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Old May 21, 2019, 03:08 PM   #26
stephen426
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I think one of the biggest challenges with using small guns is the decreased sight radius. It is much harder to make precise shots especially since most of the sights are usually meant for much closer ranges. If you have nice small fiber optic sights, it may help, but longer sight radius makes a big difference. If you have a tiny gun with groove only, good luck hitting anything consistently.

As for effective energy, 100 yards isn't that far for a pistol round. According to gundata.org American Eagle drops from 1120 fps at the muzzle to 959 fps at 100 yards for a loss of 14.375%. The energy drops from 345 to 253 lb-ft. Bullet drop was 12.03" for that given round. The energy at 253 lb-ft is enough to incapacitate someone. How fast will it incapacitate someone? That depends on where they get hit. Is a sub-compact pistol ideal to engage someone 100 yards away? Not really. If push comes to shove and you need to defend yourself, you do what you have to do with what you have to do.
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Old May 21, 2019, 03:21 PM   #27
Bartholomew Roberts
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Wont be many “small” handguns that can penetrate 12” of gel at 100 yds. Would expect it to be magnums only.
According to my balliistics calculator, a 9mm 124gr Gold Dot that starts at 1100fps is still at 940fps at 100m. If anything, I’d wager penetration will increase as the bullet drops below the velocity where it reliably expands.

As to accuracy, with a 6” A-zone, it seems a pistol/shooter that will hold 12” at 100yds (about 3” at 25yds) should give you about 50/50 odds of landing an A-zone hit if you are consistent in your application and skill. So your chances that one out of three shots ends up in the A-zone would be fairly respectable.
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Old May 22, 2019, 07:53 AM   #28
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I imagine that all of the popular service cartridges would be capable of 12" of penetration in gel at 100 yards so getting the hits would be the issue.

There was an incident in 2012 where an armed citizen got four hits with a .357 on a man armed with a rifle. The man with the rifle had murdered two of his neighbors and was shooting at a police officer when the citizen engaged him at fifty yards and stopped the bad guy. There are incidents where police and MPs successfully engaged armed attackers at longer ranges than fifty yards using their service handguns.

An off duty officer in Athens GA engaged a robber who had just shot a security guard. The officer used an Airweight and got a hit across the parking lot that wounded the robber. The robber wasn't stopped but the wound led to his capture in a few hours. I don't remember what the distance was but I do remember it being far greater than the seven yards that is mentioned as the average gun fight distance. Making a hit with his Airweight at long range while the robber was shooting at him with a full sized 1911 impressed me.

None of that answers the OP's question but it seems like the folks I have read about getting stops at distances greater than 40 yards were all using duty sized weapons.
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Old May 22, 2019, 08:00 AM   #29
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Five consecutive shots from an FN FiveSeven at 100 yards. See my post #27 in the FN FiveSeven thread. (For some reason I get an error message when I try to repost the photo into this thread,)
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...=571522&page=2
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Old May 23, 2019, 12:04 PM   #30
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"...able to deliver A or B zone hits..." That's more about the shooter than the firearm. A .25 ACP FMJ will go right through a 2 x 4 at 100 yards though. Assuming you can hit it. The 4" side being 3.75" not 4". I recall it being a Baby Browning. It wasn't recently or by me.
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Old May 25, 2019, 01:34 PM   #31
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I would say within the confines of the question that the 357 SIG would be the "BEST"

Here is a link you can compare the common bullets and their trajectories etc:

https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammuniti...n/default.aspx
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Old May 25, 2019, 03:05 PM   #32
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A .25 ACP FMJ will go right through a 2 x 4 at 100 yards though. Assuming you can hit it. The 4" side being 3.75" not 4".
Either you're showing your age, Sir, or 2x4s are different in Canada than they are in the U.S. When I first started out as an architect in the early 1970s, a "2x4" measured 1-5/8" x 3-5/8". Within a very few years that had morphed down to 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" and it has remained there ever since.
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Old May 25, 2019, 05:55 PM   #33
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Rough cut they are still 2x4". Take 1/4" off each side, giving the smooth surface usually desired, you're down to 3.5x1.5" .
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Old May 25, 2019, 06:01 PM   #34
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I've shot my Glock 27 at 20 yards standing and that's about as far as I can be effective with it. Any further and I need to be rested. Have tried 50 yards with it sitting and rested and it's not a guarantee, maybe 33 to 50 percent of the time I hit.

