Carry at the bar?

[7.62 man]

I carry when I go into my local sports bar.
I figure it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I don't drink more the 2 or 3 beers with food.
This place is more restaurant than bar anyway but it does have a few rough looking biker types that come in from time to time.
I sure don't want to die from a shootout that one of them started, so I protect myself & other friends at my table.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Because most of those places simply say "BAR" on the outside...........

Around me they do not. Most places in my town that are bars don't have some big sign on them saying "BAR". I guess they assume that since practically everyone can sell alcohol that kind of signage would be pretty redundant. Every restaurant I can think of that I frequent has a bar area. Even if I am not sitting there someone could argue, "Well you went to a bar."

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[T. O'Heir]

"...having alcohol on your breath..." That'd give a cop a reason to make you take a breath test.
I thought it was evil to carry in any bar or is that another "Depends on where you are." thing?
"...21st birthdays....04 or .05, I'm not sure..." That does depend on where you are. Drinking age was 18, up here, from 1972 to 1979 when it went up to 19(probably due to drunk kids in high school). You're considered impaired at .05, but it becomes a criminal offence at .08.
"...Won't stop the criminals..." They don't bother getting a CCW permit in the first place.

[44 AMP]

In my state, no one but ON DUTY law enforcement officers can legally carry in a bar. Period. The bars are posted, by law. They can lose their license if they don't have the required signage.

You can carry in a place like Dennys but not in the bar/lounge section.

Forget any arguments about the legal limits for DRIVING, carrying a gun is not driving. it may matter if you are found in possession, (when not in a bar), but any alcohol in your system (even one measly little beer) will hang you if you have to USE the gun. Why? because while not specified in LAW as "impaired" you ARE impaired in the eyes of the public (and the jury).

Your motor skills may not be measurably impaired, but you judgement IS. (for which there is no test) and while you might not think so, what you think doesn't matter.

Some time back there was a guy who had a couple glasses of wine IN HIS HOME. Bad guy broke in, He had to use a gun. What should have been quickly ruled a "good shoot" turned into a long drawn out EXPENSIVE legal battle, because the prosecution contended that while he was not legally intoxicated, his judgement WAS impaired. (they claimed he shot when he did not HAVE to shoot, because the wine impaired his judgement)

Don't carry in a bar, even if it is legal. If you're going out, armed, don't drink at all. Not even one little beer or glass of wine. None.

[HiBC]

If we apply some rational choicemaking, per the OP,

On one side,we are talking about the importance of one beer. Maybe what we WANT is a beer. But maybe what we NEED is just something to drink with our chicken wings. An iced tea,lemonade,water, Dr Pepper might meet the NEED.

As far as the quality of your evening with your Wife or with your buddies..how much difference does one beer make,assuming everything goes right?

With the beer,the evening is maybe a 9.5,without the beer its a 9.0

Generally,it SHOULD be "small beer". If its a whole lot more important, If I've just "Got to have a beer"...…..Odds are that one beer promise won't hold up,

Because there is already an implied promise not to mix gun and alcohol.

Cross that line for one beer, what do you do when your buddy buys you a shot? IMO,its easier to keep the line strong,don't cross it.

That does not mean I can't go out for a couple of beers. I just compromise being armed. I leave the gun at home. If its a rough bar,not ging there is wiser than going armed.

So far,we are talking about a good night,where nothing goes wrong.

But now,what if something DOES go wrong? You print and somebody tells the bartender "I think that guy has a gun". Someone drunk is extremely rude to your Wife. Or any other reason to have LEO contact.

The LEO asks " Have you had ANYTHING to drink.?"

Now how important s that one beer? On a one to ten scale? It might be a 9.8 for regrettable.

As Yogi Berra said,"When you come to a fork in the road,take it"

Its OK to be drivig on the interstate. Its OK to take the off ramp. Continuing down the interstate AND taking the off ramp can hurt.

Choice making is an important skill

[riffraff]

Where I live, no such law prohibits, one place I used to frequent and will show up at from time to time didn't even stop people from open carry - now they have a "no weapons" sign (maybe after some guy shot himself in the leg outside, or maybe because of biker gang crap) but here it carries no legal weight it's just saying if they see it you need to leave basically (just like the "no MC colors" sign).

Have I carried in the bar - yes, stopping in for a drink or two when I was already carrying. If I'm going there to be drinking all night, no, hell no - have 0 problems with drinking, not a "drunk", "problem drinker", "violent" - etc.. etc.. - but I say if you are going to make your judgement all cloudy you are better off keeping the options simple, ie not being armed.

[bamaranger]

Carrying a firearm in public is a tremendous responsibility, demanding all the perception and rationality one possess's. Clouding that level of awareness by consuming alcohol, in any degree, is asking for trouble. As somebody stated, alcohol and gunpowder do not mix. If you are involved in a shooting incident, and you've been drinking, regardless of the amount, you are in for a hard time on the legal side of things, criminal and civil.

