How can people still be this stupid?

jimpeel · November 3, 2014, 08:35 AM

It seems that the TSA is busy confiscating firearms at an increasing rate from people trying to carry them onto aircraft. In October alone they confiscated 181 firearms from carry-on baggage. Of those 181 firearms 157 were loaded and about a third of those also had a chambered round.

With all of the publicity and uproar about the TSA, how is it that people are still this stupid considering the number of years the TSA has been in operation at airports? Firearms ownership is a pretty big responsibility yet here we are with all of these dunderheads trying to take them onto aircraft in their carry-on baggage.

Do we need people at the secure area gate, or recorded voices, stating "If you have a firearm in any of your bags, you need to exit this line and take care of the problem you are about to have enter your life. The TSA will find the firearm; you will be arrested; you will lose your firearm; you will miss your flight; and your ticket will not be refunded."?

SOURCE

Colt46 · November 3, 2014, 11:17 AM

Forget your wallet?
These Heinous 'crimes' which require no malice in the minds of the perpetrators serves what purpose for the overall good of society?

FlyFish · November 3, 2014, 11:50 AM

According to US DOT, about 650 million passengers board domestic flights every year, out of 800 million total, on US carriers. Presumably half of the 150 million flights difference are outbound flights and of course there are also foreign carriers with flights boarding at US airports that aren't included in the original total, so let's use the 800 million as a reasonable ballpark of the total number of passengers screened by TSA every year. That's equivalent to about 67 million per month.

Now of course all of them aren't potential firearm-in-carryon-luggage boneheads because they don't all own firearms. Gun ownership in US households is at about 40%, depending on whose numbers you believe, so that would mean about 27 million people from gun-owning households boarding flights every month. The 181 in October, then, represents about 0.0007% (7 ten-thousandths of a percent) of that number, so really not very many, but it's still a number that leaves you shaking your head.

carguychris · November 3, 2014, 11:56 AM

^^^ I'd be curious to know the relative rate of firearms confiscations versus other classes of contraband.

BobCat45 · November 3, 2014, 12:21 PM

Impossible to know this, but I'd be interested in what percent they catch versus those that slip through.

Early in the days of TSA there was a "scandal" at O'Hare airport in Chicago, when a "newsperson" publicized slipping a revolver through screening. I doubt they catch all the guns in carry-on bags.

**Tom Servo** · November 3, 2014, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Impossible to know this, but I'd be interested in what percent they catch versus those that slip through.

The system is more porous and disorganized than they'd have us believe.

Last March, I flew from Atlanta to New York. The lady in front of me got stopped after passing through the body scanner. They made a big deal out of swabbing her hands for "chemical residue." I'd been shooting that morning and surely had some GSR on my hands. Yet they waved me through.

When I stopped in Baltimore, the fancy body scanners were out of order, so we were marched through 1980's metal detectors. Huh.

On the way out of McArthur, the body scanners picked up the pins in my hip, something that had been missed at both ATL and BWI. Go figure.

BobCat45 · November 3, 2014, 01:25 PM

Tom, that adds credibility to the idea that much of the "security" activity is theater, intended to dissuade people from bringing bombs or such on airplanes, but not nearly as good at actually spotting such things as the public is lead to believe.

Skans · November 3, 2014, 02:42 PM

People who accidentally leave a firearm in a bag, purse, briefcase, etc. and plop it down on the conveyor belt to be X-rayed are not the problem. Obviously they forgot about it and obviously they aren't trying to slip anything past security.

We are conditioned to keep our carry guns either on us or somewhere where children aren't likely to get to it. Someone might have put one carry gun in a secured computer bag, leave one at home in a safe and mentally think "my guns are secured", forgetting that they have one in something they intend on bringing onto an airplane. Is this careless? Maybe. Should the person who forgets a gun in his/her carry-on miss the flight, be detained, be required to purchase a new ticket and pay a fine? Probably. Should the gun be confiscated? No. Should such a person be made a criminal? No.

Onward Allusion · November 3, 2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:

How can people still be this stupid?

Easy. Stupid people are everywhere. Sometimes it's oneself. Other times, it's the other guy. These people shouldn't have their lives ruined for something that hurt no one. An expensive fine, sure. But criminal record. Now, THAT's stupid.

cjwils · November 3, 2014, 08:32 PM

If you carry something with you all the time, it is not stupid to forget that you have it, although it certainly helps if you stop and think before boarding a plane. I have carried a pocket knife almost everyday since I was about 8 years old. More than once in recent years I have been on the verge of going through airport security with a knife in my pocket, when I have remembered my knife at the last minute. I have had to go into the men's room and dump my knife in the trash. I don't carry a gun all the time, so I would probably remember if I had a gun, but I can understand that a person who carries a gun all the time might forget.

jimpeel · November 4, 2014, 03:01 AM

Rather than dumping the knife in the trash I would simply give it to someone who is leaving the airport. It is better that someone get some use out of it than either the TSA selling it at one of their warehouses or it going to the dump.

My F-I-L carried a Case knife his dad gave him when he was eight-years-old. That would have been in 1936. He made the mistake of getting on a plane with it and it was confiscated. It is hard to go back out and use the mailing service to mail it to yourself when you are in a wheelchair for early boarding.

It still galls me that the TSA sells the stuff they confiscate after they have cherry-picked it for the good stuff.

Doogle · November 4, 2014, 09:29 AM

...I would have to question their dedication to firearms safety. Keeping control of firearms is a major part of that.

Also, I have to think that when intending to fly on a commercial airline I'd at least have to consider this question, "Do I have any firearms on me or in my luggage"? To be surprised to find that one is without me realising it should concern me greatly. To be that blase about carrying a weapon is likely to lead to problems. Some seem to believe that it's OK to lose track of a firearm or two now & then. Heck, we all misplace things, right? Well, no, I don't misplace my firearms. Never have, strongly doubt I ever will, and I don't consider that to be exceptional behaviour. These aren't pens, or watches, or whatever - they are firearms for goodness sake.

I'm not overly concerned about the penalties applied. I'd be much more concerned that people can do this and what it indicates about their attitude toward firearms.

zach_ · November 4, 2014, 10:45 AM

These same people probably do not secure their guns at home, or in their vehicle when it is necessary to leave their gun in the car. They should get a heavy fine, full probation for a year or so, misdemeanor offense I would think. Barry Switzer did it.

Skans · November 4, 2014, 12:04 PM

Zach, so do you also believe that people who do not secure their guns at home should also get a "heavy fine, full probation for a year or so, misdemeanor offense" also? Is that what you are advocating?

Why should the government, you, or anyone be involved in where my guns are in my own home?

cohoskip · November 4, 2014, 03:27 PM

I once forgot my knife was in my pocket. It was found, of course, and I had to exit and use their mail service to send it home. It cost me $12.00 postage (what a racket!) but it is a $50. knife, so I had to do it. Then they wanted me to stand in line again. I just went to the head of the line...

KyJim · November 5, 2014, 03:26 PM

I've related this story before but many years ago (before TSA) I had a client who flew in to visit his parents. Dad had terminal cancer and Mom asked son to take possession of a pistol to prevent Dad from using it on himself. He hid it in his suitcase. He had a lot to think about and forgot about it until security found it at the airport. The feds investigated and turned it over to local authorities who charged him with carrying a concealed deadly weapon. He paid a $100 fine.

So, it does happen and it's not all "stupid" people. But, still, I'm betting that the majority of those 181 confiscated firearms did belong to stupid people.

zach_ · November 5, 2014, 07:27 PM

Skans, I think if there are minors, or mentally ill people in the home, the guns should be secured. The owner of a firearm should have reasonable accountability for the gun. JMO.

longknife12 · November 5, 2014, 08:32 PM

A couple of years back, went from Denver to Dallas, after 4th body scan, dude asked me to tell him what the 4 dots were that were showing up......
asked if he knew Levi pockets had rivets......Next day, coming back, DFW never said a word........same pants.I had left pocket knife in Jimmy.Carry gun was locked under hood.
Dan

zach_ · November 5, 2014, 08:48 PM

Manchester NH. Going through security. Several cops and suits show up after I go through the scanner. Complete search of me, my carry on, wallet, shoes, belt, shorts, socks..... They said I had nitrates all over me. I had no idea how the nitrates were there, after they explained what nitrates were, when put on the spot. After thinking about it, we had been smoking out ground hogs 2 nights before. I had on the same jacket and shoes. The rest of the family flew out later that day. No hassle whatsoever.

TXAZ · November 5, 2014, 08:54 PM

There are some that believe they can't bring it on a plane but their luggage is ok. Not making excuses, but it's not uncommon for those that don't fly much.

As for CHL'ing, some people are so comfortable with their weapon they forget they have it. No excuse, but .... it happens virtually every week in Phoenix, where people have their gun on them and don't remember it until Beep beep beep.

Those that are remorseful are turned over to the Phx PD, who usually gives the well behaved ones a chance to go put it in their car, or just go home.

No excuses, but it's pretty common.

On the other hand, in New Jersey...........

Hook686 · November 6, 2014, 04:05 AM

Quote:

I just went to the head of the line...

You are lucky someone did not shoot you.

zach_ · November 6, 2014, 07:07 AM

It would be hard to tell the people who are a threat from the people that had a brain dohh........ People that don't fit the profile would just get a slap on the wrist?? That would create a poop storm.

Unlicensed Dremel · November 7, 2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Forget your wallet?
These Heinous 'crimes' which require no malice in the minds of the perpetrators serves what purpose for the overall good of society?

Exactly. 2 years ago, I unknowingly had a Tanfoglio Witness 10mm mag (empty) at the bottom of my Maxpedition man-purse-thing, and went through security. They didn't arrest me, but I had to call someone to come to the airport to give it to them before going back through again (or check it, which I couldn't do because I'd already done checked my bags).

If it had been a full mag, would they have arrested me? I don't know, but if the answer is yes they would have, then I'd have been madder than a hornet, because well, obviously a loaded mag is just simply NOT a weapon, in an way shape form or fashion. A tiny knife is more deadly than a loaded mag with no gun.

skoro · November 8, 2014, 08:26 AM

Mostly because there's no cure.

Ignorance? That can be addressed.

Brit · November 8, 2014, 12:04 PM

Strange things happen! A few years ago, whilst living in Toronto, my Wife and I were going to a IALEFI ATC, just think Seminar!

The wand picked up something in the bottom of my vest? There was a hole in the right hand side pocket, wasn't a new vest!

So much fiddling, popped a 9mm hardball back through the hole, uproar!
One of the RCMP Officers were called. With a flourish, this dangerous piece of ordnance was passed over.

The Mountie said what is your job Mike (Yes he used my first name) "I am a firearms Instructor".

I told him it will not fit in his Mod 65 S&W Revolver. He smiled, dropped it in his pocket, "Have a safe trip"

The Security? Chap was incensed, I think he wanted me arrested!

Same Airport Toronto, rushing to catch a flight, did not have time to clean my teeth, through security, waiting for flight to be called, off to washroom, used the facilities, cleaned teeth. WOW, $120.00 4" non serrated Benchmade access lock, in same folder. It was all in my backpack, I mailed it home, before I came back.

November 3, 2014, 08:35 AM	#1
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	How can people still be this stupid? It seems that the TSA is busy confiscating firearms at an increasing rate from people trying to carry them onto aircraft. In October alone they confiscated 181 firearms from carry-on baggage. Of those 181 firearms 157 were loaded and about a third of those also had a chambered round. With all of the publicity and uproar about the TSA, how is it that people are still this stupid considering the number of years the TSA has been in operation at airports? Firearms ownership is a pretty big responsibility yet here we are with all of these dunderheads trying to take them onto aircraft in their carry-on baggage. Do we need people at the secure area gate, or recorded voices, stating "If you have a firearm in any of your bags, you need to exit this line and take care of the problem you are about to have enter your life. The TSA will find the firearm; you will be arrested; you will lose your firearm; you will miss your flight; and your ticket will not be refunded."? SOURCE __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

November 3, 2014, 11:17 AM	#2
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	Ever misplace your keys? Forget your wallet? These Heinous 'crimes' which require no malice in the minds of the perpetrators serves what purpose for the overall good of society?

