New Walther, HK, and P226 today

[wild cat mccane]

Hi. Yes. I have three. I took the Steel Q5 and new polmer today.

The polymer is fantastic. No complaints. I dont take my phone out at the range. But excellent shooter. Did not need to adjust the LPA rear at all.

At 640 I think is a top range gun buy right now.

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

This is the HK VP9 magazine back to back with the Walther PDP magazine, with the PDP magazine on the right. There’s enough height difference there that I wouldn’t call them the same. I can see how the HK would have at least one more round. I think you could get one more round in the PDP magazine, like the older P99 magazines you mentioned, but it would be tight.

The PDP magazine comes in two sizes depending on the pistol size.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by 101combatvet

The PDP magazine comes in two sizes depending on the pistol size.

I’m aware. That is the 15 rd compact PDP magazine, which is the same as the button release PPQ magazine and is the one wild cat was talking about (as he specifically mentioned 15 rd capacity). The full-size PDP magazine holds 18 rd. All of this assuming you don’t live in a state with restricted magazine capacities.

[wild cat mccane]

Just to be clear and not have me be the source of confusion, the picture is exactly right. But as I wrote it, I said that on the table (mag bases holding the mags upright), the P30/VP9 mags are exactly the same height as the Walther 15rnd mags.

The angle of the P30/VP9 mags is where the extra round gets picked up because they are almost exactly level.

A very interesting observation as I had a P99 that had 16rnd mags that Walther then downgraded to 15rds because people were having slide locking issues with 16rnds. The bullet ramp on the slide plus the 16rnd was locking the P99 slide up (for some).

More interesting is how the 20rnd Walther mag never seemed to be a hit while functioning perfect in the P99 and PPQ M1, but the 18rnd M2 mag has alread gone through 2 followers. I love my 20rnders and the lack of polymer contouring is mute as the compact grip gets all my hand anyways. The secret kept them cheap. On average, I don't think most hands need the Walther "full sized" grip. Not an absolute statement, but I doubt most hands hit the curve at the bottom for the full 18rnd grip.

Just an interesting history is all. HK chased the P99 with the P30, so to me, it's interesting.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

Just to be clear and not have me be the source of confusion, the picture is exactly right. But as I wrote it, I said that on the table (mag bases holding the mags upright), the P30/VP9 mags are exactly the same height as the Walther 15rnd mags.

The angle of the P30/VP9 mags is where the extra round gets picked up because they are almost exactly level.

Understood, and you’re right that I glossed over you said height as they stand. My point is the height as they stand doesn’t capture the difference in dimensions, because of that angle, and that is likely in part how the capacity is different.

The 18 rd PDP magazines are interesting to me. Aesthetically they seem different than the PDP compact magazines (smooth sides without grooves) and dimensionally they’re a tad skinnier, too. It seems to me like a new design. My guess as to why they didn’t reuse the 20 rd magazines is they were interested more in creating a new sized grip than creating extended magazines for the compact, and the size of the 18 rd worked better for that.

Both of us have in the past acknowledged that we don’t have what might be considered large hands, and while I also don’t find the Compact grip cramped, I know guys with larger hands that do. I also think the full size PDP is meant in part as a competitor to the Glock 17, as this pistol, like its name indicates, seems to be an attempt on Walther’s part to get more into the law enforcement market. Having a larger pistol for patrol officers carrying on an exposed belt makes some sense.

[wild cat mccane]

Not to dwwwwell too long on it, but I think too it interesting that the polymer HK base plate is at least 2xs taller than the Walther.

So even stacking them upright is a bit deceiving:




P30/VP9 17rnd, PPQ 15rnd, Walther 20rnd:


Walther 20rnd difference:


The 20rnder looks in person significantly thinner, but turns out it is just rounded where the 15rnder has sharp corners. Just visual confusion, but same width.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

Not to dwwwwell too long on it, but I think too it interesting that the polymer HK base plate is at least 2xs taller than the Walther.

So even stacking them upright is a bit deceiving

I noticed that too when I took my picture, but I think the floorplate still factors in to the height comparison because the locking plate for the HK magazine spring sits down in the recess of the floorplate, so that height in the floorplate still factors in to the dimensions of the magazine available for storing cartridges.

The conversion kits for the older 15 rd magazines to make them 17 rd include the follower, spring, locking plate, and floorplate. Threads on HKPro seem to indicate just replacing the follower by itself only gains you one additional round, so the whole setup of the internals factors in to the final 17 rd capacity.

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/vp9-p3...ipping.535713/

[wild cat mccane]

Yes! Exactly.

I'm curious what the non 17rnd floor plate looks like.

17 is more than 15. But the width sticking out is more than less width and that exact thought has me curious

[TunnelRat]

I do think the floorplates on these 17 rd magazines wiggle more than what I remember from my older VP9. They seem a bit less secure. There’s a thread somewhere on HKPro where people question if the new style compromises reliability at all (for years the story on HKPro was that HK went with less capacity to ensure reliability, a bit of coping behavior). But someone from HK jumped on and said they had tested the new style for some time. To be fair I’ve never had any issues with the newer magazines.

