Upper won't go into full battery.

Hansam · October 21, 2012, 07:51 AM

I bought a brand new upper (.223/5.56) from a gun show. No manufacturer markings anywhere on it. The seller claimed it was NIB/never fired. Now I tried to shoot with it and there's a problem.

The cartridge won't go into full battery. I chamber a round and its still about 1/4" out of battery. The bullet then seats very tightly inside the gun and requires that the charging handle be tapped with a mallet to get the cartridge to extract. There are scratches on the bullet (not the case) when this occurs.

Never ran into this problem before. Any suggestions/ideas on remedying the issue?

Palmetto-Pride · October 21, 2012, 10:28 AM

Could you take a pic looking down the chamber and barrel and post it?

Also without a round will the BCG go into full battery by itself?

UtopiaTexasG19 · October 21, 2012, 10:38 AM

Are these factory rounds or re-loads? Do you have the gauges/equipment to properly measure the rounds? Have you tried another brand/weight?

Hansam · October 21, 2012, 10:54 AM

1. Rounds tried - factory loaded Federal Eagle .223, Federal 5.56, Winchester white box and some hand loads by me, 68grain sp.

2. Yes the BCG will go into full battery without a round in it.

3. Photos will be problematic - camera is broken and phone can't seem to get a good clear pick of the chamber.

Creeper · October 21, 2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

I chamber a round and its still about 1/4" out of battery.

The cartridge is 1/4" out of being fully chambered? Can you duplicate this without using the bolt to chamber the round?

Quote:

The bullet then seats very tightly inside the gun

Specifically... the bullet? There are leade and or rifling marks engraved on the bullet? Where on the bullet... tip, ogive, shank?

C

Hansam · October 21, 2012, 11:23 AM

Ok so I decided to "ram" the round into battery. After chambering it I took the upper off and gave the BCG a good rap with a rubber mallet.

As expected the whole thing snapped into battery. I then extracted it (took several raps to the charging handle with the mallet) and examined the cartridge.

There were some markings on the bullet itself however I believe that these marks came from being stripped from the magazine. I now notice that there are obvious marks on the casing itself. I've attached a photo of the cartridge itself after I managed to extract it.

Note the markings on the rim of the case and around the shoulder of the cartridge... Is the chamber too tight? This is a Federal Brass Eagle brand .223, not 5.56.

How do I go about fixing this now?

Btw, there is no damage to the actual chamber, BCG or charging handle after this.

Mrgunsngear · October 21, 2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Is the chamber too tight?

Yes.

You said there were no marks on it but I'm wondering if it may be a 5.45x39 barrel? A lot of companies (S&W, PSA, ect...) make them; maybe the builder didn't know what the heck he was doing...

Ridge_Runner_5 · October 21, 2012, 11:50 AM

On the top of the barrel, between the flash hider and the front sight, there should be markings that indicate the caliber and the twist rate. Can you find them and put on what it says?

Hansam · October 21, 2012, 12:33 PM

There are no markings whatsoever on the upper or barrel designating caliber.

The barrel is a heavy barrel profile, 20" long and devoid of any markings. I've taken the hand guard/forearm off and found that to be the case beneath the hand guard too.

There is a square that seems to have been cast into the upper just above the forward assist. I'll attach a photo.

That is the only marking on the whole assembly.

Creeper · October 21, 2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

I'm wondering if it may be a 5.45x39 barrel?

Good chance of that.

5.56X45

5.45X39

Palmetto-Pride · October 21, 2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

There is a square that seems to have been cast into the upper just above the forward assist. I'll attach a photo.

The markings on the upper have nothing to do with what kind of barrel it may be since you can install different caliber barrels on the same upper.

Quote:

That is the only marking on the whole assembly.

Wow I cant believe there is not any marking on the barrel itself that identifies what caliber and twist rate it is.

Like this:

Skadoosh · October 21, 2012, 04:10 PM

Perhaps the barrel stamping is hidden under the handguard?

Hansam · October 21, 2012, 04:28 PM

I took the hand guard off. No markings on the barrel at all. I thought that was strange too.

allaroundhunter · October 21, 2012, 05:29 PM

Your best bet is going to be to take it to a gunsmith and have them determine the caliber. Definitely sounds like it is not a .223/5.56 barrel.

