide gun). I know the limits to the strongest .45-70, and 2300fps with a 400gr bullet is beyond them!! At least with a normal length barrel.

Pushed to the max, and UNSAFE in any other gun, I can just hit 2200fps with a 350gr bullet in a Ruger .45-70. 2300 with a 400gr bullet is .458 Win mag territory, NOT hot .45-70. The modern Marlin, with a 22" tube can run 400s up to about 1800fps at max, and its not even remotely a joy to shoot.

While you can put even hotter loads in your Marlin, what you can't do is get the fired cases out, other than one at a time with a rod. And that pretty much negates the value of the repeater.

people have been dropping moose and bison with 45-70s at black powder
speeds since 1873. I haven't seen any "study" indicating that animals are any more bullet resistant now than they were then...

Plus, while you can significantly up the speed of standard factory loads, you need to be sure to use the right bullet. Speed makes an excellent 400gr slug for the .45-70, but it is built to give controlled expansion at black powder speed (12-1300 fps) and will definitely come apart in an uncontrolled manner if pushed over 16-1700fps. Been there, done that, seen the slugs. And, that same bullet at 2100fps from a .458Win Mag acts very much like a varmint bullet.

The Hornday 350gr is built differently and does hold together well above black powder speeds. Other bullets are similar, some will handle much higher speeds, some won't. Some research is required to match the right bullet with the right max velocity.

Nothing will make the .45-70 shoot flat, and to me, its not worth beating yourself to death to reduce 48" to 42" at a given range. If you can compensate properly for one, you can do it for the other as well.

[Dano4734]

Buffalo bore 8b goes out 2000 fps. I only like it because it’s so accurate in my gun but kicks the crap out of me even with the recoil eraser on it. I will use them only for hunting because of the bear risk if you get one. My marlin and scope has the groups near touching at 100. For deer hunting I am only using the old Remington’s. Have not reloaded anything yet. I won’t shoot much over 100 yards

[T. O'Heir]

Three inches high at 100 is kind of optimistic, but it's more about where you'll be hunting. It's possible that a 200 yard shot at Bullwinkle won't be happening.
Sighted in 4" high at 100, a regular factory 405 grain SP bullet will drop 14.5" at 150, 32" at 200. However, it's more about the remaining energy. That 405 will only have 1001 ft-lbs. at 200 yards.
Really best to sight in dead on at 100 and know how much hold over you need past there. Still not enough energy.
No ballistics published by Buffalo Bore, but their 405 starts at 1925 FPS.(vs roughly 1600 fps.) So it'll drop a bit less. The figures above are out of a 24" barrel too.
A regular lead cored 405 won't ever be at 2300 fps. A Hornady 250 FTX barely breaks 2,000 FPS at 2050. Although Underwood claims 2440 with a 225 solid copper bullet. At $60 per 20.

[Dano4734]

I found the ballistics for buffalo bore 8b on their website. I am resetting to dead on at 100. Every moose i saw last year except for a cow in a field was in the thickest crumminess soggy miserable terrain this old man ever walked through. Been practicing my calling so maybe this year

[Dano4734]

I have time and dies maybe try a reload. I think i have some reloder 7. Any suggestions for a 405 or 400 grain

Oh did I mention biting flies. I swear Alaska has flies that can carry you away or drain your blood with one bite. I love it though

And don’t get me started on devil club. A sea of it last year I took a tumble and picked that out of my behind. Lol even after all the surgeries and heart bypass I am still out there having fun in the bush
My goal in life. Die with a fishing pole in my hand or a rifle but not on the couch at home

[NoSecondBest]

My favorite/best powders with a 405g Rem JSP are Rel 7 and 4198.