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Old August 1, 2020, 09:29 PM   #1
Deja vu
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Is it time to upgrade carry gun? Training question...

I learned to shoot pistols on revolvers. For about 20 years I carried and practiced with a S&W 640 j-frame. I loved the gun and got so I shoot it pretty well. About 2 years ago it was stollen. At that time I still wanted a revolver as I still shoot those better than semiauto pistols. So I upgraded to a S&W 627 8shot 357 as I have a lot of 357 magnum ammo. This gun has served me well. I am a big believer in both alone range practice as well as paid practice with and instructor.

Flash forward to today. I find I have an extra $1200 and think to my self I could get another gun or I could take a nationally well known pistol class. I decide to take the class as I have not seen another gun I really want in a long time (I guess I’m maturing)

I find that the vast majority of self defense pistol class only accept semiautomatics. I do own 2 semiautomatic Pistols but I would consider them novelty guns rather than self defense guns (Coonan 357 and a Desert Eagle 357).

So should I just take another local class that allows revolvers? Should I finely just bite the bullet and get a semiautomatic in 9mm (or may be 45acp) or should I just keep looking? Or should I try to take one of those classes with the Coonan or the Desert Eagle? I do know that I shoot revolvers much better that autos, this is likely do to the once a year 2-7 day class and my 1 box of ammo a pay day practice.

Any advise?
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

Last edited by Deja vu; August 1, 2020 at 09:52 PM.
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Old August 1, 2020, 11:16 PM   #2
Aguila Blanca
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Both the Coonan and the Desert Eagle are very large handguns. IMHO they are not what you should consider for a class, because a class worth taking is going to include a lot of work on drawing from concealment (or from open carry). There is no value in taking a class using a gun that you wouldn't carry. If you are firm that you want to carry a revolver, then by all means find a class that will allow you to train with a revolver.
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Old August 2, 2020, 12:02 AM   #3
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Musings in no order.

***

Dump the Desert Eagle, add the proceeds to the $1,200 and go to Thunder Ranch. Your revolver will do just fine there. Gunsite 250 also allows revolvers.

***

Keep in mind that you should always take a spare gun when you go to training. It should be setup identically to the first. This way, all gear works so you're not swapping gear on the line. An identical setup means no transition time in your mind and you can focus upon the lesson.

***

In revolver training, your gun is going to get very hot. I swap it out with the spare to let it cool off. This matters after the 10th burn from the forcing cone... You'll also cook yourself if you carry IWB--been there, done that too.

***

That Coonan is now hard to get. Acquire spare parts while you can. I wish I had purchased one years ago. I shot a rental Coonan 357 5" recently and it was great!!

Never sell it!

***

Or, just suck it up and buy a "Glock-19" CLASS 9mm pistol (HK P30 LEM, S&W M&P 9 Compact M2.0, CZ P10C, HK VP9, Glock 19, Glock 48, etc) for around $500 and just go to training with it. You'll figure out how it works and will be proficient by the time you leave. 9mm used to be a cheap training round, but the shortage is causing problems. 357 Magnum and 38 Special were always expensive to train with.

***

If you do take your revolver to training and use speed loaders, acquire loading trays. Get two that hold the most number of cylinder loads. Keep them full as you go through the course. Get a ton of speed loaders.

Use moon clips if the cylinder is cut. In that case, get a "moon clip tool" with demooner. But, just get 100 from Ranch Products and load them all before class. Put them in a 5 gallon bucket or a bag with lots of pouches. This way you're not rushing to demoon and reload moonclips. It takes too long between strings and time will be short. You don't want to miss anything because you're stuck back at the bench loading up.

Last edited by tomrkba; August 2, 2020 at 12:34 AM.
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Old August 2, 2020, 01:17 AM   #4
Deja vu
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Thanks for the encouragement from both of you, yes I do think I’ll just stick to my revolvers.

I do have 3 loading blocks that hold 64 rounds each. I all ready do use moon clips too so that’s easy.

Thanks for pointing me to thunder ranch and gun sight I have heard of both of them but forgot when I was searching!

You have both been a good help...
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...
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Old August 2, 2020, 05:46 AM   #5
shurshot
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Nothing wrong with revolvers, I prefer them myself. If you have a good dependable S&W and it works, why change? A no load index fund mirroring the S&P 500 would be my preference, instead of a semiautomatic.
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Old August 2, 2020, 10:39 AM   #6
pete2
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It may be time for me to get a carry gun that holds more than 5 rounds. I had a dream, took 3 rounds from my 642 to put down 2 guys bashing in my car windows to get at me, only 2 rounds left, what to do if a couple more attack me. Could this be a vision(I have a Native American ancestor way back), what to do????? I will try to stay clear of Dallas, Houston etc. Don't want to get caught in a BLM/Antifa riot with only a 5 shooter.
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Old August 2, 2020, 10:44 AM   #7
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Train with what you plan to carry imo. If you carry revolvers then train with the revolver. I’ve done close to 30 shooting courses now. If I had been motivated I don’t see why I couldn’t have done them with a revolver. Now keep in mind you will likely want a lot of speed loaders. Most strings of fire for drills are based around semiautomatic handguns. You will end up doing a lot of reloading. I would also ask the instructor up front if he or she thinks it will be an issue. Send an email, make a call. I can’t think of an instructor I’ve had that wouldn’t be willing to give that information.


