Using a timer.....for CCW practice

Nathan · January 5, 2015, 07:29 AM

So, I finally got a timer....

Considering CCW, what should I be doing it to get better? My plan now is to use the par time feature to draw and fire from concealment dry fire practice.

My live fire draw and fire was about 3s from IWB wearing a sweatshirt. Seems slow.

gschoelles · January 5, 2015, 08:02 AM

You want to be 1.5s or less

kraigwy · January 5, 2015, 09:25 AM

Just to give you an idea, I conduct a lady's firearms safety and self defense class for two hours a week.

After a few of these classes its not problem for these girls, (most who have had no training prior to the class) can draw and fire in under 1 sec. We strive to get it to .5 sec.

Its not hard really, its more the method of carry.

It takes about 3 seconds for a bandit to kick in the door during a home invasion. 3 seconds to react is too slow in my opinion.

And yes a timer is a valuable tool.

Two drills I use:

The first requires you to get a blue training gun that matches your carry gun.

DO NOT USE A REAL GUN.

Have your training partner face you, close, less then arms length. Have him extend his arms body width apart, elbows touching side, palms open. He has his hands ready to slap together.

When he sees you start to draw, he is to slap his hands together. You job is to draw and get the plastic training gun between the hands before the come together, where your partner slaps the gun.

Sounds hard but with a bit of practice it really isn't.

Again, DO NOT USE A REAL GUN for this exercise.

2nd Drill:

Both you and your range partner face your targets (separate targets). Have your partner point at his target, ready to shoot.

When your partner sees you start to draw, he is to fire. Your goal is to draw and fire before he fires.

Again sounds impossible but with a bit of practice you can pull it off.

A huge majority of SD shooting is at bad breath distance. Speed is critical.

If you cant successfully complete the two drills above, then you need to re-evaluate your method of carry.

g.willikers · January 5, 2015, 09:44 AM

Draw the gun, while taking a large sidestep, and then fire.
Draw the gun, while running to cover, with good hits from behind cover.
Use the timer to help steadily improve, rather than trying for a best time.

redhologram · January 5, 2015, 02:47 PM

I copied these from a thread I posted in a few weeks back. Standards we run through each time we are at the range. These are just helping you work on your proficiency which will translate into efficiency elsewhere.

Pistol standards drills.
(Ready = From Ready position & Holster = Draw from OWB holster, standing relaxed, then drawing after timer goes off)

1) Ready - 1 shot to center - On 1 target - From 7 yards - In 1 SEC
2) Holster - 1 shot to center - 1 target - 7 yds - 1.7 SEC
3) Ready - 2 shots (center) - 1 target - 7 yds - 1.5 SEC
4) Ready - 5 shots (center) then 1 shot (head) - 1 target - 7 yds - 3 SEC
5) Ready - 4 shots (2 on 1 target, 2 on next target beside) - 7 yds - 3 SEC
6) Ready - 4 shots (2x weak hand) / (2x strong hand) - 1 target - 7 yds - 5 SEC
For the next drill, unload your firearm, insert loaded mag, do not chamber
7) Ready - 1 shot -Malfunction drill (Tap, Rack, Bang) - 1 target - 7 yds - 3 SEC
For the next drill, load firearm with ONLY 2 rounds (1 in chamber). Have spare mag loaded and in holder, this is a reload drill.
8) Ready - 2 shots, Reload, 2 shots - 1 target - 7 yds - 5 SEC
*The last 2 drills either require a rifle to pistol transition or either out to 25 yds kneeling so I didn't include them.

**Frank Ettin** · January 5, 2015, 03:24 PM

At Gunsite, the qualification course includes the following -- starting with the gun holstered --

3 yards, single shot to the head, 1.5 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed twice
7 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 1.5 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once
10 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 2 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once
25 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 3.5 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once
35 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 7 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once

jmhyer · January 5, 2015, 06:41 PM

Keep in mind that most of the times referenced are either from a ready position or from holstered OWB. For CCW practice, you always want to begin from a holstered AND concealed position. Drawing from concealment (whether it be IWB with a cover garment, ankle holster, belly band, shoulder holster, etc.) will be slower. I do think the timer is useful, however, to track and ensure that, however fast or slow you are now, you just always want to get faster...and on target.

**Frank Ettin** · January 5, 2015, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmhyer

...Drawing from concealment (whether it be IWB with a cover garment, ankle holster, belly band, shoulder holster, etc.) will be slower....

I haven't found drawing from a strong-side, waist holster, whether OWB or IWB, concealed with an open-front cover garment (e. g., an open jacket or vest) to be appreciably slower than without the cover garment. Other types of concealment set ups will be a different matter, especial arrangements like an ankle holster or belly-band.

jmhyer · January 5, 2015, 08:51 PM

True enough, Frank. Simply put, my point was that you just wanna see ongoing improvement. Wherever you are now, you want to be better next week, and even better the week after...

**Frank Ettin** · January 5, 2015, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmhyer

...my point was that you just wanna see ongoing improvement. Wherever you are now, you want to be better next week, and even better the week after...