Ridge_Runner_5 · October 21, 2012, 06:12 PM

^ Agreed

TMD · October 21, 2012, 06:22 PM

Gotta love those gun show bargins.

BillM · October 21, 2012, 06:42 PM

I had a 16" Oly Arms upper that had a tight chamber. It would chamber
some brands, but not others. Had a gunsmith give it a quick pass with
a chambering reamer---now it eats anything. It happens--tools wear out,
stuff gets manufactured at high speed and low cost, and sometimes
the quality control department steps out for a cup of coffee.

Hansam · October 21, 2012, 09:59 PM

I'm going to check out the possibility that it may be a 5.45x39 upper. I'll take it in to my LGS and have their gunsmith check it out.

brian923 · October 21, 2012, 10:00 PM

when loking into the chamber end with the upper off the lower, can you see if there is something obstructing the chamber/bore? maybe a stuck broke. case thag was never taken out?

allaroundhunter · October 21, 2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

when loking into the chamber end with the upper off the lower, can you see if there is something obstructing the chamber/bore? maybe a stuck broke. case thag was never taken out?

If there was a broken casing in the way he would not be able to even force a good round into the chamber.

2damnold4this · October 22, 2012, 09:34 AM

I wouldn't think he would be able to force the bolt to close on a .223 if he had a 5.45x39 chamber.

allaroundhunter · October 22, 2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2damnold4this

I wouldn't think he would be able to force the bolt to close on a .223 if he had a 5.45x39 chamber.

It would be easier than forcing it closed on a jammed casing.

Sent from my HTC One X

brian923 · October 22, 2012, 01:34 PM

opps. i missed where he forced a round into the chamber.... with a mallet.... why would you do this??? floating firing pin.... makes tons of sence. I wouldnt do it again as you might not get that lucky again...

Scorch · October 22, 2012, 02:23 PM

You cannot force a 5.56X45 NATO cartridge into a 5.45X39 chamber, there is almost 1/4" of difference from the case head to the shoulder and the forces required would be fantastic. The 1/4" he is seeing when the bolt does not go into battery is the distance the bolt head has to travel into the bolt carrier in order to cam the lugs into the barrel extension.

It does sound like the chamber is too tight. Find a gunsmith that has the appropriate reamer and headspace gauges and have the chamber touched up.

Hansam · October 22, 2012, 04:04 PM

First I apologize as I failed to mention that I did not force the round to chamber with the firing pin in the bolt. Its easy enough to take out and no I don't consider myself a very lucky guy so I never leave things up to luck.

Second my LGS confirmed that it was NOT chambered for 5.45x39 bit rather just a poorly made barrel for .223. I'm going to have them fix the problem and thus ends this quandary.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

October 21, 2012, 07:51 AM	#1
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	Upper won't go into full battery. I bought a brand new upper (.223/5.56) from a gun show. No manufacturer markings anywhere on it. The seller claimed it was NIB/never fired. Now I tried to shoot with it and there's a problem. The cartridge won't go into full battery. I chamber a round and its still about 1/4" out of battery. The bullet then seats very tightly inside the gun and requires that the charging handle be tapped with a mallet to get the cartridge to extract. There are scratches on the bullet (not the case) when this occurs. Never ran into this problem before. Any suggestions/ideas on remedying the issue? __________________ This is who we are, what we do. Last edited by Hansam; October 23, 2012 at 06:38 PM.

October 21, 2012, 10:28 AM	#2
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	Could you take a pic looking down the chamber and barrel and post it? Also without a round will the BCG go into full battery by itself? __________________ “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” -Margaret Thatcher-

October 21, 2012, 10:54 AM	#4
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	1. Rounds tried - factory loaded Federal Eagle .223, Federal 5.56, Winchester white box and some hand loads by me, 68grain sp. 2. Yes the BCG will go into full battery without a round in it. 3. Photos will be problematic - camera is broken and phone can't seem to get a good clear pick of the chamber. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.

