Rifle Barrels

Poconolg · February 19, 2020, 04:41 PM

How would everyone out there rate these barrels for accuracy

Lilja
Douglas
Krieger
Bartlein

I am considering my next barrel. I shoot 22-250 currently with my second Lilja barrel. The first one shot better. At 100 yds I was always below 1/2". The current one only below 1/2" half the time. The rifle is a Rem 700 with a Jewel trigger. Case prep and ammo has been the same. Current barrel is 26" long 1-14 twist. Leaning towards Douglas. I would like some opinions. Thanks for any

hooligan1 · February 19, 2020, 07:19 PM

If your using a sporter contour then Douglas is great, but if I were to use a heavier barrel for longer range, the Bartlein barrels are hard to beat.

kilotanker22 · February 19, 2020, 07:56 PM

I believe Krieger currently holds the smallest group record for 100 yards. I know that doesn't mean everyone is like that, but you don't set world records with crap equipment.

Scorch · February 20, 2020, 12:46 AM

Any one of those barrels would be a fine barrel. I prefer Lilja when I build for customers, but Bartlein, Krieger and Douglas make very good barrels as well. Most of the top tier barrel makers turn out excellent products that are very close in quality. Prices are also very similar.

Poconolg · February 20, 2020, 05:42 AM

I am using a straight barrel 1.125 outside diameter

bedlamite · February 20, 2020, 10:22 AM

With those choices, get the one you want. The smith who builds it will make a bigger difference at this point.

Jim Watson · February 20, 2020, 10:34 AM

I don't know much, my only after market barrels are a Pac Nor which is good and a Krieger which is excellent.
My Long Range friend is now using Bartlein.

T. O'Heir · February 20, 2020, 01:36 PM

Don't think you(or anybody else) would be able to tell the difference given just the barrel. There's a great deal more involved. A lot depends on what you're doing with it too. Question is, Why are you frequently changing barrels?
Anyway, I knew a guy, years ago, who built a custom 17.5 pound, .300 Win Mag, on a Win M70 action, using a Douglas Premium SS barrel. He regularly won 1,000 yard "any rifle any sight" DCRA(Dominion of Canada Rifle Association) matches with it. Mind you, in those days, there was Douglas and nobody else.

Colorado Redneck · February 20, 2020, 07:33 PM

Might consider a faster twist. Maybe 12.

Nathan · February 20, 2020, 08:52 PM

If I were you, and I’m not....I would buy
Kreiger
Bartlein
Lilja
Douglas

In that order. I prefer cut rifling and match winning results...

That said, there are probably 20 barrel makers that could extract best accuracy from your 22-250. I would pick a bullet I wanted to shoot and set my twist & throat based on that. Maybe 75gr slugs with a 1:9 twist?

std7mag · February 21, 2020, 07:33 AM

It would depend...
Do you want cut rifling, or is button ok?

Douglas is going to be by far your cheapest one of the bunch, and right now they are saying 2 week turn around.

I for the most part am building hunting rifles, but i am planning a custom range rifle soon.
I'm going to use my same barrel maker for that build also.
E.R. Shaw.
Local to me in PA. (just below Pittsburgh)
Accuracy is quite good with the ones i've gotten thus far, along with appearance.
The bad is 8-12 week turn around times.

reynolds357 · February 21, 2020, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poconolg

How would everyone out there rate these barrels for accuracy

Lilja
Douglas
Krieger
Bartlein

I am considering my next barrel. I shoot 22-250 currently with my second Lilja barrel. The first one shot better. At 100 yds I was always below 1/2". The current one only below 1/2" half the time. The rifle is a Rem 700 with a Jewel trigger. Case prep and ammo has been the same. Current barrel is 26" long 1-14 twist. Leaning towards Douglas. I would like some opinions. Thanks for any

Douglas should not be in the discussion. The other 3 are equals of each other.
I assume the action is blue printed?

FrankenMauser · February 21, 2020, 11:37 AM

I agree.
Knock Douglas down a peg or two, and the others are all good.
Which I would recommend going with just depends on what you want and when you want it.