Some time back I picked up some of the conversion kits when they were on a heavy sale. I’m hoping to try them on the P2000 magazines (I think you’ve mentioned seeing the threads about doing that). To do that I’d have to Dremel off that nub on the front of the P30 floorplate, or maybe pick up some of the flat floorplates for the USP 9c/P2000 (I may have some in the parts bin).

[wild cat mccane]

Did you make the call on picking up a P2000?

More I think about it, it's what I should have gotten over the P30. Considering ordering one right now...

For my hand, that little bit at the bottom of the P30 grip is unused, so the difference of bringing it up while giving nothing up on barrel...tempting. The slide profile looks pretty slick too.

The V3 81000041 at $660 is calling. But again, lame that the P30 with 3 mags and NS is that price. Then it's almost a jump to $800 for the P2000 with the 3 mags and NS.

The P2000 doesn't come with the flat plates right? I was reading posters mention they are a bit pricey to pick up too.

[TunnelRat]

Yeah I have a P2000 on a paid hold, hoping to pick up Friday. Was used for $510, I’d say very good to excellent condition (date code on the frame of last year). Between the magazine conversion kits and the short reset kit from GrayGuns there was enough to try to rationalize it for myself. I like the size of the P2000 better personally. I do agree it’s a bit odd that it ends up being more money new.

If you order the floorplates directly from HK’s webshop or HKparts they’re oddly expensive (I could have sworn they were a lot cheaper on the webshop before Christmas). If you order from MidwayUSA or Midwest Gunworks they’re not nearly as bad. One way to look at it is order the floorplates for magazines you plan to carry, and don’t worry about them for magazines that you might just use at the range and deal with the default pinky extensions for those.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006068214

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/215843

[wild cat mccane]

Lucky guy! Glad to hear you got a deal.

They do appear to not hold their value as well. But I haven't seen a used one for a bit on gunbroker.

I know you said even with the grayguns you were able to outrun it. I'm betting the same, but the want of ownership is real

[TunnelRat]

So I may have misspoke before, but I have never tried the GrayGuns reset kit in a P series HK. Without it I could outrun the trigger at speed. I have tried that kit in an HK45 and didn’t think it made a huge difference there, but the reset on a HK45 is more like a USP anyway so maybe diminishing returns.

I’ve sort of accepted that I won’t be super impressed anyway, but I am cleaning out the safe so I have some money to tinker with and I think I’ll be able to get a good chunk of this back if I did end up selling it.

[wild cat mccane]

Well, I might have misquoted too.

Yes. I'm not expecting massive change, but I'm looking forward to getting the grayguns kit and that 10lbs spring in.

I think you're right. I do love to hear someone made a score

[wild cat mccane]

TunnelRat, what variant did you pick up? V2 or V3?

[wild cat mccane]

The micro HK dropped into reality today too

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

TunnelRat, what variant did you pick up? V2 or V3?

It’s a V3. I’ve had a LEM model in the past and it wasn’t my cup of tea. With the V3 you can go to a V2 (though not officially supported), but you can’t go the reverse.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

The micro HK dropped into reality today too

I saw that, but every post I saw claimed it wasn’t going to be available until 2024, and then for LE testing.

[Oogie34]

Of all the pistols I have ever fired, my P226 is my favorite. It's a standard model with the SRT trigger that I installed. Right out of the box the trigger was so smooth and just a joy compared to my P30 V3. With the SRT installed, it got even better. I also have a P229 Elite Carry that came with the SRT. It's a close second to my P226. If the P229 was just a little smaller and lighter it would be my CCW piece. I'm considering gettting a P239 for ccw even though they're discontinued.

The P30 is great, but due to the trigger I must admit it's a gun that I am really trying to get myself to love. I just don't shoot as well with it as I do my Sigs. The Grayguns reset kit definitely helped. I just put in an 11lb Lazy Wolf hammer spring that also helped a little. I tried the Lazy Wolf 10lb spring, but didn't notice a difference so I went with the heavier 11lb. I am considering giving the Grayguns straight trigger a try, but I really don't want to drop 100 bucks on a trigger I won't even like. I normally don't like flat triggers, but the fact that it breaks at 90 degrees sounds appealing.

It just goes to show that just because a gun feels good in your hand, it doesn't mean you're going to shoot it well.

[wild cat mccane]

Yes, my new experience too. I am trying to love the p30 at this point with its trigger. Thinking a p2000 will replace it, but for size.

The p226 has a better trigger for sure. The reset is probably unmatched.

I wish the stainless frame would come back. I do think the frame is an area to consider.

What Sig needs to do is dechunk the 2022. A true p226 polymer e2 grip? Wowzer