Masked Cop with M4 stopping van (pic) - Page 5

yankytrash · October 12, 2002, 08:11 PM

SE DC?!?

I'll take my chances with the evil masked goblins, thank you!

MessedUpMike · October 12, 2002, 08:21 PM

Aha, a local!
I don't live there I just work there (FD). With all of the other shootings the "sniper" would even get noticed down there. But there not much room for long distance shots, and the chances of returned fire are big! And that's not limited to LE!

Mike

lgm_rambone · October 12, 2002, 08:28 PM

Maybe we should all walk around with a Mask and Vest that has CIVILIAN in big white letters on it. Drive around, go shopping. Let see if the Police have an issue with that.

Gosh I wouldn't want my girlfriend to see me with my wife while shopping.

Libertarian · October 12, 2002, 08:37 PM

Here's a question for the folks here who say cop + mask = BG = shoot now!

Suppose that you witnessed a Cartel murder surrendipitiously? Suppose you could positively id the killer(s)? Suppose you had the license plate number of the killer's car too?

Now, if you could stop filling your pants long enough to move, would you:

call the police?

volunteer to witness during the trial?

walk away and figure that someone else would take care of it?

or (and I have to add this for the ninja wannabes) charge in with both you main piece and back up blazing and in a two fisted shoot out kill the killers and rescue the maiden who's tied up in the trunk?

Now, let's suppose that you finally found your feet and emptied your drawers, calle dthe police and now it is trail time; do you walk in with your head high and face on the papers because you are not a criminal and do not need to hide your face from anyone? Or do you let the marshals sneak you in the underground parking and up the back stairs so you can testify behind a partion so that only the judge can see you?

Remember, you're not a criminal. You have no reason to hide your identity. Nor does your family have any right or reason to expect you to stay anonymous so they will live to see next week.

If you chose to hide your face, why is your life any more valuble than the undercover cop's?

yankytrash · October 12, 2002, 08:41 PM

Oop, Libertarian beat me to the reply button. Anyway......

We probably wojuldn't wanna do that. According to other posters around here, many of the "responsible" gun owners around here would be running you over with their cars or shootin you on sight, no questions asked.

Or, you could wear a mask in the proper environment - hunting, skiing, cold weather, or if you're undercover law enforcement, during operations in public when your indentity could put you in jeopardy.

Libertarian · October 12, 2002, 08:46 PM

I'll wage Halloween night is a bunch of fun in the neighborhoods of some of our members.

"Mask!" BLAM!
"Another mask!" BLAM!

MessedUpMike · October 12, 2002, 08:52 PM

"Mask!" BLAM!
"Another mask!" BLAM!

That was to funny

Mike

yankytrash · October 12, 2002, 08:54 PM

Oh comon Libertarian, you can do better than that. How about this:

Ding! Dong!
"Trick'r Treat!"
BLAM! BLAMBLAM!

or....

"Honey I told you I didn't want to come to Fred's Halloween party,..."
"Oh you be quiet. You'll like him, and I made all this potato salad for the party anyway, now ring the door bell!"
Ding! Dong!
"Oh hey! Tom and Sue, nice to see you guys could make it, come on in..."
"Honey? What are doing reaching into your jacket? HoNEYYY NOOOOOOO!"
BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!! BLAMBLAM! BLAM!

Might go something like that. Use your imagination. Everyone else is.

KSFreeman · October 12, 2002, 09:11 PM

Libertarian, closed courtrooms, screens, secret hearings? Maybe on tv and in admin hearing as for the new immigration violations, but a state court? Doubtful (granted I'm not licensed in Old Virginny), even juvenile courts have been opened up recently. The accused will always know who the "undercover" cop is.

There's no reason to shoot any police officers or trick or treaters. Moreover, there's no reason to let some podunk cop to play out his mall ninja delusions.

Instead of hurting anyone, why not just fire them and have Chief Wiggum who is allowing this fired as well?

