Anyone screen 1F to 3F?

jdc606 · June 9, 2021, 10:25 AM

I see 1F and Cannon grade black powder always available when 2F and 3F are out. Anyone try using one of those ceramic burr grinders to convert Cannon or 1f to 3F? Was reading another forum where a dedicated black powder shooter said Swiss 3F is closer to Goex 4f in grain size. Seems to me the granule size would be the only difference between Goex Cannon and Goex 3F.

Pahoo · June 9, 2021, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Anyone try using one of those ceramic burr grinders to convert Cannon or 1f to 3F?

No but what I have seen is folks have gotten hurt, playing with BP... ....

BP can be very forgiving but no one can predict when might happen if pushed too far. It's not just a matter of glandular size but how each is finished. I have personal experience in that bad things can happen, that I can't and won't detail. There are websites dedicated to BP information. I teach M/L's and have a number of samples that I use for teaching aids. There is a stark difference between 1F and 3F. ....

A big factor is that I still have all my fingers and getting to long in the tooth, to "play" with this stuff.

Be Safe !!!

Centurion · June 9, 2021, 02:36 PM

You can screen it to obtain a 3f granulation, but you must to work your powder wet as some kind of mud. Wet powder is totally safe, and after screening it you can let it dry over a piece of newspaper. Consider handling small batches of about 1/8 pound (about 50 grams) so you can test the quality you're obtaining once finished the entire process.

Centurion · June 11, 2021, 06:14 PM

Hi again! Did you finally try to convert your powder?

jdc606 · June 11, 2021, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

Hi again! Did you finally try to convert your powder?

Hello Centurion,
I think your idea of wetting the 1F and screening to 3F is very workable. After thinking on it, I figured I would probably end up with some finer stuff that would require re-pressing. Trying to keep in supplies for shooting my C&B revolvers during these shortage times. I read all 190+ threads about making BP on the cast Boolits forum and wish I would have started making BP/casting lead about 40 years earlier. Decided at this late date just buy what I need for now. Cost of harbor freight press=$85. Bought 750 percussion caps for $85. Die to press green powder into pucks=$50. Bought 2 lbs of Pyro P yesterday for $50.

My days of shooting iron sights are becoming fewer so I'll just buy what I can find for now. Have 4 lbs Pyro P, 950 percussion caps, and 500 balls to use before I can't. Only getting to shoot once a week right now. That's 30-60 shots from C&B revolver and 150 rounds .22lr from Ruger MkIV pistol with a red dot on it.

kell · June 11, 2021, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahoo

No but what I have seen is folks have gotten hurt, playing with BP... ....

BP can be very forgiving but no one can predict when might happen if pushed too far. It's not just a matter of glandular size but how each is finished. I have personal experience in that bad things can happen, that I can't and won't detail. There are websites dedicated to BP information. I teach M/L's and have a number of samples that I use for teaching aids. There is a stark difference between 1F and 3F. ....

A big factor is that I still have all my fingers and getting to long in the tooth, to "play" with this stuff.

Be Safe !!!

Glandular size?

Sure Shot Mc Gee · June 11, 2021, 11:19 PM

I don't think I would purposely grind commercial made 1F too 2 or 3-Fg What I might try is ball mill rolling. In that way if something were to go wrong I would rather not expose myself to a up close >serious accident. Like Pahoo said. Never under estimate B/P touchiness.

Centurion · June 11, 2021, 11:42 PM

I understand. But if you use a ball mill, you will obtain a super fine grade powder, something like 4f or even finer. I know what I'm talking about because in my country the only source to BP is to make it yourself. And I use to get consistent quality of 2f, 3f and 4f homemade powder.
The only way is screening it. Sorry for the bad news...
Old US Army manual Improvised Munitions Handbook includes a couple BP recipes that could be useful to better understand the wet process. Maybe you can download it online as a pdf.

jdc606 · June 12, 2021, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

The only way is screening it.

Was thinking by dissolving large grain Goex into a slurry, it would lose any granular size other than whatever size screen I press the wet slurry through. Those screens have gotten crazy expensive. The KNO3 and Sulphur are relatively cheap and available but making/sourcing good charcoal isn't.

Another important reason for not going forward with this idea is I've moved into a multi-unit building. Would be unfair of me to endanger others with my experimenting.

Scorch · June 12, 2021, 04:43 PM

There are a few videos on Youtube about making your own BP. I tried making my own BP many years ago using Kingsford briquets and got a low grade of powder (went FOOF instead of BANG). You're supposed to use soft wood charcoal (ideally willow wood) and most commercial charcoal is hardwood charcoal. Saltpeter 75%, charcoal 15%, sulphur 10% is a common recipe, use a ball mill to grind it, 95% isopropyl to make the cake and a hardware cloth screen to granulate it. The ingredients are generally available. The videos have all the steps required to make BP, so if you're interested, give it a go.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · June 22, 2021, 08:35 PM

If attempting to ball mill factory made? To get its same performance. (maybe?) Would have to compress dampened green powder from the mill into pucks. Let fully air dry into dried disks.. Than grind to larger grade and screen results over and over so to separate Fg grade.

