9mm military brass

Bucksnort1 · January 12, 2023, 01:09 PM

While gathering 9mm for a friend, I noticed the following.

Primer is sealed.

Headstamp has is Sellier and Bellot P.S. with the small circle and a + in it, which is typical of US military brass.

When he loads this brass, does he need to remove crimping in the primer pocket?

Are there any other concerns for loading?

Is S&B loading for US military?

**44 AMP** · January 12, 2023, 02:25 PM

Primer and bullet sealed into the case is a general military requirement, making the ammo as waterproof (and oil proof) as practical.

Crimped in primers are a common military requirement, to prevent primers from being loosened due to vibrations in shipping or use. The US generally uses a "ring" type crimp others use that, or a "stab" type where the crimp is two or three spots not all the way around.

It needs to be removed IF it interferes with seating a new primer during reloading. Usually it does...

Military brass is often thicker than commercial brass and therefore should be kept separate and have its own loads worked up, to prevent pressure problems.

The "cross in a circle" is not a US military marking. IT is a NATO marking. You find it on ammo made to be acceptable for NATO use. Our current military ammo is, and has the NATO mark showing that. Not sure when we began putting that stamp on our rounds, but we didn't do it in the beginning, even in NATO standard calibers. I've got bunches of 60s-70s USGI ammo in 7.62 NATO (.308 Win) that doesn't have the cross in circle marking.

Hope this helps!

**Unclenick** · January 12, 2023, 05:08 PM

S&B, specifically, usually has two diametrically opposing small circles on their headstamps, but made-for-military ammo will have the headstamp dictated by the military customer.

The two NATO symbols are about compatibility for firing functionality and compatibility for ballistics (sight calibration, windage, range, etc.).

**Aguila Blanca** · January 12, 2023, 05:25 PM

When I have bought S&B ammo for .45 ACP in the past, it had sealed primers. I don't recall the primer pockets being crimped.

**Unclenick** · January 12, 2023, 10:31 PM

Did it have a NATO compatibility symbol? My guess is crimping would be an important element of NATO compatibility because the U.S. military started doing it to prevent loose primers from jamming full-auto weapons.

January 12, 2023, 01:09 PM	#1
Bucksnort1 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2013 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 1,121	9mm military brass While gathering 9mm for a friend, I noticed the following. Primer is sealed. Headstamp has is Sellier and Bellot P.S. with the small circle and a + in it, which is typical of US military brass. When he loads this brass, does he need to remove crimping in the primer pocket? Are there any other concerns for loading? Is S&B loading for US military?

January 12, 2023, 02:25 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Primer and bullet sealed into the case is a general military requirement, making the ammo as waterproof (and oil proof) as practical. Crimped in primers are a common military requirement, to prevent primers from being loosened due to vibrations in shipping or use. The US generally uses a "ring" type crimp others use that, or a "stab" type where the crimp is two or three spots not all the way around. It needs to be removed IF it interferes with seating a new primer during reloading. Usually it does... Military brass is often thicker than commercial brass and therefore should be kept separate and have its own loads worked up, to prevent pressure problems. The "cross in a circle" is not a US military marking. IT is a NATO marking. You find it on ammo made to be acceptable for NATO use. Our current military ammo is, and has the NATO mark showing that. Not sure when we began putting that stamp on our rounds, but we didn't do it in the beginning, even in NATO standard calibers. I've got bunches of 60s-70s USGI ammo in 7.62 NATO (.308 Win) that doesn't have the cross in circle marking. Hope this helps! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 12, 2023, 05:25 PM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	When I have bought S&B ammo for .45 ACP in the past, it had sealed primers. I don't recall the primer pockets being crimped. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

January 12, 2023, 10:31 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Did it have a NATO compatibility symbol? My guess is crimping would be an important element of NATO compatibility because the U.S. military started doing it to prevent loose primers from jamming full-auto weapons. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle