Alliant MZ?

ThomasT · June 30, 2018, 07:30 PM

Anyone try the Alliant MZ? My bud watched a couple of youtube vids and the poster was bragging on it. I did a google search and see it has been discontinued.

Well since it has been discontinued that made it more interesting. I found that Sportsmans Warehouse had it for $9.99 a pound. Free shipping over $50 with a $20 hazmat fee. So I ordered 6 pounds of the stuff and hope it works OK.

I did read several positive reviews. Plus my bud is going to buy a couple of pounds of it. He just doesn't know it yet.

So any thoughts? I know its a rerelease of another powder that is citrus based.

FrontierGander · July 1, 2018, 01:07 AM

its American Pioneer powder. Just a new label on it. Alliant even repackaged the IMR White hots and sells them as the Blue MZ pellets.

Black MZ is super cheap like you said, $10 for a pound which makes it a very good buy for blasting off rounds and enjoying your smokepole.

drobs · July 1, 2018, 11:34 AM

At $10 a pound I'd try it out.

Pahoo · July 1, 2018, 12:37 PM

Quote:

its American Pioneer powder.

Not current on Alliant but have shot American Pioneer and it gave good performance. I'd try the Alliant for that price. I use to be pretty current on BP replacement propellants but lost track. Many have come and gone and I'm sure there are more, on the horizon …..

Be Safe !!!

ligonierbill · July 1, 2018, 03:00 PM

I use it for blackpowder cartridges, and it works very well in that application. Fowling is easier to deal with than holy black. I still use the real McCoy in my rock locks, though.

ThomasT · July 1, 2018, 06:16 PM

Thanks for the replies. I did a search here and ligonierbill had the most post recommending it. And yes for $10 a pound I will risk that. If nothing else I will shoot it in my cannon with light loads. But Google turned up a lot of positive comments.

Other than Pyrodex that I bought back in the middle 1990s all I have ever used is real BP. No complaints on the pyrodex either. My bud said he would take a couple of pounds and if you look on the Grafs site there is a small rebate if bought by 6-30 so I squeaked under that.

I don't have a flinter and don't have an inline. I wouldn't admit it if I did. Owning an inline is right up there with having your picture took will Bill and Hillery Clinton.

A rock sparker would be cool to have.

rodwhaincamo · July 1, 2018, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Owning an inline is right up there with having your picture took will Bill and Hillery Clinton.

Gotta say I really like that line!

Jbar4Ranch · July 2, 2018, 01:54 PM

American Pioneer, Goex Pinnacle, and Black MZ all have the same patent number on the label.
I didn't know BMZ was discontinued though...
Sportsman's has it for $9.99 and with one of their 20% off coupons ($10 off $50 or $30 off $150), you buy 5 pounds, and a pair of earplugs out of the candy jar at the gun counter to get it to $50 and change, and then it only costs a few cents over $8/pound. I've burned a LOT of it shooting Cowboy Action.

ThomasT · July 2, 2018, 02:12 PM

Jbar one of the post I read in my google search said it may not be discontinued but just on hold until the present stock is sold off before another run of it is made.

I wish I would have known about Sportsmans Warehouse discounts. That would have helped a little. But I'm happy with the price I paid. After I get my shipment and try it out I may order another batch if its still available for that price.

Jbar4Ranch · July 2, 2018, 02:30 PM

The coupons are an incentive to get people in the store, of course, and they're not available "over the counter". The local shooting clubs usually have some they give away as door prizes at big matches, or a little something for finishing 1st overall at a monthly Cowboy Action shoot or somesuch.

I loaded nearly 3 pounds of the stuff just yesterday whilst loading .357 and 38 Special ammo for CAS. I'm going on a little road trip tomorrow to see some friends out-of-state, and will hit up two more stores on the way... and I've got 2 $30 off coupons and a $10 one... might be an expensive trip!

Hellgate · July 2, 2018, 10:39 PM

I works well in C&B revolvers too. I have never used it that way but a bunch of locals have done so in Plainsman matches without any problems. 10 bucks a pound is hard to resist even if you have a stash of the real stuff. I notice that it cakes up a bit but a good shake breaks it up and it loads fine. I use it mostly in the shotgun.

Jbar4Ranch · July 2, 2018, 10:53 PM

I tried it in a couple .36's just a few days ago - an 1851 and an 1861. Worked just fine.

rclark · July 8, 2018, 06:21 PM

I've used it in my ROAs. Works fine. Have a few pounds of it. $10 vs $27 ... Yeah, I'll use it.

ThomasT · July 10, 2018, 08:51 PM

I received my order of 6 pounds of MZ today. Of course I had to light off a couple of piles of it. Its a little harder to light than real BP but when it goes off boy howdy it burns FAST. I like it. I hope by friday can go burn some of it up.

It looks almost like Pyrodex. Big chunks. But that doesn't matter.

FrontierGander · July 11, 2018, 12:12 AM

pyrodex rs is considered fine grade. APP / Black MZ is kitty litter course. Shoot over a chronograph for real world results. How course that powder certainly DOES matter as some guns will not have a powder opening big enough to let that course powder flow under the nipple. Investarms/Lyman is one that I have pure hell with with a course powder like that.

thallub · July 11, 2018, 09:43 AM

Deleted-Duplicate

thallub · July 11, 2018, 09:45 AM

i've used Black MZ since it first hit the market. Black MZ is a very good and consistent powder. Killed a couple dozen deer using Black MZ along with scores of wild hogs. It works well for me.