I'd have to say a revolver, probably a 3 inch barrel with adj. sights and it has to have a light SA trigger and be no larger than .38 in caliber. I have a 2 inch snub .38 Armscor/Rock Island and I was doing well with it standing at 50y. Give me a better revolver and a 3 inch barrel and I can probably do 100y 3 out of 4 shots.
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Old May 25, 2019, 11:14 PM   #35
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Eh, I’ve shot my Glock 26 standing out to 100yds with no trouble. It wasn’t 100% hits; but you wouldn’t have a lot of time to think “What is that idiot doing?”

At the same time I’ve missed a head shot on a target at contact distance with a 642. Not just “didn’t hit head” but “missed entire target after pressed the muzzle against desired target area.” 99.99% of my trigger time was with single-action semi-autos and given a double-action, I ganked the trigger.
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Old May 25, 2019, 11:31 PM   #36
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I’m with Aguila Blanca. With present company excepted , I don’t think there are many people that could hit a Pickup truck at 100 yards in 3 shots.
After watching people shoot at several ranges most of the general public probably couldn’t hit a pickup truck at 25 yards.
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Old May 26, 2019, 01:06 PM   #37
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I will agree that "most people" aren't great shots. But, why does it matter what "most people" can, or can't do??

Most people don't shoot my guns, I shoot my guns, and if I can do something most people can't, then yay for me... Doesn't mean most people are any less, just means I have a skill they don't.
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Old May 27, 2019, 06:21 AM   #38
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I think most people just lack the opportunity to try it so of course, they don’t really develop any skill in that area. At my peak, I was maybe a B-class shooter and I’m probably more of a C-class now. It is still doable for me though it would require some concentration on my part and the short sight radius would be an issue since I don’t get much opportunity to do it myself these days. My point being it doesn’t require any special skill so much as it requires the facilities to try it - outside of a private range, that can be tough to find.
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Old May 27, 2019, 08:58 AM   #39
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A .308 Win will make the shot every time, and it'll fill your big game tags.

A handgun is a close range weapon.

It wise to use the right tool for specific jobs.
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Old May 27, 2019, 02:05 PM   #40
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A .308 Win will make the shot every time, and it'll fill your big game tags.

A handgun is a close range weapon.

It wise to use the right tool for specific jobs.
A 2 pound pistol is a lot easier to carry than an 8 pound rifle.
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Old May 31, 2019, 12:02 AM   #41
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I regularly shoot my .45 at 100. Usually causing palpitations to the range Officer.

I’m using an old Wilson Master Grade .45. (1989 vintage).



I’m not sure about other calibers but, this quote made me realize a .45 is still pretty formidable at 100 yards.

“The military actually tested penetration into white pine during the early days (230gr. FMJ, 825fps at muzzle). It would still penetrate 4" or so at 250 yards.”

Other than long barreled revolvers, the only other “carry” gun I’ve tried shooting at 100 is an HKP7M8. That gun is phenomenally accurate.

Any gun much smaller than that would be really difficult for me to shoot at 100. Not to mention, both the Wilson and the HK have spectacular triggers. Most carry guns A: just aren’t very good for a full grip. B: a really short sight radius and C: crappy triggers.
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Old May 31, 2019, 07:47 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
I will agree that "most people" aren't great shots. But, why does it matter what "most people" can, or can't do??

