9mm Steel

drmajor · September 8, 2021, 06:46 PM

I have H&K vp9 and Sig P938-9mm.

Steel ammo has gotten some what reasonable. What are steel’s issues?
Do my pistols have issues w/ it?

eflyguy · September 8, 2021, 07:03 PM

Other than the fact that many ranges don't allow it, as it pollutes the brass they collect for recycling, I've never had an issue with steel in rifles or pistols. Every range I've shot at regularly checks your ammo with a magnet.

I suspect if you shoot thousands of rounds per year, it might cause more wear on the chamber/inlet.

JDBerg · September 8, 2021, 10:31 PM

I’ve been shooting steel, aluminum, and brass cased factory ammo through my Gen3 Glock 17 since I bought it new 12 years ago. I shot a bunch of Win USA Forged ammo, which I like except for the awful smell. No chamber or extractor wear from the steel cased ammo either.

Shadow9mm · September 8, 2021, 10:58 PM

I will no longer shoot steel in my handguns. I have had or personally seen 3 critical failures with steel in about 15yrs.

1. The first was a glock 23 with wolf polymer coated. fired casing stuck in the chamber, would not come out. had to take the gun apart and pound the casing out with a dowel rod. My friends gun, were were out on private property shooting.
2. at a range. HK pistol, I don't know what model, wolf polymer again. same problem, fired casting stuck in the chamber, would not come out. he packed up and left.
3. My G19 with red army. first round bang. 2nd round click, primer was well dented but a light strike. fired the 2nd try. round 3 bang. round 4 pop. the gun was locked up. it was a squib gun locked up. managed to get it open jamming the slide on a table. bullet was in the casing, primer was blown half way out the back.

The issues with steel as I understand it.
Steel is harder and can wear your gun faster
steel is stiffer, and does not expand to seal the chamber as quickly or as well meaning you chamber will get dirtier faster
steel usually has a coating to keep it from rusting. usually polymer, sometimes laquer. in time and with inadequate cleaning they can build up in the chamber and cause malfunctions or just be hard to clean.

steel can and does work. many people report having good luck with it. Me, personally, I will never put steel cased in one of my handguns ever again.

If you want to try it out, just buy a box or 2, not a case. put it through your guns, see how they run with it.

TunnelRat · September 9, 2021, 12:02 AM

I’ve used steel cased ammunition before, including in my HK 45c. I didn’t have some of the functional issues of others. It was notably less clean than other ammunition as the case doesn’t expand as well and I had more carbon get around the case and go back into the firing pin channel. In the case of the 45c it eventually stopped the firing pin and the pistol wouldn’t function until I cleaned it. The steel in the case should be significantly softer than the steel in your extractor and I would be surprised if it caused significantly more wear.

Lucky Gunner did a test with steel cased rifle ammunition and the primary concern there was with the bi-metal bullet that had a mild steel jacket (steel cased ammunition often has a bu-metal jacket, it’s not always true but it’s often true). At the high speeds of the 223 Remington cartridge the bi-metal bullets did wear out barrels faster. However, bullets in a pistol aren’t going nearly as fast and I’d be surprised if the same wear happened in a pistol barrel. Even so at the end of the test the savings from steel cased ammunition would have allowed the test conductors to buy multiple new barrels.

My major gripe with steel cased ammo currently is the price. Before the panic I remember a case of brass cased 9mm could be had for say $170-$180 for something like Blazer Brass. A case of steel, IIRC, was maybe $120-$130. Percentage wise that’s a significant savings. Nowadays that doesn’t seem nearly as true. While steel remains cheaper than brass, that percent difference has closed quite a bit. Coupled with the recent ban on Russian produced ammunition that will see import licenses expire in a year or so and with much of the steel cased 9mm being Russian in manufacture, prices have gotten even worse. On ammoseek.com I’m seeing steel cased 9mm for $0.32 - $0.37 a round (seemingly a bit more biased towards that upper end), whereas brass comes in around $0.38 and up, but quite a bit for $0.40 a round and less. That’s a current savings of say 16% at the better end as opposed to say 29% in the past. At that point for the improved function of brass and the fact that it still has some value for reloading I personally would pay the premium and buy brass.