October 21, 2012, 11:23 AM	#6
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	Ok so I decided to "ram" the round into battery. After chambering it I took the upper off and gave the BCG a good rap with a rubber mallet. As expected the whole thing snapped into battery. I then extracted it (took several raps to the charging handle with the mallet) and examined the cartridge. There were some markings on the bullet itself however I believe that these marks came from being stripped from the magazine. I now notice that there are obvious marks on the casing itself. I've attached a photo of the cartridge itself after I managed to extract it. Note the markings on the rim of the case and around the shoulder of the cartridge... Is the chamber too tight? This is a Federal Brass Eagle brand .223, not 5.56. How do I go about fixing this now? Btw, there is no damage to the actual chamber, BCG or charging handle after this. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.

October 21, 2012, 12:33 PM	#9
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	There are no markings whatsoever on the upper or barrel designating caliber. The barrel is a heavy barrel profile, 20" long and devoid of any markings. I've taken the hand guard/forearm off and found that to be the case beneath the hand guard too. There is a square that seems to have been cast into the upper just above the forward assist. I'll attach a photo. That is the only marking on the whole assembly. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.

October 21, 2012, 10:38 AM	#3
UtopiaTexasG19 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 743	Are these factory rounds or re-loads? Do you have the gauges/equipment to properly measure the rounds? Have you tried another brand/weight?

October 21, 2012, 11:50 AM	#8
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	On the top of the barrel, between the flash hider and the front sight, there should be markings that indicate the caliber and the twist rate. Can you find them and put on what it says?

October 21, 2012, 04:10 PM	#12
Skadoosh Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2010 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,016	Perhaps the barrel stamping is hidden under the handguard? __________________ NRA Life Member USN Retired

October 21, 2012, 04:28 PM	#13
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	I took the hand guard off. No markings on the barrel at all. I thought that was strange too. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.

October 21, 2012, 05:29 PM	#14
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	Your best bet is going to be to take it to a gunsmith and have them determine the caliber. Definitely sounds like it is not a .223/5.56 barrel.

October 21, 2012, 06:12 PM	#15
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	^ Agreed

October 21, 2012, 06:22 PM	#16
TMD Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,293	Gotta love those gun show bargins.

October 21, 2012, 06:42 PM	#17
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	I had a 16" Oly Arms upper that had a tight chamber. It would chamber some brands, but not others. Had a gunsmith give it a quick pass with a chambering reamer---now it eats anything. It happens--tools wear out, stuff gets manufactured at high speed and low cost, and sometimes the quality control department steps out for a cup of coffee.

October 21, 2012, 09:59 PM	#18
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	I'm going to check out the possibility that it may be a 5.45x39 upper. I'll take it in to my LGS and have their gunsmith check it out. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.

October 21, 2012, 10:00 PM	#19
brian923 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 183	when loking into the chamber end with the upper off the lower, can you see if there is something obstructing the chamber/bore? maybe a stuck broke. case thag was never taken out? __________________ 07 FFL offering truly custom AR15'S! https://www.facebook.com/Reactionarms

October 22, 2012, 09:34 AM	#21
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I wouldn't think he would be able to force the bolt to close on a .223 if he had a 5.45x39 chamber.

October 22, 2012, 01:34 PM	#23
brian923 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 183	opps. i missed where he forced a round into the chamber.... with a mallet.... why would you do this??? floating firing pin.... makes tons of sence. I wouldnt do it again as you might not get that lucky again... __________________ 07 FFL offering truly custom AR15'S! https://www.facebook.com/Reactionarms

October 22, 2012, 02:23 PM	#24
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	You cannot force a 5.56X45 NATO cartridge into a 5.45X39 chamber, there is almost 1/4" of difference from the case head to the shoulder and the forces required would be fantastic. The 1/4" he is seeing when the bolt does not go into battery is the distance the bolt head has to travel into the bolt carrier in order to cam the lugs into the barrel extension. It does sound like the chamber is too tight. Find a gunsmith that has the appropriate reamer and headspace gauges and have the chamber touched up. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 22, 2012, 04:04 PM	#25
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	First I apologize as I failed to mention that I did not force the round to chamber with the firing pin in the bolt. Its easy enough to take out and no I don't consider myself a very lucky guy so I never leave things up to luck. Second my LGS confirmed that it was NOT chambered for 5.45x39 bit rather just a poorly made barrel for .223. I'm going to have them fix the problem and thus ends this quandary. Thanks for all the suggestions. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.