Most people don't shoot my guns, I shoot my guns, and if I can do something most people can't, then yay for me... Doesn't mean most people are any less, just means I have a skill they don't.
It's a wise man that assumes his opponent has an equal or greater skill than he himself has. Were push ever come to shove for myself, I would imagine my opponent(s) skills to be that of Bill Hickok, "Jelly" Bryce, Clyde Barrow, John Wesley Hardin, Annie Oakley- - or even better than all them combined.
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Old May 31, 2019, 05:34 PM   #43
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22 LR !
Box says warning range 1.5 miles . But it all mostly depends on how well you can shoot .
A miss is as good as a mile !
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Old May 31, 2019, 06:03 PM   #44
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What is the smallest handgun that is still effective at 100m?

let me put it a different way, what is the smallest handgun YOU can make hits with at 100m??

Because if the gun has the necessary accuracy, and fires a round that meets your gel penetration requirements, if YOU aren't up to making the shot, then it really doesn't matter, does it??

Given time to practice and learn the gun and ammo, it can be done with a lot of pistols. Even some pocket guns. Small guns make it more difficult, but that's a matter of degree. Like shooting long range with a blackpowder round, it can be done, but requires a level of skill different from other kinds of shooting.
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Old June 15, 2019, 07:38 AM   #45
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Years ago, I read a gun magazine article (wish I could find it) where they fired a bunch of pocket and mouse guns at 100 yards, from NAA minis up to Smith j frames. The .38 snubs were the most accurate, but that was mostly attributed to having more visible sights.
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Old June 15, 2019, 07:55 AM   #46
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We have a 25/50/75/100/200 meter cowboy action steel silhouette range at my club and I am comfortable out to 50 meters. I've tried 75m and I do occasionally ping the Ram but I can't spot my missed shots in the berm, therefore I call this an unsafe situation for me. I shoot my scoped 12" 460 mag out to 200m but that is off a rest and this is not really comparing apples to apples. No way would I proficiently be able to shoot a typical handgun offhand at 100m
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Old June 17, 2019, 03:58 PM   #47
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Any firearm employed against someone at 100m (108+ yards) isn't considered as a self defense use because the legal system will assume that you are far enough away from the threat to escape and evade rather than use deadly force to end the threat. Therefore, any use of a pistol with the capability to wound/kill a human at that range is going to be viewed legally as attempted murder.

More importantly, there probably isn't 1 pistol shooter in 100,000 who can accurately engage a threat at 100m with a standard SD type pistol so considering a specific type / caliber of pistol for use at that range for SD is not only illegal but folly.
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Old June 17, 2019, 07:27 PM   #48
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The ballistics of a typical 5" barrel in a semi-auto add up to about a 10 MOA. And that doesn't include the shooter, who probably isn't anywhere near that good at 100 yards. Not to mention that most handgun rounds are *far* from a Match or precision ELR round.

My guess is overall, a 'very good' shooter and handgun would be lucky to achieve 10" group at 100 yards. But probably not.
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Old June 18, 2019, 04:11 AM   #49
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could you define effective? Do you mean whether your five dollar bullet and thousand dollar gun can knock an opponent down as effectively as a 9mm combat round at 50 feet?

At 100 yards I am going to say that no round that lacks the magnum designation could be a good round to be shooting at live meat out that far. You won't get two hits at that range unless you are performing a covert assassination.

My suggestion for a reliable round at 100 yards is a .44 magnum and nothing smaller. IF you manage to get a single round into a body at long distance you want it to be the most powerful round that you can use.

I know a goose hunter that drops gees almost out to that distance. He's too smart to think that he could drop a deer with a shotgun at that distance, no matter what load he is using.
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Old June 18, 2019, 07:47 AM   #50
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My Rock Island 1911 in .22 TCM is suppose to be a flat shooter ( whatever the hell that means - LOL ) --- the next time I do a day trip to the local range -- using my 8" X 11" targets --- at 100 yrds I'll take a few shots on center & a few at the top edge of the paper --- if I hit ( see ) anything --- I'm happy

P/S -- My next purchase will / might be either a SCCY CPX-2 or a Bersa TPR9C in 9MM -- if they cant hit the target --- I'll throw them
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