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eflyguy · September 9, 2021, 05:12 AM

I am assuming, given the quoted prices, these references to a "case" (10 bricks, 5000rds) actually mean a "brick" (10 boxes of 50)..

I've never bought a brick of steel-cased. I honestly don't know remember why I even bought it in 9mm, but I know I did. Might have been before I visited a range that checked for steel.

TunnelRat · September 9, 2021, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eflyguy

I am assuming, given the quoted prices, these references to a "case" (10 bricks, 5000rds) actually mean a "brick" (10 boxes of 50)..

I've never bought a brick of steel-cased. I honestly don't know remember why I even bought it in 9mm, but I know I did. Might have been before I visited a range that checked for steel.

No. A case is 20 boxes of 50 in what I described above. It’s by the box or case, with a case being what I just described. More than that is a pallet. Those are the terms used locally to me. The same counting and terminology with regards to a case is used by many vendors on ammoseek.com.

Edit: these terms are relative to centerfire cartridges like 9mm as that was the OP’s question. Before this pandemic I shot around 800-1000 rd of 9mm a month so I ordered a case at a time. I have heard people call the large boxes of 22LR bricks.

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eflyguy · September 9, 2021, 07:17 AM

Interesting. I've never seen 20x50. Perhaps that's the difference.

All my bricks are 10x50 @9mm, 5x100 or 25x20 @5.56, 10x50 @.22. All 500rds, not 1000.

Cases are 10x bricks here. I guess terminology varies by location and what's being sold.

Also discovered during my "rummage" that our USPSA "match" ammo is in fact brass-plated steel, 147gr. So it turns out, we have in fact shot thousands of rounds of "steel" 9mm, to no ill effect. My XD, my daughter's G19.

TunnelRat · September 9, 2021, 07:32 AM

Most of the ammunition I buy (often Blazer Brass) comes from the manufacturer in large cardboard boxes that contain 1000 rd, what to me is known as case both locally and online. 500 rd would require the seller to break open those boxes and then count them out. That’s more work for the seller than just selling the large cardboard box, case, directly. The stores near me simply cut away the packing material on the pallet and put the cases out on the floor for sale. I have seen manufacturers offer 500 rd allotments online, but I rarely see that in stores local to me (I do see 250 rd value packs). Given the round counts I shoot it always made sense to buy 1000 rd at a time.

You can see 1000 rd cases make up a lot of ammoseek’s listings, but 500 rd is there quite a bit too (seemingly more so with steel ammunition).

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger

I don’t shoot steel much these days except for in my AKM and my Makarov.

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eflyguy · September 9, 2021, 07:57 AM

That is truly interesting. My Blazer Brass 9mm is in 10x50 boxes, as is the "match" ammo I referenced.

I've only ever bought Blazer (9mm) locally. Now I'm motivated to go see what they have Last time I was in the place I usually buy from (Adventure Outdoors), the shelves were fully stocked, but I only looked at "by the box" prices for 9 and .45. A reason to get out for a stroll..

edit - It's been many years since I actually needed to buy any. I wonder if that's a factor as well?

drmajor · September 9, 2021, 09:31 AM

Appreciate all the input. Sounds like steel mainly requires more c leaning. Ammoseek seems to show mostly steel presently.

wild cat mccane · September 9, 2021, 10:10 AM

Filter by Steel.

I would not use it based on the Luckygunner test in an AR.

Would it matter in normal life usage? probably not.

TunnelRat · September 9, 2021, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmajor

Appreciate all the input. Sounds like steel mainly requires more c leaning. Ammoseek seems to show mostly steel presently.