One of your options while armed (or not, really) is avoidance. When possible, one avoids places that constitute an enhanced level of threat. Stay out of the bad parts of town, stay in lit areas, etc. One of the effects of alcohol is reducing inhibitions. People can do stupid things when drinking and make bad choices, and trouble results. Thus, a bar is one of those places one should avoid when armed. If a locale draws rough folks, then that is a locale one should avoid. You're in a public place and trouble makers show up, you leave. If a locale is frequented by troublemaker types, you don't go there.

We don't arm ourselves and then go looking for trouble, we are armed for when trouble comes looking for us.

[adamBomb]

If I am carrying, I won't drink. Even if its allowed by law - just imagine you having to use your weapon in self defense and it comes out you were drinking? Its going to make your case a lot less black and white, that's for sure.

[Naro]

+1
In our state if you have a Handgun Carry Permit you may carry a concealed weapon into an establishment that serves alcohol as long as you are not consuming any alcohol. A violation of this law is a Class A misdemeanor and your permit will be suspended for a period of three years. ANY ALCOHOL....

[Tommyb78]

It’s just not a good idea to carry where people are impaired. Always a chance of someone with poor judgement to do something stupid. If you feel compelled to carry at a bar, you should find a different place to enjoy some beverages ������

[FireForged]

exactly..


I am not a gun-centric person and the "gun" is not the center of my universe whereby all things must orbit. I have never in my life, carried in a bar. The genesis of such a practice is based purely on common sense and prudence.

I have trekked all across this planet without a gun. I think for the sake of generous prudence, I can manage to patron a bar without one.

self defense is hardly limited to what people can or cant do with a gun and most criminal entanglements do not appear or develop out of thin air. If you cant lean on a gun to solve your problems you might want to lean on an abundance of caution and good sense.

To the people who feel that being unarmed from time to time is such big deal. I ask them what protection do they employ against being struck by lighting? They still go outside don't they? Its mostly common sense.. right?

[FITASC]

Since I am an ex-smoker and cannot STAND the whiff of cigarette smoke, not going to a bar is a no brainer for me, where, in Florida, you are not allowed to carry anyway. That said, going to a restaurant and having dinner with a glass of wine, I have no issues with. If I am going to seriously imbibe, I'll do that at home.
Everyone's physical make-up is different; some folks can handle several drink and be perfectly fine; others get stupid after one drink. Know YOUR limitations and YOUR laws and go accordingly.

[Satchmoeddie]

Many states prohibit firearms in any establishment that sells alcohol in any capacity. It gets really pretty fuzzy in states where grocery stores can sell package liquor. Usually beer and wine are not as much of an issue because of the licensing requirements for selling beers and wines versus liquor, and spirits licensing requirements. Bars? That is running some very serious risks. People do really super stupid things under the influence of alcohol. I sure as heck wouldn't open carry in a bar lest I become a gun dispenser for some angry drunk. If I am carrying in a bar, you can bet it is very well concealed and I darn well mind my own business. I also do not drink alcohol. I am weary from playing "Take Away The Car Keys" and "Put Away the Knife" with drunken idiots. As a musician I was often one of the last people to leave a bar, and usually the most sober. I used to take the slide off my pistol, chain the frame to the car, and just take the slide into the bar. I carried European made guns, which have 3 serial numbers on them, one on the frame, one on the slide, and one on the barrel. To the ATF the frame of the gun is THE GUN.

[paknheat]

If you’re carrying, just stay outta beer joints


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[langenc]

If you are going to have a beer....have two! But don't pack.
from #9--

have two and dont DRIVE either.

[rodfac]

AMP 44:

Don't carry in a bar, even if it is legal. If you're going out, armed, don't drink at all. Not even one little beer or glass of wine. None.

FireForged:

...most criminal entanglements do not appear or develop out of thin air. If you cant lean on a gun to solve your problems you might want to lean on an abundance of caution and good sense.

Well said...and about covers the subject from my point of view...Rod

[Don P]

I carry when I go into my local sports bar.
I figure it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I don't drink more the 2 or 3 beers with food.
This place is more restaurant than bar anyway but it does have a few rough looking biker types that come in from time to time.
I sure don't want to die from a shootout that one of them started, so I protect myself & other friends at my table.

Seriously?? I'm a "BIKER" and I carry. The last thing you would have to worry about is a shootout. More than likely you would get a serious ass-whoopen.
Just lovely the way the ignorant want to stereo type people.
To your 2-3 beers. That will not fly well in a supposedly SD shooting. Impaired thought, motor skill come to mind Someone of a sober mind very well would have not pulled the trigger. That would be one hell of an uphill battle in court.
If the term ignorant bothers you then gain some knowledge about "BIKERS."
I, we "BIKERS" don't go out looking for trouble. I have been in many a bar and many an outing with 1%'ers present and the problems come from the drunks that think they are tough. IMHO refrain from drinking while carrying.