Dangus, again, it has nothing to do with me knowing he's a cop. It is about bring the government to heel. They do not have the right to act in secret stalking about like ninjas. They do not have the right to bully and intimidate. I know the East Coast Eloi are wetting their beds and bleating overtime, but I won't have a madman give government act as the thugs they wish to be.

Coronach · October 12, 2002, 09:52 PM

1. I will stake my entire years salary that he was not out there wearing a balaclava because he wants to run around and be a ninja. Please, you undermine your legitimate points (which are scarce enough, I dare say) with such drivel.

2. Anonymity? Does anyone here seriously think that if, accused of wrongdoing, the identity of this officer for the purpose of discipline or criminal charges could not be obtained? If it can be, than he is not exercising his power anonymously.

3. Intimidation? Are we at TFL seriously so weak-kneed that we shudder at the sight of a garment?

Aren't we who the ones who chide that antis that they should not be afraid of weaponry, which can actually cause physical harm? And we are afraid of clothing? Wow. My faith in this bastion of bravery and manliness is being sorely tested.

Oh but wait, we'll prove our courage by running him over of popping a cap in him. Suuuuure we will.

I don't say this very often, and it is a serious slip in my decorum. But grow up.

Mike

KSFreeman · October 12, 2002, 10:27 PM

Cor, if the wannabe isn't wearing it for intimidation (like the Euro po-po), then why is he wearing it. We seem to agree that he can't be the Lone Ranger (apologies to TFL's Lone Ranger--who, btw, only wears dark shooting glasses in skul, not a mask) and protect his secret identity (that was always just silly to me).

So, if isn't playing wannabe go fast operator or trying to bully people, why the heckiedurn is this moron wearing it?

yankytrash · October 12, 2002, 11:02 PM

He's U-N-D-E-R-C-O-V-E-R. Undercover policemen/women pulling off their current caseload to help out with the search for the sniper need to stay anonymous.

You're a lawyer, right? Do you not understand the reason undercover police have to stay anonymous in public, until their case is in court?

Kenneth Bowen · October 13, 2002, 12:07 AM

There are a bunch of irrational posts here.

1) Suggesting shooting or running over the officer is weird.

2) It's ok to question whether or not law enforcement shoud be wearing masks; We are lucky to live in a democratic republic where the citizenry SHOULD question authority.

3) Questioning the use of masks does not diminish the wish to apprehend the miscreant in the DC area.

There may be an occasional need for a law enforcement officer to wear a mask. My personal fealing is that in many recent instances, it's overdone.

bastiat · October 13, 2002, 12:25 AM

If this had happened:

Reporter: "Were you able to conduct traffic stops on all roads out of the shooting area?"
Police Rep: "No, we had a shortage of manpower. There were some undercover officers we could have used, but because of the sensitive nature of their work, we couldn't have them working in a high-visibility situation like this."

If they had done this, many of the same people complaining about the masks would be complaining that the police weren't using every available officer to catch the killer. Sad but true.

westex · October 13, 2002, 12:30 AM

Been tempted to post again several times on this thread but KS you don't need any help with the pro bandito boys. In fact it looks one has gone over the edge and the other 2 are not far behind. I guess too many donuts will do that to you.

Cosmoline · October 13, 2002, 12:39 AM

Looks like these cops have been recruiting from the ranks of our old friend THE MALL NINJA! Next they'll be leaning down from the roof of the car, politely asking for your license.

bastiat · October 13, 2002, 12:42 AM

'Pro Bandito Boys'? Hah.

Any of the 'Bandito Boy' bashers cops? Any of them work under cover?

Would any of the "I'd run them over" crowd have the guts to work undercover for a living, trying to fit in with the scummiest of the scum, and then parade around as a cop, in one of the highest profile situations in the country, for all to see?

Hey, this calls for a poll!

El Rojo · October 13, 2002, 01:54 AM

Yeah, I can see it now. Minding my own business, driving home from work...then suddenly, there they are. Little masked jack booted thugs. They are crossing the street. I drop the car into 3rd and accelerate. Before they are able to raise their M-249's that are obviously disguised in those pillow cases, I cut hard left and jam up the E-brake. I do a high speed skid and knock down all 5 of them like bowling pins. Yes it is October 31st, yeah, they might have been trick or treaters. But they should have known better than to wear the mask. I step from the car, one of them is still alive, I do a double tap to the head. I am a car owner. I am a gun owner. I run over and shoot first, I ask questions later.