November 3, 2014, 11:50 AM	#3
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	According to US DOT, about 650 million passengers board domestic flights every year, out of 800 million total, on US carriers. Presumably half of the 150 million flights difference are outbound flights and of course there are also foreign carriers with flights boarding at US airports that aren't included in the original total, so let's use the 800 million as a reasonable ballpark of the total number of passengers screened by TSA every year. That's equivalent to about 67 million per month. Now of course all of them aren't potential firearm-in-carryon-luggage boneheads because they don't all own firearms. Gun ownership in US households is at about 40%, depending on whose numbers you believe, so that would mean about 27 million people from gun-owning households boarding flights every month. The 181 in October, then, represents about 0.0007% (7 ten-thousandths of a percent) of that number, so really not very many, but it's still a number that leaves you shaking your head. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Instructor: Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, PPIH, Metallic & Shotgun Shell Reloading; RSO Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club

November 3, 2014, 11:56 AM	#4
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	^^^ I'd be curious to know the relative rate of firearms confiscations versus other classes of contraband. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

November 4, 2014, 03:01 AM	#11
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	Rather than dumping the knife in the trash I would simply give it to someone who is leaving the airport. It is better that someone get some use out of it than either the TSA selling it at one of their warehouses or it going to the dump. My F-I-L carried a Case knife his dad gave him when he was eight-years-old. That would have been in 1936. He made the mistake of getting on a plane with it and it was confiscated. It is hard to go back out and use the mailing service to mail it to yourself when you are in a wheelchair for early boarding. It still galls me that the TSA sells the stuff they confiscate after they have cherry-picked it for the good stuff. __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

November 3, 2014, 12:21 PM	#5
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	Impossible to know this, but I'd be interested in what percent they catch versus those that slip through. Early in the days of TSA there was a "scandal" at O'Hare airport in Chicago, when a "newsperson" publicized slipping a revolver through screening. I doubt they catch all the guns in carry-on bags.

November 3, 2014, 01:25 PM	#7
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	Tom, that adds credibility to the idea that much of the "security" activity is theater, intended to dissuade people from bringing bombs or such on airplanes, but not nearly as good at actually spotting such things as the public is lead to believe.

November 3, 2014, 02:42 PM	#8
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	People who accidentally leave a firearm in a bag, purse, briefcase, etc. and plop it down on the conveyor belt to be X-rayed are not the problem. Obviously they forgot about it and obviously they aren't trying to slip anything past security. We are conditioned to keep our carry guns either on us or somewhere where children aren't likely to get to it. Someone might have put one carry gun in a secured computer bag, leave one at home in a safe and mentally think "my guns are secured", forgetting that they have one in something they intend on bringing onto an airplane. Is this careless? Maybe. Should the person who forgets a gun in his/her carry-on miss the flight, be detained, be required to purchase a new ticket and pay a fine? Probably. Should the gun be confiscated? No. Should such a person be made a criminal? No.

November 3, 2014, 08:32 PM	#10
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	If you carry something with you all the time, it is not stupid to forget that you have it, although it certainly helps if you stop and think before boarding a plane. I have carried a pocket knife almost everyday since I was about 8 years old. More than once in recent years I have been on the verge of going through airport security with a knife in my pocket, when I have remembered my knife at the last minute. I have had to go into the men's room and dump my knife in the trash. I don't carry a gun all the time, so I would probably remember if I had a gun, but I can understand that a person who carries a gun all the time might forget.

November 4, 2014, 09:29 AM	#12
Doogle Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2004 Posts: 399	If someone doesn't know where all of their firearms are at any time...> ...I would have to question their dedication to firearms safety. Keeping control of firearms is a major part of that. Also, I have to think that when intending to fly on a commercial airline I'd at least have to consider this question, "Do I have any firearms on me or in my luggage"? To be surprised to find that one is without me realising it should concern me greatly. To be that blase about carrying a weapon is likely to lead to problems. Some seem to believe that it's OK to lose track of a firearm or two now & then. Heck, we all misplace things, right? Well, no, I don't misplace my firearms. Never have, strongly doubt I ever will, and I don't consider that to be exceptional behaviour. These aren't pens, or watches, or whatever - they are firearms for goodness sake. I'm not overly concerned about the penalties applied. I'd be much more concerned that people can do this and what it indicates about their attitude toward firearms.

November 4, 2014, 10:45 AM	#13
zach_ Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Location: DFW north Posts: 377	These same people probably do not secure their guns at home, or in their vehicle when it is necessary to leave their gun in the car. They should get a heavy fine, full probation for a year or so, misdemeanor offense I would think. Barry Switzer did it. __________________ Z

November 4, 2014, 12:04 PM	#14
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Zach, so do you also believe that people who do not secure their guns at home should also get a "heavy fine, full probation for a year or so, misdemeanor offense" also? Is that what you are advocating? Why should the government, you, or anyone be involved in where my guns are in my own home?

