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Old January 23, 2011, 01:35 AM   #1
isanchez2008
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Quickload help for 38special please.

If someone is so inclined would you please plug this data in to quickload and see what the pressure and fps says. I would really appreciate it.

38special 4" barrel
158gr Hardcast SWC
6.2-6.6gr Blue Dot
Starline +p brass
CCI 500 primers
1.450" COAL
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Old January 23, 2011, 01:51 AM   #2
rg1
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Don't have Quickload myself but just wanted to say that Blue Dot is one of the worse powders in the reloading manuals for .38 Special that I've ever seen used. Too slow burning, harder to ignite, and gives wild velocity variations. I've seen more than one bullet stuck in the barrel using Blue Dot. A lightly seated bullet with low case neck tension causes the bullet to start forward out of the case from just the primer force. This causes the slow burning Blue Dot to not completely ignite in the larger space left by the bullet moving forward. Not saying you may not have problems with your loads but I don't recommend Blue Dot for .38 Special under any conditions, with any weight bullet. Just be careful watching for different recoil, or a different sound from your test loads, and a chronograph would be helpful to see how consistent your loads are. Good luck with your .38 loads. Just my opinion and my experience.
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Old January 23, 2011, 02:01 AM   #3
Wildalaska
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6.6 calculates you at 11000 psi and 734 fps with a 155 grain SWC.

WildotherpowdersarebetterAlaska ™©2002-2011
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Old January 23, 2011, 03:21 AM   #4
Clark
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Quickload does not know it it is a revolver or a contender.
So the conventional way of measuring revolver barrels does not work.
The distance from the breach face to the muzzle on a 38sp revolver with at 4" barrel is 5.56".

The thing most important about the bullet besides weight and diameter is length. The 158 gr LSWC bullets I have average .7" long. If I plug this into Quickload I get:

38 sp
158 gr LSWC
.7" long bullet
5.56" long barrel
1.45" OAL

6.2 gr Blue Dot
-> 10,678 psi, 799 fps

6.6 gr Blue Dot
-> 12,195 psi, 849 fps
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Old January 23, 2011, 03:27 AM   #5
isanchez2008
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Thank you WildAlaska and Clark.

RG1, my experiences have been quite the opposite but thanks for your opinion anyway.
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Old January 23, 2011, 07:37 AM   #6
SwampYankee
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The other problem with Quickload and revolvers is not only the distance issue, but the cylinder gap. Depending upon when peak pressure occurs, the gap may siphon off enough gas soon enough to drop the pressure. This is probably less likely to happen than the fact that the gap does allow enough gas to escape to reduce the velocity of the bullet. Consequently, Quickload is almost always going to under estimate your velocity if you are using a revolver.
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Old January 23, 2011, 08:29 AM   #7
SL1
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Speer once modified an actual revolver to allow pressure transducer readings of test ammo. They wrote in one of their manuals that the pressure trace in the revolver was quite different from the trace in the SAAMI test barrel with the same ammo.

I guess that is not surprizing, because the real revolver has a lot of "throat", then a gap, then a section of barrel wider than the throat at the beginning of the forcing cone, before things get much like a test or Contender barrel. The bullet initially accelerates in "free-bore" (which should decrease pressure), then slowes down significantly and may even "rivet" in the forcing cone (which may significantly spike pressure), then accelerates down the barrel with the cylinder gap bleeding pressure.

Speer published a table in Manual #13 that compared 3 different test loads in about 20 different guns. Velocities were about the same in the 10" Contender barrel and the 10" SAAMI pressure-test barrel, but about 200 fps less in a 10" barreled Blackhawk. Considering that the Blackhawk barrel plus cylinder was more like a 11.6" barrel, that is quite a difference.

Of course, the same table showes that those loads had velocity differences of something like 100 fps among the 7 revolvers with 4" barrels and about 200 fps among the 9 revolvers with 6" barrels. So, comparison of the test barrel with only the one 10" revolver barrel in their table doesn't really allow us to compute a difference that is likely to be applicable convert test barrel data to revolver velocities for any other revolver.

And, of course that also applies to QuickLOAD calculations.

If you are intending to try to make a .38 Special load to meet a power factor required by the rules for some sport like IDPA, you will need to chronograph your loads to have any confidence that you are within the rules. (In that regard, you can make "minor" with standard loads, but probably need to go a little above the "+P" in the .38 Special to make "major." Not a problem in revolvers also chambered for the .357 Magnum cartridge.)

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Old January 23, 2011, 11:59 PM   #8
Clark
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I can add some red herrings and hear-say

I have cut threads and a long forcing cone on a barrel and screwed it into a revolver frame.

I can cock the hammer, and then screw in the barrel a fraction of a turn, and there is no cylinder gap. I then fire it, and then have to loosen the barrel to advance the cylinder.

I have done that, but have not done any controlled tested to find the effect of cylinder gap.

Just reading on the internet, it seems the the cylinder gap itself does not change the velocity much. That is counter intuitive. But it does cause some top strap gas cutting, which I have seen.

I have also seen, on the internet, a picture of a hand supposedly cut by cylinder gap gas.
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Old January 24, 2011, 01:12 AM   #9
zippy13
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I don't know if Blue Dot is the worst powder selection for the .38 Spcl, but as rg1 indicated it's not on the go-to list. Alliant, the folks who make Blue Dot, don't have a .38 Spcl load with it in their Reloader's Guide. For a performance load, with an Alliant powder, consider Power Pistol. Or, for an efficient load (to save on powder $$$), consider Bullseye in the .38 Spcl. Of course, if you have a quantity of Blue Dot to burn up, then go for it. I think of it as a powder for boomer shot shell loads and large capacity magnum handguns. YMMV.
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Old January 25, 2011, 01:53 AM   #10
isanchez2008
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Thanks zippy for your opinion. It may not be on your "go-to list" but thats your choice.
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