1911 double tapping?

[Joe-ker]

Hey guys. A while back my 1911(Dan Wesson .45) double tapped on me on the last few rounds. I took the firing pin out thinking it might be dirty but no looked just fine. I put it away and kinda forgot about it until I fired it yesterday. Every time it fired off two rounds-except one time it didn't strike the primer hard enough. Once again I disassembled and the firing pin and spring were perfectly clean. I added a few drops of oil and reassembled. I only shot one mag and so far worked fine. Is this a common occurrence if the firing pin/spring gets too dry?

[RickB]

By "double tap", you mean the gun is firing twice with a single pull of the trigger?

That's often evidence of an adjustable trigger overtravel screw having unadjusted itself.
It can also be due to insufficient pressure being applied to trigger or sear by the sear spring.
It can also be due to a problem with the hammer/sear engagement.

Very unlikely that the firing pin or its spring is playing any part in your problem.

[gglass]

• It can also be due to insufficient pressure being applied to trigger or sear by the sear spring.
• It can also be due to a problem with the hammer/sear engagement.

These are the first two areas to investigate... By CZ of course. Send it in sooner rather than later.

[g.willikers]

Yeah, it would seem that if the firing pin was at fault, the gun would go full auto until it ran out of ammo.

[BigJimP]

If the firing pin spring ...were overly dry ...which is hard to imagine...then the gun would probably not fire or you would have a bunch of light strikes or fail to fires because something was binding.

But the spring is there ...to return the firing pin to its neutral position - after the gun is fired.

A gun "doubling" or firing twice ...is not the same as a "double tap".../ a "double tap" refers to an intentional firing of 2 shots by the shooter ( pulling the trigger twice ) and putting 2 rounds on target..not a malfunction.

Your gun needs to be looked at by a competent gunsmith in my view / as mentioned above, it could be a number of things causing the gun to double. A gun doubling can also be a shooter error...firing the 2nd round unintentionally as the gun recoils and not realizing it..

[Joe-ker]

Doubling would be the correct term as I fired two for one pull of the trigger. And I am certain I only pulled once. The gun has easily had less than 500 rds through it. I had it apart last night and the sear as well as the hammer looked fine. I will have to do some more investigating. Thanks

[Erno86]

I'm speculating that there is a slight possibility that you bump fired the 1911?

[RickB]

If the firing pin spring ...were overly dry ...

No need for lube, and it would only serve to attract and accumulate more junk on the pin and in the tunnel.
You don't want rust, either, but no need to apply any more lube/protection than you do to the outside of the gun.

[Martowski]

Call Dan Wesson today; they should send you a label to have it shipped back to them. From what I hear on the 1911forum they have pretty good customer service.

Don't mess around with this and try to trouble shoot it yourself if it's an unmodified pistol; get it back to them ASAP.

[Joe-ker]

.

But the spring is there ...to return the firing pin to its neutral position - after the gun is fired.

I'm definitely not as knowledgable as all of you, so bear with me as I'm just hoping to learn, but I have to ask, if say the pin were to stick- not return to neutral- wouldn't it cause this? And the second shot causes it to un stick and return to normal? I realize the number of times mine has done this makes it unlikely but I'm all about hypotheticals

[Dufus]

I have seen and witnessed a faulty trigger finger cause this malady with 1911s.

[RickB]

But the spring is there ...to return the firing pin to its neutral position - after the gun is fired.

I'm definitely not as knowledgable as all of you, so bear with me as I'm just hoping to learn, but I have to ask, if say the pin were to stick- not return to neutral- wouldn't it cause this? And the second shot causes it to un stick and return to normal? I realize the number of times mine has done this makes it unlikely but I'm all about hypotheticals

If the pin is stuck forward, the gun won't feed
As the slide moves forward and starts to pick up the round from the mag, the case rim slides up the breechface and behind the extractor hook; if the firing pin is protruding from the breechface, the rim will hit it and stop the proceeding, right there.

If the gun were push-feeding, or inertia feeding, the round getting out ahead of the extractor, then it could happen, but I'd put that possibility - slam fire - way, way down the list of likely problems.

[Joe-ker]

Thanks for clearing that up, RickB

[Aguila Blanca]

Do you know enough about the inner workings of a 1911 to check if the disconnector is free to move up and down in its bore?