Anyone else think I went too far with that one? Anyone else think I sound rediculous? Since when do CCW holders start acting like dumb arses and state they shoot first and ask questions later? When do responsible people who have been waiting in traffic for an hour due to all of the blue and red flashing lights ahead, suddenly see a hooded man with "police" on his vest, gun it and take the guy out? Give the bravado and tough guy stance up.

I seriously doubt with all of the other cops around, there was a need for these guys to go running around with their hoods on. I think it is more likely that the uniformed cops wanted to kick back since they only had maybe a shotgun and their pistol, and let the gung-ho swat and UC guys go running around with their ARs checking out the vehicles. Why leave the road block when they can do that for you? Afterall, if you were searching for this guy, what would you want to be carrying?

I just trump this all up to bad decision making. I say we find some e-mail for the department and start asking these questions there, instead of wasting our time here. And if you are going to e-mail, don't be an idiot and state you would have run him over or shot him on the spot. State that as a concerned citizen who carries a firearm for self-defense, the sight of a masked man approaching your vehicle would alarm you. Uniformed officers tend to make you less nervous and make everyone safer.

Mariner · October 13, 2002, 02:32 AM

Sounds to me like KSFreeman is one of those who would rather have channel 9 investigating this case.

The mask does nothing to reduce his ability to identify himself as an LEO.

lgm_rambone · October 13, 2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

We are lucky to live in a democratic republic

What F'n country would that be?

Dangus · October 13, 2002, 04:35 AM

Some of you guys have such an immature fixation with cops behaving at all times precisely the way you want them to act that you don't even think about the possible facts.

Why is it so damn wrong for undercover guys to hide who they are? Their lives are forfeit if they are seen doing traffic stops on TV by the badguys they will be going back to facing.

Have you ever seen undercover cops? They often look very scruffy, very un-coplike. In fact, most people would probably think "Holy crap, that guy's not a cop!" if they saw them WITHOUT the mask on. The mask probably makes them look more cop-like.

What the hell does a hood do to your civil liberties? NOTHING. If you want to run over, gun down, or otherwise mutilate an officer of the law who is trying to stop a dangerous mass murderer, fine, but I'll be cheering them on as the rest of the cops hunt you down for it. Lay off and let these people do their damn job. They've got a job right now that is so hard they are all probably stressing out of their minds. If playing Mall Ninja(tm) is all they are doing, so what? Maybe it makes them feel more confident, and if that helps them perform better, good.

Once this is over, if they are still playing Mall Ninja(tm), then by all means take them to court, complain to the press, gripe on this board, lobby to have their rules changed, whatever, but for now give them a break and realize they have a job to do that you would never want to have to do. It's dangerous, it's long hours, and it's emotionally draining.

Seeing this shooter stopped is VITAL to our movement. He's already caused so much sensational stir and given the antis so much ammo to fight us with, why let him get more just so you can avoid seeing a few cops with masks on. Think about this one folks. It's just fabric covering a head, that's ALL it is.

As for Spain, kidnapping is a national epidemic there, cops can't afford to be identified, because their families would disappear and be replaced with ransom notes. The police in Spain have some extremely bad terrorism problems that you clearly don't understand well.

Ed Brunner · October 13, 2002, 06:52 AM

I really like the idea of a mask and a vest marked CIVILIAN!
I don't like masked civil servants.
If he was there with a lot of uniformed officers, was he really needed?
And do we really need or want undercover police persons?
Beruit or DC?
This stuff is like gun control. As long as we accept it, it will continue to get worse.

MikeTx · October 13, 2002, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Some of you guys have such an immature fixation with cops behaving at all times precisely the way you want them to act that you don't even think about the possible facts.