Scroll down further. Ammoseek defaults to sorting by price so all you will see at the beginning is steel.

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wild cat mccane · September 9, 2021, 10:22 AM

If you don't filter out steel, that's all you are going to see cause it's cheaper.

Also filter out the reload junk.

totaldla · September 9, 2021, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmajor

I have H&K vp9 and Sig P938-9mm.

Steel ammo has gotten some what reasonable. What are steel’s issues?
Do my pistols have issues w/ it?

I doubt you'll have any problems - give it a try and report back. The only thing I didn't like with Wolf was the stinky powder they used. Stuff always went bang and was cheap. But the Russian stuff will dry up fast.
Hornady is producing steel cased ammo, but I think 9mm and 223 only.

September 8, 2021, 06:46 PM	#1
drmajor Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 72	9mm Steel I have H&K vp9 and Sig P938-9mm. Steel ammo has gotten some what reasonable. What are steel’s issues? Do my pistols have issues w/ it?

September 8, 2021, 10:31 PM	#3
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	I’ve been shooting steel, aluminum, and brass cased factory ammo through my Gen3 Glock 17 since I bought it new 12 years ago. I shot a bunch of Win USA Forged ammo, which I like except for the awful smell. No chamber or extractor wear from the steel cased ammo either. __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

September 8, 2021, 10:58 PM	#4
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,974	I will no longer shoot steel in my handguns. I have had or personally seen 3 critical failures with steel in about 15yrs. 1. The first was a glock 23 with wolf polymer coated. fired casing stuck in the chamber, would not come out. had to take the gun apart and pound the casing out with a dowel rod. My friends gun, were were out on private property shooting. 2. at a range. HK pistol, I don't know what model, wolf polymer again. same problem, fired casting stuck in the chamber, would not come out. he packed up and left. 3. My G19 with red army. first round bang. 2nd round click, primer was well dented but a light strike. fired the 2nd try. round 3 bang. round 4 pop. the gun was locked up. it was a squib gun locked up. managed to get it open jamming the slide on a table. bullet was in the casing, primer was blown half way out the back. The issues with steel as I understand it. Steel is harder and can wear your gun faster steel is stiffer, and does not expand to seal the chamber as quickly or as well meaning you chamber will get dirtier faster steel usually has a coating to keep it from rusting. usually polymer, sometimes laquer. in time and with inadequate cleaning they can build up in the chamber and cause malfunctions or just be hard to clean. steel can and does work. many people report having good luck with it. Me, personally, I will never put steel cased in one of my handguns ever again. If you want to try it out, just buy a box or 2, not a case. put it through your guns, see how they run with it. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

September 9, 2021, 07:32 AM	#9
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	9mm Steel Most of the ammunition I buy (often Blazer Brass) comes from the manufacturer in large cardboard boxes that contain 1000 rd, what to me is known as case both locally and online. 500 rd would require the seller to break open those boxes and then count them out. That’s more work for the seller than just selling the large cardboard box, case, directly. The stores near me simply cut away the packing material on the pallet and put the cases out on the floor for sale. I have seen manufacturers offer 500 rd allotments online, but I rarely see that in stores local to me (I do see 250 rd value packs). Given the round counts I shoot it always made sense to buy 1000 rd at a time. You can see 1000 rd cases make up a lot of ammoseek’s listings, but 500 rd is there quite a bit too (seemingly more so with steel ammunition). https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger I don’t shoot steel much these days except for in my AKM and my Makarov. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; September 9, 2021 at 07:37 AM.

September 9, 2021, 10:10 AM	#12
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,627	Filter by Steel. I would not use it based on the Luckygunner test in an AR. Would it matter in normal life usage? probably not. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

September 8, 2021, 07:03 PM	#2
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	Other than the fact that many ranges don't allow it, as it pollutes the brass they collect for recycling, I've never had an issue with steel in rifles or pistols. Every range I've shot at regularly checks your ammo with a magnet. I suspect if you shoot thousands of rounds per year, it might cause more wear on the chamber/inlet.

