1X Prism Scopes and Magnifiers?

[BluRidgDav]

The Primary Arms 1X Cyclops prism scope can be used with a magnifier, and iron sights can be aimed through the scope just like most 1X red-dot sights. (The magnifier must be flipped out of the way, of course.) PA credits their diopter adjustment ring on the ocular end of the scope for making this possible. PA makes an inexpensive magnifier, but, some internet reviewers recommend buying one from another company, such as: Burris, VorTex, or EOTech.

Likewise, the Burris AR-1X prism scope can be used with a magnifier, and Burris even once sold it as a "combo-kit" that included their AR-Tripler 3X magnifier. No mention is made of a diopter ring or using iron sights through the 1X prism scope, but, maybe that's also possible?

Meanwhile, VorTex makes a 1X prism scope called the Spitfire AR (formerly called just the Spitfire) which features a diopter adjustment ring. VorTex also makes a couple of 3X magnifiers, the VMX-3T & Micro3X. Yet, in the description of all of these items, VorTex states that magnifiers are not compatible with prism scopes. Maybe their magnifiers are just not compatible with their prism scopes for some reason? Because, many YouTube videos show shooters pairing a VorTex magnifier with a PA Cyclops.

Can anyone help clarify why some 1X prism scope & magnifier combinations are compatible, while others are not?

Also, since each 1X prism scope and each magnifier have their own eye-relief specifications, how does this affect the use of the prism scope when it is mounted farther forward on the receiver? In other words, when the magnifier is flipped out of the way for using the 1X prism scope alone, or to aim the iron sights through the scope, is there an eye-relief problem?

Thanx, Dave

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by BluRidgDav

The Primary Arms 1X Cyclops prism scope can be used with a magnifier, and iron sights can be aimed through the scope just like most 1X red-dot sights.

I don't believe that is correct; red dots and prisms are different animals that function differently. One can see things fairly close, like a front iron sight, with a 1x prism. That doesn't mean you are cowitnessing through the prism; it's an optic with its own parallax issues.

A magnifier can be used in front of a prism, and if you have everything adjusted to work with a magnifier and prism, you are likely to find that those adjustments won't serve you well without the magnifier.

[BluRidgDav]

Thanx for your reply, Zuk.
I once thought the same thing, but, my opinion was formed back when all prism scopes were magnified optics (3X or 5X, etc.) With the introduction of non-magnified 1X prism scopes, those capabilities seem to have changed.

Here is an excerpt from the Primary Arms webpage for the Cyclops:
The PA1X prism scope is not a red dot sight. It is a prism scope, meaning that the reticle is visible regardless of battery power. The etched ACSS Cyclops reticle works more like a typical rifle scope than a red dot. Magnifiers will work with PA1X when placed in the standard configuration behind the PA1X. Special attention will need to be paid to focusing the magnifier on the reticle ensuring it is crisp and clear. This configuration can be used without introducing parallax or point of aim shift. In addition to the configuration described above a typical magnifier can be placed in front of the PA1X prism scope, however it will introduce a large amount of point of aim shift, parallax and overall unreliability of the optical system. It is not recommended to be used in this configuration.
Due to the fundamental nature of the PA1X prism scope’s optical system, it operates differently than a typical red dot. It can be used in line (co-witness) with iron sights like a typical red dot. When placed in line with iron sights the front sight can be visible through the scope. However, the iron sights should be zeroed while in line with the PA1X to account for any point of aim shift introduced by having the PA1X in line with the iron sights. It should also be noted that co-witnessing of iron sights is not necessary with the PA1X like it is with a red dot sight, because the ACSS Cyclops reticle is always visible regardless of battery voltage or even having a battery installed.

Here is an excerpt from the Burris webpage for the AR-1X:
Its compact design leaves room on your rail for a flip-out AR-Tripler™.
The Combo Kit version includes the AR-1X, AR-Tripler, and Quick Detach AR-Pivot Ring.

Thanx again, Dave.

[zukiphile]

Dave, yes, both prisms leave room for a magnifier. That doesn't mean they are well suited to work with one another. Note that the Burris combination pack that included the AR-1X and a tripler is discontinued.

I have a number of 1x prism scopes. I don't see this working well.

[BluRidgDav]

Zuk,

I have a VorTex Spitfire prism scope and several red dots. As my eyes age, the red dots are becoming less usable, due to my astigmatism causing more "flare" of their projected reticles. I recently attempted to buy an EOTech, because holographic laser reticles are less prone to flare. But to my eyes, the flare was still there. Meanwhile, my Spitfire's etched reticle is crystal clear and it's diopter adjustment ring allows my younger family members to change the focus when they shoot through it.

Since many in the shooting community experience these same issues, I think that optics manufacturers are attempting to cater to this segment of the marketplace with these 1X prism scopes. But, since my Spitfire is specifically described by VorTex as not being capable of either iron sight or magnifier use, I was hoping that someone else could provide me with their experience with either a Burris AR-1X or PA Cyclops, before I order one on-line, along with a magnifier. (Can't find any at my local gun shops.)

Still hoping for that info from someone here on TFL . . . . .