Not at all. I just object to police wearing masks. Got a mask on and a gun, to me that says criminal. I know the guy in the picture is a cop, but I don;t think cops should wear masks. Period. Why couldn't this so called sniper be wearing a mask and have on a shirt that says police?

This is not meant to offend any cops who may be wearing masks as they read this.

Scott Conklin · October 13, 2002, 10:14 AM

The mask is merely one more sign of the immature fixation civilian LEO has taken with militarization. The line is wavering and that is not a bad thing, it's one of the worst possible things for freedom in what once was a Republic. IF it is a legitimate question of identity, which I don't buy for one moment, then these officers should not be out there. The departments in question have more than sufficient manpower to keep their undercovers under cover. It isn't worth the risk.

KSFreeman · October 13, 2002, 10:31 AM

He is not an undercover cop. If he was, he would not be there, he would be working the case. People with masks get identified all the time. Robbery detectives do it everyday.

The problem is that he is not doing it to protect himself. As I have said before, I could see the use of a mask if he was wearing one to protect himself against meth chemicals or flashbang grenades. I could care less if he just has his badge clipped to his belt (or around his neck as on TV) or is in full polyester.

However, this mall ninja wannabe is doing it to scare people. It should not be allowed. Just because police may or may not have a tough job does not allow them to act this way. Yellow footprints.

This does not mean you get to hurt anyone. Have him fired immediately and the person that allowed this fired as well. Just because they are investigating an alleged crime does not mean the police get to act however they wish so they can feel better.

October 12, 2002, 08:11 PM	#101
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	SE DC?!? I'll take my chances with the evil masked goblins, thank you! __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

October 12, 2002, 08:21 PM	#102
MessedUpMike Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Metro DC Posts: 247	SE DC? Aha, a local! I don't live there I just work there (FD). With all of the other shootings the "sniper" would even get noticed down there. But there not much room for long distance shots, and the chances of returned fire are big! And that's not limited to LE! Mike __________________ "Crush your enemies, See them driven before you, Hear the lamentations of their women" Ghengis Khan on the greatest joys in life The second amendment protects all of the others.

October 12, 2002, 08:37 PM	#104
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	Here's a question for the folks here who say cop + mask = BG = shoot now! Suppose that you witnessed a Cartel murder surrendipitiously? Suppose you could positively id the killer(s)? Suppose you had the license plate number of the killer's car too? Now, if you could stop filling your pants long enough to move, would you: call the police? volunteer to witness during the trial? walk away and figure that someone else would take care of it? or (and I have to add this for the ninja wannabes) charge in with both you main piece and back up blazing and in a two fisted shoot out kill the killers and rescue the maiden who's tied up in the trunk? Now, let's suppose that you finally found your feet and emptied your drawers, calle dthe police and now it is trail time; do you walk in with your head high and face on the papers because you are not a criminal and do not need to hide your face from anyone? Or do you let the marshals sneak you in the underground parking and up the back stairs so you can testify behind a partion so that only the judge can see you? Remember, you're not a criminal. You have no reason to hide your identity. Nor does your family have any right or reason to expect you to stay anonymous so they will live to see next week. If you chose to hide your face, why is your life any more valuble than the undercover cop's? __________________ "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." JFK My other favorite forum is The Armed Citizen My PGP key is 0x780B7C0A

October 12, 2002, 08:41 PM	#105
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	Oop, Libertarian beat me to the reply button. Anyway...... We probably wojuldn't wanna do that. According to other posters around here, many of the "responsible" gun owners around here would be running you over with their cars or shootin you on sight, no questions asked. Or, you could wear a mask in the proper environment - hunting, skiing, cold weather, or if you're undercover law enforcement, during operations in public when your indentity could put you in jeopardy. __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

October 12, 2002, 08:46 PM	#106
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	I'll wage Halloween night is a bunch of fun in the neighborhoods of some of our members. "Mask!" BLAM! "Another mask!" BLAM! __________________ "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." JFK My other favorite forum is The Armed Citizen My PGP key is 0x780B7C0A

October 12, 2002, 08:28 PM	#103
lgm_rambone Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2002 Posts: 109	Maybe we should all walk around with a Mask and Vest that has CIVILIAN in big white letters on it. Drive around, go shopping. Let see if the Police have an issue with that. Gosh I wouldn't want my girlfriend to see me with my wife while shopping.