Do you have a trigger pull scale? If so, what's the trigger pull?

[Joe-ker]

Yes. I completely disassembled. Things looked fine. I cleaned, added a drop of oil to sear/disconnect assembly and reassembled. Fired two mags worth through and performed perfectly. I do not have a pull scale so I can't help you with that.

[xcc_rider]

Not the op's issue and not trying to be contrary but back in the 70's we would shoot mil surplus 45acp (Thompson mg ammo) in our 1911's and I has several slam fire\full mag sessions with it. Stronger springs didn't help, the ammo was just too powerful for my Commander.
The firing pin was jammed forward due to the recoil displacing the firing pin retainer and fed a mag full of ammo without any cases jamming on the pin.
Added a set screw to the firing pin retainer to keep it from jamming the pin forward and it solved the issue until we used up our bulk supply.

Continuing to use the surplus ammo probably wasn't the smartest thing to do but a full auto 45 is a hoot and the Commander still functions flawlessly to this day.

I now return you to the op thread.

[RickB]

I have WWII-vintage manuals for the M1911 auto, M1917 revolvers, and Thompson, and there's no mention of special subgun ammo.

A displaced firing pin stop would hold the firing pin in a forward position, but that alone might not explain your experience.

[Slamfire]

I am going to offer the possibility of a worn trigger sear or hammer sear. I have been disappointed in the lifetime of MIM 1911 trigger parts and have had three Kimber hammers wear out and a sear. I had the sear replaced with a forged sear, should have replaced the hammer with a forged hammer. The hammer will follow the slide, it could also trip causing a "double"

In my opinion, your pistol is out of mechanical tolerance, it is dangerous and needs to be fixed before you shoot your eye out.

[T. O'Heir]

"...fired two for one pull of the trigger..." Is caused by the operator failing to follow through on the shot. As in releasing the trigger too soon and inadvertently pulling the trigger again(just like with an M1A). Or the sear is worn or broken. Far more likely to be the former since you did not mention finding any broken parts.
"...full auto until it ran out of ammo..." Broken firing pin or sear will do that. However, the ammo can cause a semi-auto go FA too. Knew a guy who had a semi'd Uzi that would go FA with light cast bullet loads.
"...special sub-gun ammo..." No such thing. Another of many myths that actually predate the internet.

[reddog81]

I'd have a gunsmith look at it. Unless you're very well versed in the internals of a 1911 there is no way you will be able to just look at the sear or hammer and tell if the angle is off or worn past it's useful life.

On a side note how could too strong of ammo cause a gun to go full auto? The recoil spring is going to have the same amount of energy to return the gun into battery whether you use regular or heavy ammo. On a 1911 once the slide moves half an inch the hammer is completely removed from possibly touching the firing pin and the firing pin spring will return the firing pin to it's normal resting point and it will remain there until the hammer hits it again.

[RickB]

Heavy ammo could cause inertia feeding, which would explain how a round could get into the chamber ahead of an extended firing pin.
The barrel/slide can't lock-up on an extended pin, the extractor can't grab the case rim if there's an extended pin, an extended pin would prevent the case from contacting the ejector, but, never say never.

The Thompson SMG had a fixed firing pin extending from the front of the bolt, and it worked, but it worked on a very different operating principle from the 1911.

[DaleA]

The Thompson SMG had a fixed firing pin extending from the front of the bolt

Disclaimer: I do not own a Thompson and have only shot one once.

I know the 'grease gun' M3 just has a fixed nub on the front of the bolt that acts as the firing pin but I thought the Thompson had a moveable firing pin.

[tallball]

The original commercial Thompson and the eventual US military Thompson were very different creatures.

[DaleA]

Tallball speaks the truth. Some had fixed firing pins and some had moveable firing pins.

The main difference between the M1 and M1A1 [Thompson] was the bolt. The M1 bolt had a floating firing pin and hammer, the bolt of the M1A1 had the firing pin machined to the face of the bolt, eliminating unnecessary parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomps...n#World_War_II

Thanks for the prod to go look something up rather than just to rely on memory.

[RickB]

I could have been more specific, as in, "late, military Thompson's had . . .", but it wasn't really relevant to the discussion.