Why the US needs Australian type Firearm Laws

Eoin · February 27, 2018, 06:40 PM

Disgrace: Victorian pensioner found guilty for defending herself with firearm, Victoria police destroy gun.

"Sixty-nine-year-old Margot Marshall was charged with assault with a weapon, carrying a firearm in an unsafe manner and failing to comply with her gun licence conditions after she grabbed her single-barrel shotgun to face three people she feared were intruders who had driven on to her property at Wooragee, in North East Victoria [Australia], late on Saturday April 15. [2017]

http://www.firearmownersunited.com/2...e-destroy-gun/

See the benefits, if you drive into somebody's property at night and act just a bit suspiciously, like driving to the barn instead of the house, then you will be protected by the law and dangerous elderly women alone, won't be able to face you with an unloaded gun.

Do you need the Second Amendment when you could adopt the benefits of Australian Law?

FITASC · February 27, 2018, 06:54 PM

How are the knife attacks going? Are they as bad as London yet?

**Tom Servo** · February 27, 2018, 07:57 PM

Well, the simplest rebuttal is this: we're not Australia. There are far too many differences in culture, demographics, economics, and innumerable other factors for any comparison to be valid.

As for the success of Australia's gun laws? Lies.

The great buyback of 1996 can only boast a 19% compliance rate. As for the guns actually turned in, the majority were not "military style weapons," but innocuous, "low risk" guns.

Actual effects on violent crime were negligible and at times too small to measure.

As for suicides, Australia's rate is 12.6/100K vs. ours of 13/100K.

TDL · February 27, 2018, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Well, the simplest rebuttal is this: we're not Australia. There are far too many differences in culture, demographics, economics, and innumerable other factors for any comparison to be valid.

Indeed there are many areas of the US that match Australia in demographics such as income, education, employment levels that have very high gun ownership rate, virtually no gun laws and murder rates no different than Australia's.

Australia also has lower thresholds for warrants, some warrants can be signed off by a police Sargent instead of a judge, more evidence found in a search can be introduced, lower exclusions in general, failure to give ID with no reasonable suspicion or cause is grounds for suspicion, easier stop and frisk thresholds, and lower thresholds to detain for suspicion of mental illness and lower thresholds to commit for the same, and a host of minor relative lower criminal justice and privacy protections that aggregate to a significant lower set of what we have in our Fourth and fifth Amendments.

Quote:

As for the success of Australia's gun laws? Lies.

Agreed. Since the US and Australia's 1990's peaks in homicide, the US has had a bigger decline than Australia. Opposite policy and affect on guns, yet the Australia has had about a 43% decline in homicide rate, and the US had more than 50% decline.

On suicide all the self congratulations on reducing suicide was shown as a total lie by no less than six peer reviewed studies by suicide experts in Australia. This was well covered in Senate hearing in Australia and the press there, even though US researchers keep using ABS (Australian Bureau of statistics) comparing pre gun control number with todays numbers --when ABS itself says you cannot do that because of huge new undercounts introduced in 1996.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/lif...0820-es3p.html

WyMark · February 27, 2018, 08:56 PM

Sorry Eoin,

You really need to use the [Sarcasm]... [/Sarcasm] tag on a post like that, otherwise it just goes right over peoples heads.

Jim Watson · February 27, 2018, 09:03 PM

Not many other countries have an essentially uncontrolled border, unassimilated immigrants, and large disaffected minorities. (Although the fine civilized nations of Europe are working hard at it.)

ATN082268 · February 28, 2018, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

As for the success of Australia's gun laws? Lies.

The great buyback of 1996 can only boast a 19% compliance rate. As for the guns actually turned in, the majority were not "military style weapons," but innocuous, "low risk" guns.

So if Australia has a compliance rate of 19% for gun grabs, err gun buybacks, what do you think the compliance rate would be for the U.S.?

Bartholomew Roberts · February 28, 2018, 09:29 AM

Not to mention that even if you managed to duplicate Australia’s grab of 700,000 firearms AND every one of them were semi-autos, you still wouldn’t make any meaningful dent in the numbers. Just AR15s alone are selling almost 1 million a year. Heck, you could repeat that process every year and it would be 50 years or more before ypu started to substantially reduce even semi-autos.

Tom2 · February 28, 2018, 11:20 AM

I don't like comparisons to other countries. The way they do things in other countries is the reason that people originally came here. And it is because of us, that reforms eventually happened in other countries. I suspect that if we had never bucked the monarchy and become independent, that today alot of the world would still be under kings and emperors. Our success is what triggered the changes IMO. I cannot imagine Europe being like it is today without our revolution. Sadly there are some backsliders amongst us.

SIGSHR · February 28, 2018, 02:57 PM

IMHO Australia needs US style laws-from a strong RKBA state. It's time for them to start imitating US !

February 27, 2018, 06:40 PM	#1
Eoin Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 11	Why the US needs Australian type Firearm Laws Disgrace: Victorian pensioner found guilty for defending herself with firearm, Victoria police destroy gun. "Sixty-nine-year-old Margot Marshall was charged with assault with a weapon, carrying a firearm in an unsafe manner and failing to comply with her gun licence conditions after she grabbed her single-barrel shotgun to face three people she feared were intruders who had driven on to her property at Wooragee, in North East Victoria [Australia], late on Saturday April 15. [2017] http://www.firearmownersunited.com/2...e-destroy-gun/ See the benefits, if you drive into somebody's property at night and act just a bit suspiciously, like driving to the barn instead of the house, then you will be protected by the law and dangerous elderly women alone, won't be able to face you with an unloaded gun. Do you need the Second Amendment when you could adopt the benefits of Australian Law?

February 27, 2018, 06:54 PM	#2
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	How are the knife attacks going? Are they as bad as London yet? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

February 27, 2018, 07:57 PM	#3
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Well, the simplest rebuttal is this: we're not Australia. There are far too many differences in culture, demographics, economics, and innumerable other factors for any comparison to be valid. As for the success of Australia's gun laws? Lies. The great buyback of 1996 can only boast a 19% compliance rate. As for the guns actually turned in, the majority were not "military style weapons," but innocuous, "low risk" guns. Actual effects on violent crime were negligible and at times too small to measure. As for suicides, Australia's rate is 12.6/100K vs. ours of 13/100K. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

February 28, 2018, 11:20 AM	#9
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	I don't like comparisons to other countries. The way they do things in other countries is the reason that people originally came here. And it is because of us, that reforms eventually happened in other countries. I suspect that if we had never bucked the monarchy and become independent, that today alot of the world would still be under kings and emperors. Our success is what triggered the changes IMO. I cannot imagine Europe being like it is today without our revolution. Sadly there are some backsliders amongst us. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

February 27, 2018, 08:56 PM	#5
WyMark Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 647	Sorry Eoin, You really need to use the [Sarcasm]... [/Sarcasm] tag on a post like that, otherwise it just goes right over peoples heads.

February 27, 2018, 09:03 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Not many other countries have an essentially uncontrolled border, unassimilated immigrants, and large disaffected minorities. (Although the fine civilized nations of Europe are working hard at it.)

February 28, 2018, 09:29 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Not to mention that even if you managed to duplicate Australia’s grab of 700,000 firearms AND every one of them were semi-autos, you still wouldn’t make any meaningful dent in the numbers. Just AR15s alone are selling almost 1 million a year. Heck, you could repeat that process every year and it would be 50 years or more before ypu started to substantially reduce even semi-autos.

February 28, 2018, 02:57 PM	#10
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	IMHO Australia needs US style laws-from a strong RKBA state. It's time for them to start imitating US !