October 12, 2002, 08:52 PM	#107
MessedUpMike Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Metro DC Posts: 247	"Mask!" BLAM! "Another mask!" BLAM! That was to funny Mike __________________ "Crush your enemies, See them driven before you, Hear the lamentations of their women" Ghengis Khan on the greatest joys in life The second amendment protects all of the others.

October 12, 2002, 08:54 PM	#108
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	Oh comon Libertarian, you can do better than that. How about this: Ding! Dong! "Trick'r Treat!" BLAM! BLAMBLAM! or.... "Honey I told you I didn't want to come to Fred's Halloween party,..." "Oh you be quiet. You'll like him, and I made all this potato salad for the party anyway, now ring the door bell!" Ding! Dong! "Oh hey! Tom and Sue, nice to see you guys could make it, come on in..." "Honey? What are doing reaching into your jacket? HoNEYYY NOOOOOOO!" BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!! BLAMBLAM! BLAM! Might go something like that. Use your imagination. Everyone else is. __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

October 12, 2002, 09:11 PM	#109
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Libertarian, closed courtrooms, screens, secret hearings? Maybe on tv and in admin hearing as for the new immigration violations, but a state court? Doubtful (granted I'm not licensed in Old Virginny), even juvenile courts have been opened up recently. The accused will always know who the "undercover" cop is. There's no reason to shoot any police officers or trick or treaters. Moreover, there's no reason to let some podunk cop to play out his mall ninja delusions. Instead of hurting anyone, why not just fire them and have Chief Wiggum who is allowing this fired as well? Dangus, again, it has nothing to do with me knowing he's a cop. It is about bring the government to heel. They do not have the right to act in secret stalking about like ninjas. They do not have the right to bully and intimidate. I know the East Coast Eloi are wetting their beds and bleating overtime, but I won't have a madman give government act as the thugs they wish to be. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

October 12, 2002, 09:52 PM	#110
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	1. I will stake my entire years salary that he was not out there wearing a balaclava because he wants to run around and be a ninja. Please, you undermine your legitimate points (which are scarce enough, I dare say) with such drivel. 2. Anonymity? Does anyone here seriously think that if, accused of wrongdoing, the identity of this officer for the purpose of discipline or criminal charges could not be obtained? If it can be, than he is not exercising his power anonymously. 3. Intimidation? Are we at TFL seriously so weak-kneed that we shudder at the sight of a garment? Aren't we who the ones who chide that antis that they should not be afraid of weaponry, which can actually cause physical harm? And we are afraid of clothing? Wow. My faith in this bastion of bravery and manliness is being sorely tested. Oh but wait, we'll prove our courage by running him over of popping a cap in him. Suuuuure we will. I don't say this very often, and it is a serious slip in my decorum. But grow up. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 12, 2002, 10:27 PM	#111
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Cor, if the wannabe isn't wearing it for intimidation (like the Euro po-po), then why is he wearing it. We seem to agree that he can't be the Lone Ranger (apologies to TFL's Lone Ranger--who, btw, only wears dark shooting glasses in skul, not a mask) and protect his secret identity (that was always just silly to me). So, if isn't playing wannabe go fast operator or trying to bully people, why the heckiedurn is this moron wearing it? __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

October 12, 2002, 11:02 PM	#112
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	He's U-N-D-E-R-C-O-V-E-R. Undercover policemen/women pulling off their current caseload to help out with the search for the sniper need to stay anonymous. You're a lawyer, right? Do you not understand the reason undercover police have to stay anonymous in public, until their case is in court? __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

October 13, 2002, 12:07 AM	#113
Kenneth Bowen Junior Member Join Date: March 23, 2002 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca Posts: 12	There are a bunch of irrational posts here. 1) Suggesting shooting or running over the officer is weird. 2) It's ok to question whether or not law enforcement shoud be wearing masks; We are lucky to live in a democratic republic where the citizenry SHOULD question authority. 3) Questioning the use of masks does not diminish the wish to apprehend the miscreant in the DC area. There may be an occasional need for a law enforcement officer to wear a mask. My personal fealing is that in many recent instances, it's overdone.