September 9, 2021, 12:02 AM	#5
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I’ve used steel cased ammunition before, including in my HK 45c. I didn’t have some of the functional issues of others. It was notably less clean than other ammunition as the case doesn’t expand as well and I had more carbon get around the case and go back into the firing pin channel. In the case of the 45c it eventually stopped the firing pin and the pistol wouldn’t function until I cleaned it. The steel in the case should be significantly softer than the steel in your extractor and I would be surprised if it caused significantly more wear. Lucky Gunner did a test with steel cased rifle ammunition and the primary concern there was with the bi-metal bullet that had a mild steel jacket (steel cased ammunition often has a bu-metal jacket, it’s not always true but it’s often true). At the high speeds of the 223 Remington cartridge the bi-metal bullets did wear out barrels faster. However, bullets in a pistol aren’t going nearly as fast and I’d be surprised if the same wear happened in a pistol barrel. Even so at the end of the test the savings from steel cased ammunition would have allowed the test conductors to buy multiple new barrels. My major gripe with steel cased ammo currently is the price. Before the panic I remember a case of brass cased 9mm could be had for say $170-$180 for something like Blazer Brass. A case of steel, IIRC, was maybe $120-$130. Percentage wise that’s a significant savings. Nowadays that doesn’t seem nearly as true. While steel remains cheaper than brass, that percent difference has closed quite a bit. Coupled with the recent ban on Russian produced ammunition that will see import licenses expire in a year or so and with much of the steel cased 9mm being Russian in manufacture, prices have gotten even worse. On ammoseek.com I’m seeing steel cased 9mm for $0.32 - $0.37 a round (seemingly a bit more biased towards that upper end), whereas brass comes in around $0.38 and up, but quite a bit for $0.40 a round and less. That’s a current savings of say 16% at the better end as opposed to say 29% in the past. At that point for the improved function of brass and the fact that it still has some value for reloading I personally would pay the premium and buy brass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

September 9, 2021, 05:12 AM	#6
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	I am assuming, given the quoted prices, these references to a "case" (10 bricks, 5000rds) actually mean a "brick" (10 boxes of 50).. I've never bought a brick of steel-cased. I honestly don't know remember why I even bought it in 9mm, but I know I did. Might have been before I visited a range that checked for steel.

September 9, 2021, 07:17 AM	#8
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	Interesting. I've never seen 20x50. Perhaps that's the difference. All my bricks are 10x50 @9mm, 5x100 or 25x20 @5.56, 10x50 @.22. All 500rds, not 1000. Cases are 10x bricks here. I guess terminology varies by location and what's being sold. Also discovered during my "rummage" that our USPSA "match" ammo is in fact brass-plated steel, 147gr. So it turns out, we have in fact shot thousands of rounds of "steel" 9mm, to no ill effect. My XD, my daughter's G19.

September 9, 2021, 07:57 AM	#10
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	That is truly interesting. My Blazer Brass 9mm is in 10x50 boxes, as is the "match" ammo I referenced. I've only ever bought Blazer (9mm) locally. Now I'm motivated to go see what they have Last time I was in the place I usually buy from (Adventure Outdoors), the shelves were fully stocked, but I only looked at "by the box" prices for 9 and .45. A reason to get out for a stroll.. edit - It's been many years since I actually needed to buy any. I wonder if that's a factor as well?

September 9, 2021, 09:31 AM	#11
drmajor Member Join Date: March 15, 2008 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 72	Appreciate all the input. Sounds like steel mainly requires more c leaning. Ammoseek seems to show mostly steel presently.

September 9, 2021, 10:22 AM	#14
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,627	If you don't filter out steel, that's all you are going to see cause it's cheaper. Also filter out the reload junk. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.