November 4, 2014, 03:27 PM	#15
cohoskip Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: Chimacum, WA Posts: 424	I once forgot my knife was in my pocket. It was found, of course, and I had to exit and use their mail service to send it home. It cost me $12.00 postage (what a racket!) but it is a $50. knife, so I had to do it. Then they wanted me to stand in line again. I just went to the head of the line... __________________ To err is human, to forgive divine Neither is Marine Corps policy... NRA Life Member

November 5, 2014, 03:26 PM	#16
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I've related this story before but many years ago (before TSA) I had a client who flew in to visit his parents. Dad had terminal cancer and Mom asked son to take possession of a pistol to prevent Dad from using it on himself. He hid it in his suitcase. He had a lot to think about and forgot about it until security found it at the airport. The feds investigated and turned it over to local authorities who charged him with carrying a concealed deadly weapon. He paid a $100 fine. So, it does happen and it's not all "stupid" people. But, still, I'm betting that the majority of those 181 confiscated firearms did belong to stupid people.

November 5, 2014, 07:27 PM	#17
zach_ Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Location: DFW north Posts: 377	Skans, I think if there are minors, or mentally ill people in the home, the guns should be secured. The owner of a firearm should have reasonable accountability for the gun. JMO. __________________ Z

November 5, 2014, 08:32 PM	#18
longknife12 Member Join Date: March 13, 2014 Location: Colorado Posts: 95	A couple of years back, went from Denver to Dallas, after 4th body scan, dude asked me to tell him what the 4 dots were that were showing up...... asked if he knew Levi pockets had rivets......Next day, coming back, DFW never said a word........same pants.I had left pocket knife in Jimmy.Carry gun was locked under hood. Dan

November 5, 2014, 08:48 PM	#19
zach_ Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Location: DFW north Posts: 377	Manchester NH. Going through security. Several cops and suits show up after I go through the scanner. Complete search of me, my carry on, wallet, shoes, belt, shorts, socks..... They said I had nitrates all over me. I had no idea how the nitrates were there, after they explained what nitrates were, when put on the spot. After thinking about it, we had been smoking out ground hogs 2 nights before. I had on the same jacket and shoes. The rest of the family flew out later that day. No hassle whatsoever. __________________ Z

November 5, 2014, 08:54 PM	#20
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	There are some that believe they can't bring it on a plane but their luggage is ok. Not making excuses, but it's not uncommon for those that don't fly much. As for CHL'ing, some people are so comfortable with their weapon they forget they have it. No excuse, but .... it happens virtually every week in Phoenix, where people have their gun on them and don't remember it until Beep beep beep. Those that are remorseful are turned over to the Phx PD, who usually gives the well behaved ones a chance to go put it in their car, or just go home. No excuses, but it's pretty common. On the other hand, in New Jersey........... __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

November 6, 2014, 07:07 AM	#22
zach_ Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Location: DFW north Posts: 377	It would be hard to tell the people who are a threat from the people that had a brain dohh........ People that don't fit the profile would just get a slap on the wrist?? That would create a poop storm. __________________ Z

November 8, 2014, 08:26 AM	#24
skoro Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,952	How can people still be this stupid? Mostly because there's no cure. Ignorance? That can be addressed.

November 8, 2014, 12:04 PM	#25
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Strange things happen! A few years ago, whilst living in Toronto, my Wife and I were going to a IALEFI ATC, just think Seminar! The wand picked up something in the bottom of my vest? There was a hole in the right hand side pocket, wasn't a new vest! So much fiddling, popped a 9mm hardball back through the hole, uproar! One of the RCMP Officers were called. With a flourish, this dangerous piece of ordnance was passed over. The Mountie said what is your job Mike (Yes he used my first name) "I am a firearms Instructor". I told him it will not fit in his Mod 65 S&W Revolver. He smiled, dropped it in his pocket, "Have a safe trip" The Security? Chap was incensed, I think he wanted me arrested! Same Airport Toronto, rushing to catch a flight, did not have time to clean my teeth, through security, waiting for flight to be called, off to washroom, used the facilities, cleaned teeth. WOW, $120.00 4" non serrated Benchmade access lock, in same folder. It was all in my backpack, I mailed it home, before I came back.