October 13, 2002, 12:25 AM	#114
bastiat Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2001 Posts: 1,771	If this had happened: Reporter: "Were you able to conduct traffic stops on all roads out of the shooting area?" Police Rep: "No, we had a shortage of manpower. There were some undercover officers we could have used, but because of the sensitive nature of their work, we couldn't have them working in a high-visibility situation like this." If they had done this, many of the same people complaining about the masks would be complaining that the police weren't using every available officer to catch the killer. Sad but true. __________________ Flashbunny.org - Pro-Freedom Propaganda Politically Incorrect & Pro-Gun Stuff To Buy

October 13, 2002, 12:30 AM	#115
westex Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 1999 Location: E of El Paso & W of Ft. Worth Posts: 602	Been tempted to post again several times on this thread but KS you don't need any help with the pro bandito boys. In fact it looks one has gone over the edge and the other 2 are not far behind. I guess too many donuts will do that to you.

October 13, 2002, 12:39 AM	#116
Cosmoline Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2000 Posts: 1,080	Looks like these cops have been recruiting from the ranks of our old friend THE MALL NINJA! Next they'll be leaning down from the roof of the car, politely asking for your license. __________________ "Know that the pistol has no value, we practically don't use it. We need grenades, rifles, machine guns, and explosives." Mordechai Anielewicz, April 23, 1943

October 13, 2002, 12:42 AM	#117
bastiat Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2001 Posts: 1,771	'Pro Bandito Boys'? Hah. Any of the 'Bandito Boy' bashers cops? Any of them work under cover? Would any of the "I'd run them over" crowd have the guts to work undercover for a living, trying to fit in with the scummiest of the scum, and then parade around as a cop, in one of the highest profile situations in the country, for all to see? Hey, this calls for a poll! __________________ Flashbunny.org - Pro-Freedom Propaganda Politically Incorrect & Pro-Gun Stuff To Buy

October 13, 2002, 01:54 AM	#118
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	Yeah, I can see it now. Minding my own business, driving home from work...then suddenly, there they are. Little masked jack booted thugs. They are crossing the street. I drop the car into 3rd and accelerate. Before they are able to raise their M-249's that are obviously disguised in those pillow cases, I cut hard left and jam up the E-brake. I do a high speed skid and knock down all 5 of them like bowling pins. Yes it is October 31st, yeah, they might have been trick or treaters. But they should have known better than to wear the mask. I step from the car, one of them is still alive, I do a double tap to the head. I am a car owner. I am a gun owner. I run over and shoot first, I ask questions later. Anyone else think I went too far with that one? Anyone else think I sound rediculous? Since when do CCW holders start acting like dumb arses and state they shoot first and ask questions later? When do responsible people who have been waiting in traffic for an hour due to all of the blue and red flashing lights ahead, suddenly see a hooded man with "police" on his vest, gun it and take the guy out? Give the bravado and tough guy stance up. I seriously doubt with all of the other cops around, there was a need for these guys to go running around with their hoods on. I think it is more likely that the uniformed cops wanted to kick back since they only had maybe a shotgun and their pistol, and let the gung-ho swat and UC guys go running around with their ARs checking out the vehicles. Why leave the road block when they can do that for you? Afterall, if you were searching for this guy, what would you want to be carrying? I just trump this all up to bad decision making. I say we find some e-mail for the department and start asking these questions there, instead of wasting our time here. And if you are going to e-mail, don't be an idiot and state you would have run him over or shot him on the spot. State that as a concerned citizen who carries a firearm for self-defense, the sight of a masked man approaching your vehicle would alarm you. Uniformed officers tend to make you less nervous and make everyone safer. __________________ Get Some!

