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Old April 21, 2017, 07:18 AM   #1
black_hog_down
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Sanity check - new to reloading. 44 Magnum.

H110. 29 grains. 180 grain XTP.
Ruger 44 carbine.
This is supposed to be the starting load but the case seems pretty full. Max load of 31.5 seems like it wouldn't fit.


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Old April 21, 2017, 07:31 AM   #2
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OK,
First off are we sure we measured and weighed the charge properly?
Hodgdon data shows 1700 fps -though out of an 8 1/2" barrel I find it hard to see how you get nearly 400 more fps out of a short carbine barrel-it is possible but I don't have enough experience with velocity gain in a rifle barrel to say definitively.

Second, if the weight is correct, try tapping the case when filling the powder to get it to settle or use a drop tube - plenty of data to show you can get better fill volume doing so.

Third, any signs of primer changes due to overpressure ?

That's the extent of my thoughts.

Gary
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Old April 21, 2017, 07:34 AM   #3
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Those numbers are from the Hodgdon website. I have not shot these yet. I was careful loading them. I only did 10 and I took my time.

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Old April 21, 2017, 07:35 AM   #4
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I should mention that all powder measure was done by hand using those little plastic scoops and a powder dropper.

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Old April 21, 2017, 07:37 AM   #5
Whisper 300
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Stand corrected on velocity gains in rifle barrels-further "googling" reveals upwards of 4 to 500 fps gains out of carbine length barrels versus pistols of normal barrel length

Try to get the powder to settle a bit in the case.

I also saw the Hodgdon data and will assume it is safe and usable in any well made firearm.

Gary
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Old April 21, 2017, 07:53 AM   #6
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When you say that "all powder measure was done by hand using those little plastic scoops and a powder dropper", do you mean that you dipped then weighed on a real scale or are you saying that you dipped and are assuming that the weight stated on the dipper is correct?
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Old April 21, 2017, 08:03 AM   #7
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Dipped on to a scale by hand using the scoops. Then powder dropper to exactly 29.0 on the scale.

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Old April 21, 2017, 08:07 AM   #8
HiBC
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I'm not going to verify your charge weight numbers. I tend to check more than one source.
What does the Hornady book say?
While dippers can give good results, IMO they need to be verified with a scale.
Best practice is to verify your scale with a test weight,too.

OOPS! You verified using a scale while I was typing.
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Old April 21, 2017, 08:08 AM   #9
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I no longer shoot the .44 but I did shoot quite a bit in handguns. 25.0 of 296/H110 with a 240 gr bullet and 24.0 with a 245 cast bullet. Looks to me like you could load 30.0 grs with the shorter bullet. Shoot them over a chronograph to see what actual velocity is, it's the only way to tell. Some loads shown in the manuals are off quite a bit in real life with real guns.
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Old April 21, 2017, 08:18 AM   #10
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Hornady book does not list H110 for a 180 gr bullet.

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Old April 21, 2017, 10:45 AM   #11
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Old Hornady #4 manual lists 180gr XTP with H110 at 27.8gr starting for 1,300fps, and 31.5gr MAX at 1,700fps...

This from a Ruger Super Blackhawk with 7.5" barrel...
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Old April 21, 2017, 11:13 AM   #12
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Checked QuickLoad, and that's about right. I recall running my brother's commercial loads over the chrono (Handi Rifle), and I was amazed when it ran well over 2,000 (don't have the numbers now). I was thinking 240s, but he was shooting 180 or 185 commercial. He put a big hole through a Pennsylvania whitetail with it. That rifle runs 1,850 with 240 XTP over a max load of H110.
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Old April 21, 2017, 11:29 AM   #13
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Black hog down In reference of your powder in the 44 case. Usually the load book will tell you weather the load is for a pistol or rifle. Rifles generally will take hotter loads.

After you weigh your powder charge on the scale. You might need to slowly pour your powder into the case wile gently shaking the powder to help settle it down in the case. Also a long drop tube will help. All though your starting loads usually don't need to be compressed by the powder.

I suggest that you double check your loading information. You could have the wrong pullet or powder weight...
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Old April 21, 2017, 12:08 PM   #14
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I just came from my loading room. I opened my bottle of H110 and could see that fine ball powder isn't going to compress much. All though I had found it to be a excellent accuracy powder for my 225 Gr. slug at 24.0 gr.

I also found a reference for H-110 for 180 Gr. slug at 29.0 gr.

I then poured 29.0 gr. of H-110 into a 44 Mag. case. There was close to 1/4" of space remaining in the case to seat the 180 Gr. bullet. It's of for the bullet to sit on the powder but avoid compressing the powder unless the manual makes a note of it being ok. Of course the bullet should be crimped well on the crimping groove.

At this point since I don't have your rifle or your bullet I suggest that you load the bullet and see if the round will cycle through your Ruger magazine and load into the chamber. Note the COAL in your data to be safe.
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Old April 21, 2017, 12:13 PM   #15
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Thanks you guys. Very kind of you to take time out of your day to help a noob.
Because I was concerned - I had already checked the scale, the powder, the load data, other internet sites, weighed the bullets, AND checked the OAL.
OAL was 1.6" just like it should be.