That is true. And that is why at least some practice with a timer and paper targets is important. You can't really know if you're showing improvement if you can measure your performance.

January 5, 2015, 07:29 AM	#1
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	Using a timer.....for CCW practice So, I finally got a timer.... Considering CCW, what should I be doing it to get better? My plan now is to use the par time feature to draw and fire from concealment dry fire practice. My live fire draw and fire was about 3s from IWB wearing a sweatshirt. Seems slow.

January 5, 2015, 08:02 AM	#2
gschoelles Junior Member Join Date: April 20, 2012 Posts: 14	You want to be 1.5s or less __________________ CRPA and NRA member GLOCK Armorer Remington 870 Armorer, Mossberg 5xx Armorer, 1911 Armorer M16/AR15 Armorer, Tactical First Aid Primary Responder NRA Range Safety Officer, Certified Pistol, Shotgun and Rifle Instructor

January 5, 2015, 09:25 AM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Just to give you an idea, I conduct a lady's firearms safety and self defense class for two hours a week. After a few of these classes its not problem for these girls, (most who have had no training prior to the class) can draw and fire in under 1 sec. We strive to get it to .5 sec. Its not hard really, its more the method of carry. It takes about 3 seconds for a bandit to kick in the door during a home invasion. 3 seconds to react is too slow in my opinion. And yes a timer is a valuable tool. Two drills I use: The first requires you to get a blue training gun that matches your carry gun. DO NOT USE A REAL GUN. Have your training partner face you, close, less then arms length. Have him extend his arms body width apart, elbows touching side, palms open. He has his hands ready to slap together. When he sees you start to draw, he is to slap his hands together. You job is to draw and get the plastic training gun between the hands before the come together, where your partner slaps the gun. Sounds hard but with a bit of practice it really isn't. Again, DO NOT USE A REAL GUN for this exercise. 2nd Drill: Both you and your range partner face your targets (separate targets). Have your partner point at his target, ready to shoot. When your partner sees you start to draw, he is to fire. Your goal is to draw and fire before he fires. Again sounds impossible but with a bit of practice you can pull it off. A huge majority of SD shooting is at bad breath distance. Speed is critical. If you cant successfully complete the two drills above, then you need to re-evaluate your method of carry. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071 Last edited by kraigwy; January 5, 2015 at 09:37 AM.

January 5, 2015, 09:44 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Draw the gun, while taking a large sidestep, and then fire. Draw the gun, while running to cover, with good hits from behind cover. Use the timer to help steadily improve, rather than trying for a best time. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 5, 2015, 03:24 PM	#6
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	At Gunsite, the qualification course includes the following -- starting with the gun holstered -- 3 yards, single shot to the head, 1.5 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed twice 7 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 1.5 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once 10 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 2 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once 25 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 3.5 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once 35 yards, two rounds to center of mass, 7 seconds (movement, a step to the left or to the right, is added for the intermediate course), performed once __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

January 5, 2015, 02:47 PM	#5
redhologram Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2013 Posts: 352	I copied these from a thread I posted in a few weeks back. Standards we run through each time we are at the range. These are just helping you work on your proficiency which will translate into efficiency elsewhere. Pistol standards drills. (Ready = From Ready position & Holster = Draw from OWB holster, standing relaxed, then drawing after timer goes off) 1) Ready - 1 shot to center - On 1 target - From 7 yards - In 1 SEC 2) Holster - 1 shot to center - 1 target - 7 yds - 1.7 SEC 3) Ready - 2 shots (center) - 1 target - 7 yds - 1.5 SEC 4) Ready - 5 shots (center) then 1 shot (head) - 1 target - 7 yds - 3 SEC 5) Ready - 4 shots (2 on 1 target, 2 on next target beside) - 7 yds - 3 SEC 6) Ready - 4 shots (2x weak hand) / (2x strong hand) - 1 target - 7 yds - 5 SEC For the next drill, unload your firearm, insert loaded mag, do not chamber 7) Ready - 1 shot -Malfunction drill (Tap, Rack, Bang) - 1 target - 7 yds - 3 SEC For the next drill, load firearm with ONLY 2 rounds (1 in chamber). Have spare mag loaded and in holder, this is a reload drill. 8) Ready - 2 shots, Reload, 2 shots - 1 target - 7 yds - 5 SEC *The last 2 drills either require a rifle to pistol transition or either out to 25 yds kneeling so I didn't include them.

January 5, 2015, 06:41 PM	#7
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	Keep in mind that most of the times referenced are either from a ready position or from holstered OWB. For CCW practice, you always want to begin from a holstered AND concealed position. Drawing from concealment (whether it be IWB with a cover garment, ankle holster, belly band, shoulder holster, etc.) will be slower. I do think the timer is useful, however, to track and ensure that, however fast or slow you are now, you just always want to get faster...and on target.

January 5, 2015, 08:51 PM	#9
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	True enough, Frank. Simply put, my point was that you just wanna see ongoing improvement. Wherever you are now, you want to be better next week, and even better the week after...