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Old August 2, 2020, 12:08 PM   #8
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If you got a spare $1,200, I would recommend staying with a revolver and get a S&W 327. Light as hell and holds 8 rounds. Practice with 38 Spl. Load for bear for 2 legged critters. May hurt when you shot it with full house 357 but you ain't gonna feel it if you have to use it for SD.
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Old August 2, 2020, 02:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete2 View Post
It may be time for me to get a carry gun that holds more than 5 rounds. I had a dream, took 3 rounds from my 642 to put down 2 guys bashing in my car windows to get at me, only 2 rounds left, what to do if a couple more attack me. Could this be a vision(I have a Native American ancestor way back), what to do????? I will try to stay clear of Dallas, Houston etc. Don't want to get caught in a BLM/Antifa riot with only a 5 shooter.
3 rounds for 2 bad guys would be better than average, exceptional.
Looking at this study:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
1.8 rounds = 2 rounds. (Can't shoot just part of a bullet)
On average it took 2 rounds of 38 special to incapacitate an attacker, two hits.
What about missing? Police hit what 50% of the time with a "service" size pistol.
Might entertain the idea of missing in a high stress dynamic event, especially with a "pocket" gun.
Two attackers, on average two rounds each to incapacitate is 4 rounds, but thats a 100% hit ratio.
Given a 50% police hit ratio its not unrealistic that 8 rounds might be fired to stop two attackers.
9mm averaged 2.4 rounds which equals 3 rounds, hits.
40 S&W similar with 2.3 rounds which also equals 3 rounds, hits.

8 rounds for two attackers based on average hits to incapacitate and average police hit ratio.

ETA: My minimum carry is a Glock 23 with 14 rounds total, heck with averages, stack the odds in my favor.
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"Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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Old August 2, 2020, 04:19 PM   #10
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Lots of good instructors still teach Revolver skills. Thunder Ranch and Gunsite as named above would be my first choices.

Its not the arrow, its the Indian.
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Old August 2, 2020, 06:02 PM   #11
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Come back and let us know how things went.

P.S. The Glock 19 suggestion, IMhO, is good. I was going to suggest a Ruger Security 9 but pretty much the same idea.

Good luck.
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Old Yesterday, 08:43 AM   #12
pete2
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I have a G19 but no safety on it. I may buy a Security 9, my son has one and it seems ok, has a safety on it.
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Old Yesterday, 11:12 AM   #13
TBM900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
3 rounds for 2 bad guys would be better than average, exceptional.
Looking at this study:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
1.8 rounds = 2 rounds. (Can't shoot just part of a bullet)
On average it took 2 rounds of 38 special to incapacitate an attacker, two hits.
What about missing? Police hit what 50% of the time with a "service" size pistol.
Might entertain the idea of missing in a high stress dynamic event, especially with a "pocket" gun.
Two attackers, on average two rounds each to incapacitate is 4 rounds, but thats a 100% hit ratio.
Given a 50% police hit ratio its not unrealistic that 8 rounds might be fired to stop two attackers.
9mm averaged 2.4 rounds which equals 3 rounds, hits.
40 S&W similar with 2.3 rounds which also equals 3 rounds, hits.

8 rounds for two attackers based on average hits to incapacitate and average police hit ratio.

ETA: My minimum carry is a Glock 23 with 14 rounds total, heck with averages, stack the odds in my favor.
Aside from the obvious mantra of utterly ignoring anyone who uses the term “stopping power”...
The data provided and used in that “study” is utterly useless as it ignores critically important factors.
Not the least of which is shot placement.
I’m amazed at how some folks can still give such credence to that “data”.
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Old Yesterday, 11:16 AM   #14
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OP
IMO your money would be far better spent just honing your skills in practical & productive way.
It’s overly used and utterly cliché, but... “It’s the indian not the arrow”
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Old Yesterday, 03:24 PM   #15
CDW4ME
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBM900 View Post
Aside from the obvious mantra of utterly ignoring anyone who uses the term “stopping power”...
The data provided and used in that “study” is utterly useless as it ignores critically important factors.
Not the least of which is shot placement.
I’m amazed at how some folks can still give such credence to that “data”.
Nowhere did I use the term "stopping power"

I used that study as an example of rounds fired to incapacitate, that is not to suggest (or imply) that I give blanket credence to all of it.
That same study shows the 32 acp having better results than 9mm/40/45 - I'm not subscribing to that.

Main idea (mine) is even with lethal (but not CNS) hits an attacker could still have 10 seconds (or more) of voluntary hostile action.
Two or three hits required to incapacitate an attacker is not unreasonable to expect.
Expecting every round fired to be a "good" hit might be a bit optimistic, so 3 - 4 rounds total fired to incapacitate one attacker aint unrealistic.

If one is content to bet their life on a 5 shot snub it doesn't impact me, oh well.
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"Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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Old Yesterday, 07:00 PM   #16
TBM900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
Nowhere did I use the term "stopping power"
No where did I say that you did

It is however right in the title and used throughout the linked material
Hence my entire point about ignoring tripe from such a source
Ever hear the phrase "garbage in garbage out"?

No need to take things personally... smile once in a while



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Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM   #17
stephen426
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If you are more comfortable shooting revolvers and very proficient with them, stick with them. I am much more comfortable with semi-autos so that is what I carry. I find revolvers harder to conceal due to the width of the cylinder and I also prefer to have more rounds that revolvers can hold. But as I said, if they work for you stay with them.
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