Quote:

E.R. Shaw.

There's always someone that has to throw a tomato stake into a discussion about fine shootin' iron.

std7mag · February 21, 2020, 03:01 PM

That would be me...

Hey, i like to be different!
As i've said before, for my hunting profile barrels, they are more accurate than i am.
Their bluing is beautifully done.

Planning a 7mm WSSM, hopefully 30" for range use. Just to be me..

Bart B. · February 21, 2020, 04:53 PM

Whatever you choose, be sure its groove diameter is at least .0004" less than your bullet diameter. If best accuracy is most important.

Don Fischer · February 21, 2020, 05:09 PM

I have a match grade Shilen on my 6.5x06, it shoot's very small group's with 140gr SMK bullet's. My 6.5x55 is a Mod 70 Win with a factory barrel. It doesn't shoot like my 6.5x06 but it does go well under an inch! Have a Mossberg Patriot in 243 with a Mossberg barrel. Shoot's 70 SMK's almost but not quite as good as the 6.5x06 shoot's 140gr SMK's. I don't recall what the Shilen barrel cost me but installed on my 700 action and in my original 700 stock I have about $600 in it. My Patriot cost me right at $350 for the complete rifle!

Nathan · February 21, 2020, 07:33 PM

I am in the middle of 2 custom builds right now....

The first is a Savage 12, 300 WSM long range tactical rifle in chassis with a premium trigger. It is getting a Rock Creek....premium cut rifled barrel. I want consistency at around 0.5moa.

The second is an M70 action 30-06 type round in a McMillan or B&C stock....it will likely get a McGowen or Shilen barrel. I would like to see consistency at around 0.75moa.

Obviously better is better, but those are my expectations and I think they are reasonable for my builds.

Skwib · February 21, 2020, 08:18 PM

Am re-engaging in building a replica M40. Which barrel maker would would you lean towards?

reynolds357 · February 21, 2020, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by std7mag

That would be me...

Hey, i like to be different!
As i've said before, for my hunting profile barrels, they are more accurate than i am.
Their bluing is beautifully done.

Planning a 7mm WSSM, hopefully 30" for range use. Just to be me..

If you build a 30" 7 WSSM, you are truly an oddball.

std7mag · February 21, 2020, 11:29 PM

Not too many of us shooting 115gr Berger VLD in their 250 Savage either.

old roper · February 22, 2020, 04:15 AM

I've got rifles with Krieger,Bartlein,Brux,Rock Creek,K&P,Lilja,Broughton and few others. At a trade show Mel Forbes had a booth and my wife liked his model 24. This was before he sold out to Colt. Forbes barrel choice was Douglas. We got rifle 1989 and with reloads it shot pretty good. She hunted with it couple years took break then I put Kreiger on it and it's on it's 2nd Kreiger.

At the time a SS Douglas xx barrel was pretty close to Kreiger cost. I know of a gunsmith east coast that build BR using Douglas barrels and they won few. His name was Micky Coleman and he build my 223 but used K&P barrel and he passed away few years ago.

We had member in our gun club using Douglas barrel and they like them.

hooligan1 · February 22, 2020, 08:36 AM

All four Douglas barrels I have are very good shooters, . 1 #3, 2# 2's and a number 5 varmint contour..

Don Fischer · February 22, 2020, 01:53 PM

It would be a pretty good bet that at any given time, every barrel on the list would out preform the rest of them!

**Unclenick** · February 22, 2020, 03:54 PM

Douglas uses button rifling, which some object to, but they also stress-relieve their barrels, which eliminates the main complaint people have about button-rifled production barrels, which is the bore expanding when they cut the outside contour thinner. That happens without stress-relief. I bought one of their xx blanks to build a 6.5-284, and it shot a number of cloverleaves off the bench when it was new. IIRC, I think it was Bill Calfee who wrote years ago to slug a blank in both directions. If one end feels a little tighter than the other, make that end the muzzle. Absent any tightness, if one direction feels like it offers a little less resistance than the other, that's the direction you want your bullets to go in. You can ask Douglas, but unless they have special undersized buttons, you won't be able to get the bore and groove diameters just under bullet size.