[Brit]

I was born in a Pub in England, as a little kid, stoked shelves, dusted bottles, made sure all labels faced the front! My first confrontation, I was 15 YOA.
Came home from the movies (Pictures) The Grapes Hotel. St Helens Lancashire.

A door from the Street led to a long skinny passage, to the Ladies Snug. On the other side of one wall was the Bar. Coming from that room, a loud Irish voice!
And my Dad replying, quiet and reasonable. I continued across the snug, into the outside yard, picked up a quart bottle of Lemonade, a bar cloth, and headed back to the street. Carefully wrapping the cloth around the sharp bottle cap. To protect my hand.

Carefully peeped through the embossed window, I could see the large broad back of the customer, arguing with my Dad. Who was in the bar, on the other side, you never go over the Bar, ever! My 5'6" tall Dad, who weighed in at about 160 lbs. The most gentle man you could ever wish to meet.

Me, even at 15, not so much! Slipped into the bar, very quietly, gently crept up behind the Irishman. Holding the bottle, elbow cocked, quivering like a dog SXXXXXX razor blades. My Dad stealing glances over the Customers shoulder.

The Irish Man suddenly twigged on the change in the atmospherics and gave a quick peep over his shoulder. "Who is that?" My Son said, my Dad.
"And phat is he going to do?" My Dad just looked puzzled and said he had no idea. I just knew if he made a move towards my Dad, I was going to crush his skull.

In a very low, reasonable voice the Customer spoke to me as you would just speak to a grungy Pit Bull, quietly. "Me and your Dad was just having a Chat Son." He left, very slowly. He did slam the door and break the glass, but came back the next day to pay for it!

Living in a Pub till I went to do my National Service, 2 years. I did not start drinking until then. Now at 84, I have one glass of Merlot on our night out, every two weeks, with neighbours down the street, the two Ladies have two!

My Glock 19 Gen 4, concealed, TruGlo night sights, 4 lb trigger, clean as a whistle. The car park, not the best lit one. I pick up the Jeep, and go back to the entrance, to pick all 3 up. That meal takes an hour to consume, a very good night out. All 3 give me the seat facing the door, paranoid? Just a bit.

[hubris]

Just decided from the start, if carrying I don't drink. In my state you can carry in the bar area, but may not consume alcohol at all. I just expand that to the whole establishment

[pete2]

Not legal to carry in a bar in Texas. Guns and booze are not a good mix.

[357 Python]

Lets see, you are the designated driver going out with the boys to a bar and carrying a gun right? With the old adage that alcohol and guns don't mix the answer should be easy. Get rid of the gun or get rid of the alcohol. In other words don't drink alcohol, have a soda or something else. It may not be what you want to hear but it will keep you out of the hospital and possibly jail.

[davidsog]

Gun to a bar??

Great way to introduce lethal outcomes where none existed beforehand.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by davidsog

Gun to a bar??



Great way to introduce lethal outcomes where none existed beforehand.

None existed beforehand? I'm well aware that the presence of a firearm can elevate the threat and escalate situations that may have been minor. At the same time, at a bar in my state two patrons got into a fist fight outside. One took a blow to the head, fell on the sidewalk the right way, and died from the head trauma he received. The bar subsequently lost its license and was sued for overserving. Lethal outcomes can certainly exist without the presence of a firearm.

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[BigBL87]

In Illinois it's illegal to carry in an establishment if over 50% of their sales are alcohol, so for some places the decision is made for me. It is the responsibility of the establishment to post the proper sign if they fall under that, so if there is no sign I go ahead and carry.

I'm not a teetotaler, but with very few exceptions I only drink at home so I'm carrying when I'm out and about even if the plan is to go to a bar at some point. My decision not to drink is primarily based on the fact that I do carry, though I don't drink much in general anyway. I've only been even moderately "drunk" twice in my life, just doesn't appeal much to me.

[FITASC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Gun to a bar??



Great way to introduce lethal outcomes where none existed beforehand.
None existed beforehand? I'm well aware that the presence of a firearm can elevate the threat and escalate situations that may have been minor. At the same time, at a bar in my state two patrons got into a fist fight outside. One took a blow to the head, fell on the sidewalk the right way, and died from the head trauma he received. The bar subsequently lost its license and was sued for overserving. Lethal outcomes can certainly exist without the presence of a firearm.

Absolutely................. When I lived in the Houston area in the late 70s, stopped at the local "ice house" on the way home from the refinery were we converting. Two guys decided to mix it up and they were told to leave. One guy leaves, gets his 1911 and stays outside dumping the full mag into the other guy's limited edition Corvette; then simply got in his car and drove away................

Had they been carrying in the bar, who knows what might have happened. Of course the sweet old lady behind the bar and a SBS behind the bar as well as her own 1911; she was ready and not afraid to use either one.................