I shoot homemade green (for target practice) from the mill slightly dampened pushed thru a specific size sieve. Let dry for a few days. Than use. A very fouling powder but it has a fast burn speed. When hunting. Only Powder thats been puck'ed and sieved to size or Gorex 2-FFG.

Making powder is indeed easy but can be very time consuming. Depending on type. Does require specific tools for the purpose.

Road_Clam · June 23, 2021, 01:59 PM

I have no problem experimenting uncharted territories with smokeless loads. Some interesting data can be learned. Experimenting with altering the powder composition of explosive holy black is NOT on my list. I proactively bought a lot of varied BP bands and compositions during the robust Trump era when the buying was great. No need for me to be screwing around cooking up substitutes.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · June 29, 2021, 09:37 PM

Not recommended!!___ but if looking for hot loading's. Couple loading's recipe's I use are duplex charges of smokeless powder. Tip: to find? Try consulting much much older Handloader Guides.

June 9, 2021, 10:25 AM	#1
jdc606 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2015 Posts: 129	Anyone screen 1F to 3F? I see 1F and Cannon grade black powder always available when 2F and 3F are out. Anyone try using one of those ceramic burr grinders to convert Cannon or 1f to 3F? Was reading another forum where a dedicated black powder shooter said Swiss 3F is closer to Goex 4f in grain size. Seems to me the granule size would be the only difference between Goex Cannon and Goex 3F.

June 12, 2021, 04:43 PM	#10
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	There are a few videos on Youtube about making your own BP. I tried making my own BP many years ago using Kingsford briquets and got a low grade of powder (went FOOF instead of BANG). You're supposed to use soft wood charcoal (ideally willow wood) and most commercial charcoal is hardwood charcoal. Saltpeter 75%, charcoal 15%, sulphur 10% is a common recipe, use a ball mill to grind it, 95% isopropyl to make the cake and a hardware cloth screen to granulate it. The ingredients are generally available. The videos have all the steps required to make BP, so if you're interested, give it a go. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

June 23, 2021, 01:59 PM	#12
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	I have no problem experimenting uncharted territories with smokeless loads. Some interesting data can be learned. Experimenting with altering the powder composition of explosive holy black is NOT on my list. I proactively bought a lot of varied BP bands and compositions during the robust Trump era when the buying was great. No need for me to be screwing around cooking up substitutes. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

June 9, 2021, 02:36 PM	#3
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	You can screen it to obtain a 3f granulation, but you must to work your powder wet as some kind of mud. Wet powder is totally safe, and after screening it you can let it dry over a piece of newspaper. Consider handling small batches of about 1/8 pound (about 50 grams) so you can test the quality you're obtaining once finished the entire process.

June 11, 2021, 06:14 PM	#4
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	Hi again! Did you finally try to convert your powder?

June 11, 2021, 11:19 PM	#7
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	I don't think I would purposely grind commercial made 1F too 2 or 3-Fg What I might try is ball mill rolling. In that way if something were to go wrong I would rather not expose myself to a up close >serious accident. Like Pahoo said. Never under estimate B/P touchiness.

June 11, 2021, 11:42 PM	#8
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	I understand. But if you use a ball mill, you will obtain a super fine grade powder, something like 4f or even finer. I know what I'm talking about because in my country the only source to BP is to make it yourself. And I use to get consistent quality of 2f, 3f and 4f homemade powder. The only way is screening it. Sorry for the bad news... Old US Army manual Improvised Munitions Handbook includes a couple BP recipes that could be useful to better understand the wet process. Maybe you can download it online as a pdf.

June 22, 2021, 08:35 PM	#11
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	If attempting to ball mill factory made? To get its same performance. (maybe?) Would have to compress dampened green powder from the mill into pucks. Let fully air dry into dried disks.. Than grind to larger grade and screen results over and over so to separate Fg grade. I shoot homemade green (for target practice) from the mill slightly dampened pushed thru a specific size sieve. Let dry for a few days. Than use. A very fouling powder but it has a fast burn speed. When hunting. Only Powder thats been puck'ed and sieved to size or Gorex 2-FFG. Making powder is indeed easy but can be very time consuming. Depending on type. Does require specific tools for the purpose.

June 29, 2021, 09:37 PM	#13
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Not recommended!!___ but if looking for hot loading's. Couple loading's recipe's I use are duplex charges of smokeless powder. Tip: to find? Try consulting much much older Handloader Guides.