Obermeyer has the 5R rifling for match barrels. He developed it for the M24 sniper system, IIRC, and while I've not heard that sniper system is necessarily more accurate than some others, I can say I've read two reports of extraordinary barrel life from them. That can be a fluke, but it's out there as a possibility. I am planning to try one of these barrels the next time I need one.

std7mag · February 22, 2020, 05:37 PM

Melvin Forbes still uses a 24" 1.5 contour Douglas barrel on his rifles.

Is Pac-Nor rebuilding after their fire?
I always wanted to try one of their polygonal rifled barrels!

February 19, 2020, 04:41 PM	#1
Poconolg Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2015 Posts: 171	Rifle Barrels How would everyone out there rate these barrels for accuracy Lilja Douglas Krieger Bartlein I am considering my next barrel. I shoot 22-250 currently with my second Lilja barrel. The first one shot better. At 100 yds I was always below 1/2". The current one only below 1/2" half the time. The rifle is a Rem 700 with a Jewel trigger. Case prep and ammo has been the same. Current barrel is 26" long 1-14 twist. Leaning towards Douglas. I would like some opinions. Thanks for any

February 19, 2020, 07:19 PM	#2
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	If your using a sporter contour then Douglas is great, but if I were to use a heavier barrel for longer range, the Bartlein barrels are hard to beat. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

February 20, 2020, 12:46 AM	#4
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Any one of those barrels would be a fine barrel. I prefer Lilja when I build for customers, but Bartlein, Krieger and Douglas make very good barrels as well. Most of the top tier barrel makers turn out excellent products that are very close in quality. Prices are also very similar. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 20, 2020, 10:22 AM	#6
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	With those choices, get the one you want. The smith who builds it will make a bigger difference at this point. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

February 20, 2020, 01:36 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Don't think you(or anybody else) would be able to tell the difference given just the barrel. There's a great deal more involved. A lot depends on what you're doing with it too. Question is, Why are you frequently changing barrels? Anyway, I knew a guy, years ago, who built a custom 17.5 pound, .300 Win Mag, on a Win M70 action, using a Douglas Premium SS barrel. He regularly won 1,000 yard "any rifle any sight" DCRA(Dominion of Canada Rifle Association) matches with it. Mind you, in those days, there was Douglas and nobody else. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 19, 2020, 07:56 PM	#3
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	I believe Krieger currently holds the smallest group record for 100 yards. I know that doesn't mean everyone is like that, but you don't set world records with crap equipment. __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

February 20, 2020, 05:42 AM	#5
Poconolg Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2015 Posts: 171	I am using a straight barrel 1.125 outside diameter

February 20, 2020, 10:34 AM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I don't know much, my only after market barrels are a Pac Nor which is good and a Krieger which is excellent. My Long Range friend is now using Bartlein.

February 20, 2020, 07:33 PM	#9
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Might consider a faster twist. Maybe 12.

February 20, 2020, 08:52 PM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	If I were you, and I’m not....I would buy Kreiger Bartlein Lilja Douglas In that order. I prefer cut rifling and match winning results... That said, there are probably 20 barrel makers that could extract best accuracy from your 22-250. I would pick a bullet I wanted to shoot and set my twist & throat based on that. Maybe 75gr slugs with a 1:9 twist?

February 21, 2020, 07:33 AM	#11
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	It would depend... Do you want cut rifling, or is button ok? Douglas is going to be by far your cheapest one of the bunch, and right now they are saying 2 week turn around. I for the most part am building hunting rifles, but i am planning a custom range rifle soon. I'm going to use my same barrel maker for that build also. E.R. Shaw. Local to me in PA. (just below Pittsburgh) Accuracy is quite good with the ones i've gotten thus far, along with appearance. The bad is 8-12 week turn around times. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

February 21, 2020, 03:01 PM	#14
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	That would be me... Hey, i like to be different! As i've said before, for my hunting profile barrels, they are more accurate than i am. Their bluing is beautifully done. Planning a 7mm WSSM, hopefully 30" for range use. Just to be me.. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

February 21, 2020, 04:53 PM	#15
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Whatever you choose, be sure its groove diameter is at least .0004" less than your bullet diameter. If best accuracy is most important.