October 13, 2002, 02:32 AM	#119
Mariner Member Join Date: December 16, 2001 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 18	Sounds to me like KSFreeman is one of those who would rather have channel 9 investigating this case. The mask does nothing to reduce his ability to identify himself as an LEO. __________________ They say that 77% of the mentally ill live below the poverty line. I'm more intrigued by the other 23%, who are apparently doing quite well for themselves. Fighting ignorance one post at a time.

October 13, 2002, 04:35 AM	#121
Dangus Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2000 Location: IA Posts: 1,907	Some of you guys have such an immature fixation with cops behaving at all times precisely the way you want them to act that you don't even think about the possible facts. Why is it so damn wrong for undercover guys to hide who they are? Their lives are forfeit if they are seen doing traffic stops on TV by the badguys they will be going back to facing. Have you ever seen undercover cops? They often look very scruffy, very un-coplike. In fact, most people would probably think "Holy crap, that guy's not a cop!" if they saw them WITHOUT the mask on. The mask probably makes them look more cop-like. What the hell does a hood do to your civil liberties? NOTHING. If you want to run over, gun down, or otherwise mutilate an officer of the law who is trying to stop a dangerous mass murderer, fine, but I'll be cheering them on as the rest of the cops hunt you down for it. Lay off and let these people do their damn job. They've got a job right now that is so hard they are all probably stressing out of their minds. If playing Mall Ninja(tm) is all they are doing, so what? Maybe it makes them feel more confident, and if that helps them perform better, good. Once this is over, if they are still playing Mall Ninja(tm), then by all means take them to court, complain to the press, gripe on this board, lobby to have their rules changed, whatever, but for now give them a break and realize they have a job to do that you would never want to have to do. It's dangerous, it's long hours, and it's emotionally draining. Seeing this shooter stopped is VITAL to our movement. He's already caused so much sensational stir and given the antis so much ammo to fight us with, why let him get more just so you can avoid seeing a few cops with masks on. Think about this one folks. It's just fabric covering a head, that's ALL it is. As for Spain, kidnapping is a national epidemic there, cops can't afford to be identified, because their families would disappear and be replaced with ransom notes. The police in Spain have some extremely bad terrorism problems that you clearly don't understand well. __________________ Help Fight Cancer I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist "Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them."

October 13, 2002, 06:52 AM	#122
Ed Brunner Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Natchez, MS, USA Posts: 2,562	I really like the idea of a mask and a vest marked CIVILIAN! I don't like masked civil servants. If he was there with a lot of uniformed officers, was he really needed? And do we really need or want undercover police persons? Beruit or DC? This stuff is like gun control. As long as we accept it, it will continue to get worse. __________________ MOLON LABE UNTIL IT'S OVER! Ed

October 13, 2002, 10:14 AM	#124
Scott Conklin Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2000 Location: B.F.E. Posts: 1,721	The mask is merely one more sign of the immature fixation civilian LEO has taken with militarization. The line is wavering and that is not a bad thing, it's one of the worst possible things for freedom in what once was a Republic. IF it is a legitimate question of identity, which I don't buy for one moment, then these officers should not be out there. The departments in question have more than sufficient manpower to keep their undercovers under cover. It isn't worth the risk. __________________ "Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves bananas, they'll never climb another tree." - Heinlein www.libertydwells.com

October 13, 2002, 10:31 AM	#125
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	He is not an undercover cop. If he was, he would not be there, he would be working the case. People with masks get identified all the time. Robbery detectives do it everyday. The problem is that he is not doing it to protect himself. As I have said before, I could see the use of a mask if he was wearing one to protect himself against meth chemicals or flashbang grenades. I could care less if he just has his badge clipped to his belt (or around his neck as on TV) or is in full polyester. However, this mall ninja wannabe is doing it to scare people. It should not be allowed. Just because police may or may not have a tough job does not allow them to act this way. Yellow footprints. This does not mean you get to hurt anyone. Have him fired immediately and the person that allowed this fired as well. Just because they are investigating an alleged crime does not mean the police get to act however they wish so they can feel better. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).