I think I'm good. Just wanted to double check. I'll shoot them tonight and report back. Thanks again!

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Old April 21, 2017, 12:18 PM   #16
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IMO there is a reason Hornady doesn't list h110 for the 180 XTP.

Ignoring this, I loaded some up recently ( still have some left ) with 30 grains h110 and they flattened some of my primers but not all. ( Win WLP )

I think there are better choices of powder for this particular bullet weight and will use them in the future over the h110.

Have fun.

FWIW, QL says my 30 grains load is over pressure by 2400 psi. While Hodgdon seems to think it's fine listing a max load of: 31.5 grains.

Start low, work up.....
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Old April 21, 2017, 12:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Hornady book does not list H110 for a 180 gr bullet.
No they don't but the Hornady 9th does list H-110 for their 200 grain XTP and for that bullet, loading H-110 they reflect 22.6 grains as a Start and a Maximum Load of 29.3. With the lighter 180 grain XTP I can see similar loads being safe and effective. Their test rifle was a Ruger 44 Carbine same as you are using.

Slightly off topic I have a Ruger 44 Carbine and it was my favorite W. Virginia go to hunting rifle. Over all the years I tried a variety of bullets and always ended up going back to the standard 240 grain Hornady and Speer flavors. Maybe you will do better with the 180 grain lighter bullets than I did. I always liked using Magnum Primers with the ball type or spherical type powders too.

Ron

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Old April 21, 2017, 12:55 PM   #18
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"...out of an 8 1/2" barrel..." That'd be handgun data. The rifle data used a 20", 1 in 38, barrel that gives 2170 FPS with the start loadfor a 180 jacketed that just happened to be an XTP.
Your sanity is fine. The Max rifle load will fit with no fuss. It's not a compressed load(nothing to worry about anyway.). So it just looks too full. With the OAL at 1.6".
"...Dipped onto a scale..." Best use for the silly scoops.
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Old April 21, 2017, 12:57 PM   #19
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Second, if the weight is correct, try tapping the case when filling the powder to get it to settle or use a drop tube - plenty of data to show you can get better fill volume doing so.
H110 is so fine that it does not pack much by drop tube or tapping.

Quite a few of published loads are compressed.

Use magnum primers.
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Old April 21, 2017, 01:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Use magnum primers.
And a firm crimp...
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Old April 21, 2017, 02:36 PM   #21
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Years ago there were several double based powder dealers that warned against compressed loads with double based powders. One caution was poor ignition and the other was for extreme pressures. The other warning was not to use with light bullets due to inconsistent pressures. Heavy bullets and heavy crimps are recommended. With poor ignition you could easily end up with secondary explosions so unless things have changed don't compress any double based powders.
296/H110 were often listed with the warnings. They are still the best accuracy powders for 357 and 44 magnum loads. As for heavy bullets, I use 140 grain in my 357 without a problem. In my gun it is the most accurate load I have found.
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Old April 21, 2017, 03:21 PM   #22
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Here is Hodgdon's view on compressed loads:

"Hodgdon notes in its reloading data if the subject charge is a compressed load. A full case, or lightly compressed charge is an ideal condition for creating loads with the most uniform velocities and pressures, and oftentimes, producing top accuracy."

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/relo...mpressed-loads
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Old April 21, 2017, 11:09 PM   #23
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Shot one. Does the primer look a little flat to you?


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Old April 22, 2017, 01:41 AM   #24
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Quote:
IMO there is a reason Hornady doesn't list h110 for the 180 XTP.
Yes, I'm sure there is a reason, but you better ask Hornady what it is, because it's NOT because H-110 isn't suitable.

I base this opinion on the fact that on the very same page they DO list H-110 with the 200gr XTP, and with other heavier bullets.

ALSO because the same Hornady manual I grabbed (the 7th,) does list H-110 with the 180gr XTP bullet in their .44 AMP data.

Sometimes, a reloading manual does NOT list every possible combination. Sometimes, some powders are not listed, not because they are totally unsuitable, but because the testers did not get the desired results from their test gun. Sometimes some powders are not listed simply because they weren't tested with the bullet in question.

Looking at the manual I have I see 9 powders listed with the 180gr XTP, 12 listed with the 200gr XTP, 13 listed with the 240gr XTP, 8 listed for the 265gr XTP and 10 listed for the 300gr XTP.

Think about that. Yes, there is a lot of overlap, but there are also powders in some of the shorter lists that are not in the longer ones.

If you want to know why Hornady doesn't list a certain powder with a certain bullet in a certain cartridge, ask THEM. Don't assume that because they didn't list it, that there is no safe load. That MIGHT be the case, or it might be that they just didn't test that combination.

Oh, and that primer looks fine to me...
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Old April 22, 2017, 06:16 AM   #25
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So... Some level of flattening is to be expected. Mine looks like the second one in this picture I found.
This is the starting load from Hogdgon. Seems like if I went up to the 31 grain max they would really flatten.
This is large pistol primer. Are magnum primers tougher?

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