February 21, 2020, 05:09 PM	#16
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	I have a match grade Shilen on my 6.5x06, it shoot's very small group's with 140gr SMK bullet's. My 6.5x55 is a Mod 70 Win with a factory barrel. It doesn't shoot like my 6.5x06 but it does go well under an inch! Have a Mossberg Patriot in 243 with a Mossberg barrel. Shoot's 70 SMK's almost but not quite as good as the 6.5x06 shoot's 140gr SMK's. I don't recall what the Shilen barrel cost me but installed on my 700 action and in my original 700 stock I have about $600 in it. My Patriot cost me right at $350 for the complete rifle!

February 21, 2020, 07:33 PM	#17
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	I am in the middle of 2 custom builds right now.... The first is a Savage 12, 300 WSM long range tactical rifle in chassis with a premium trigger. It is getting a Rock Creek....premium cut rifled barrel. I want consistency at around 0.5moa. The second is an M70 action 30-06 type round in a McMillan or B&C stock....it will likely get a McGowen or Shilen barrel. I would like to see consistency at around 0.75moa. Obviously better is better, but those are my expectations and I think they are reasonable for my builds.

February 21, 2020, 08:18 PM	#18
Skwib Member Join Date: February 8, 2020 Posts: 17	Am re-engaging in building a replica M40. Which barrel maker would would you lean towards?

February 21, 2020, 11:29 PM	#20
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Not too many of us shooting 115gr Berger VLD in their 250 Savage either. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

February 22, 2020, 04:15 AM	#21
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	I've got rifles with Krieger,Bartlein,Brux,Rock Creek,K&P,Lilja,Broughton and few others. At a trade show Mel Forbes had a booth and my wife liked his model 24. This was before he sold out to Colt. Forbes barrel choice was Douglas. We got rifle 1989 and with reloads it shot pretty good. She hunted with it couple years took break then I put Kreiger on it and it's on it's 2nd Kreiger. At the time a SS Douglas xx barrel was pretty close to Kreiger cost. I know of a gunsmith east coast that build BR using Douglas barrels and they won few. His name was Micky Coleman and he build my 223 but used K&P barrel and he passed away few years ago. We had member in our gun club using Douglas barrel and they like them. __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

February 22, 2020, 08:36 AM	#22
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	All four Douglas barrels I have are very good shooters, . 1 #3, 2# 2's and a number 5 varmint contour.. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

February 22, 2020, 01:53 PM	#23
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	It would be a pretty good bet that at any given time, every barrel on the list would out preform the rest of them!

February 22, 2020, 03:54 PM	#24
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Douglas uses button rifling, which some object to, but they also stress-relieve their barrels, which eliminates the main complaint people have about button-rifled production barrels, which is the bore expanding when they cut the outside contour thinner. That happens without stress-relief. I bought one of their xx blanks to build a 6.5-284, and it shot a number of cloverleaves off the bench when it was new. IIRC, I think it was Bill Calfee who wrote years ago to slug a blank in both directions. If one end feels a little tighter than the other, make that end the muzzle. Absent any tightness, if one direction feels like it offers a little less resistance than the other, that's the direction you want your bullets to go in. You can ask Douglas, but unless they have special undersized buttons, you won't be able to get the bore and groove diameters just under bullet size. Obermeyer has the 5R rifling for match barrels. He developed it for the M24 sniper system, IIRC, and while I've not heard that sniper system is necessarily more accurate than some others, I can say I've read two reports of extraordinary barrel life from them. That can be a fluke, but it's out there as a possibility. I am planning to try one of these barrels the next time I need one. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 22, 2020, 05:37 PM	#25
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Melvin Forbes still uses a 24" 1.5 contour Douglas barrel on his rifles. Is Pac-Nor rebuilding after their fire? I always wanted to try one of their polygonal rifled barrels! __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...