Yep, Black MZ more coarse than Pyrodex. "Kitty litter", i don't think so.

Black MZ on the left. Pyrodex RS on the right:

ThomasT · July 12, 2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

pyrodex rs is considered fine grade. APP / Black MZ is kitty litter course. Shoot over a chronograph for real world results. How course that powder certainly DOES matter as some guns will not have a powder opening big enough to let that course powder flow under the nipple. Investarms/Lyman is one that I have pure hell with with a course powder like that.

In the Sam Fadala BP manual he stated if your powder is in the drum or making a trail from the pan to the main charge then you have a fuse and slower ignition.

But no matter. We are going to my buds ranch tomorrow and shoot a few guns with this powder and I will report back on the results. And I will be shooting my Cabelas/Investarms 45 caliber Hawken and maybe my old CVA 45 caliber pistol. So we'll see.

Here is a suggestion regarding Lyman rifles. MY GP rifle was slow to go off. Slower than any of my other guns. I took out the clean out screw and looked through it while shining a light down the barrel. The flash hole was partly blocked. It turns out that when the hole for the clean out screw was drilled(this is the flash hole also) it was not drilled all the way through. So I took a small drill that just fit the hole and it caught and broke off that small piece of flashing left in the barrel. Problem solved. You might want to check your gun for this.

FrontierGander · July 12, 2018, 01:15 PM

75 yards swabbed clean before each shot.

Yes, those lyman barrels are known for burrs and other things. I like the drum set up best. It offers such a huge powder channel and room for the powder to flow.Most importantly, its funneled to put the powder where it needs to go.

arcticap · July 14, 2018, 03:08 PM

As always, great shooting FrontierGander!

I've used a lot of 3F APP and I like it.
But I won't buy any APP unless it's 3F.
Especially for use with C&B revolvers.
Mostly because I basically only shoot BP guns that use regular percussion caps
and want to avoid hangfires and any potential ignition problems.
That Alliant MZ powder doesn't have a granulation marked on the front
of the label on the Sportsman's Warehouse website.
The granulation shown on the stump seems to be coarse.
Smaller granules of some sub powders tend to burn cleaner & faster IMO.

Beagle333 · July 14, 2018, 07:50 PM

FrontierGander..... with nothing for reference that looks like the same granulation as aquarium gravel. Is that about right?

FrontierGander · July 14, 2018, 09:45 PM

kitty litter would be a good comparison. Its a very bulky powder.

Hellgate · July 14, 2018, 11:38 PM

There are probably 20 guys in the NW here that use Black MZ in the Plainsman side matches I have attended and I neither saw nor heard any hangfires or difficulty with ignition. I have had delayed ignition (pa-POW vs just POW) with Pyrodex P unless heavily compressed. A lube wad under the ball sure contributed to delayed ignition in my experience.

Beagle333 · July 15, 2018, 04:10 AM

I'd like to try that MZ, but half my rifles are Lyman/Interarms and I wouldn't want any problems with those. I guess it might shoot in my TC's? Or maybe I could put a small charge of 2F in before the MZ.

thallub · July 15, 2018, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Its a very bulky powder.

Jon; look at my comparison picture.

June 30, 2018, 07:30 PM	#1
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Alliant MZ? Anyone try the Alliant MZ? My bud watched a couple of youtube vids and the poster was bragging on it. I did a google search and see it has been discontinued. Well since it has been discontinued that made it more interesting. I found that Sportsmans Warehouse had it for $9.99 a pound. Free shipping over $50 with a $20 hazmat fee. So I ordered 6 pounds of the stuff and hope it works OK. I did read several positive reviews. Plus my bud is going to buy a couple of pounds of it. He just doesn't know it yet. So any thoughts? I know its a rerelease of another powder that is citrus based.

July 1, 2018, 01:07 AM	#2
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	its American Pioneer powder. Just a new label on it. Alliant even repackaged the IMR White hots and sells them as the Blue MZ pellets. Black MZ is super cheap like you said, $10 for a pound which makes it a very good buy for blasting off rounds and enjoying your smokepole. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

July 1, 2018, 11:34 AM	#3
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	At $10 a pound I'd try it out. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 2, 2018, 01:54 PM	#8
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	American Pioneer, Goex Pinnacle, and Black MZ all have the same patent number on the label. I didn't know BMZ was discontinued though... Sportsman's has it for $9.99 and with one of their 20% off coupons ($10 off $50 or $30 off $150), you buy 5 pounds, and a pair of earplugs out of the candy jar at the gun counter to get it to $50 and change, and then it only costs a few cents over $8/pound. I've burned a LOT of it shooting Cowboy Action. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

July 2, 2018, 02:12 PM	#9
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Jbar one of the post I read in my google search said it may not be discontinued but just on hold until the present stock is sold off before another run of it is made. I wish I would have known about Sportsmans Warehouse discounts. That would have helped a little. But I'm happy with the price I paid. After I get my shipment and try it out I may order another batch if its still available for that price. Last edited by ThomasT; July 2, 2018 at 05:41 PM.

July 1, 2018, 03:00 PM	#5
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	I use it for blackpowder cartridges, and it works very well in that application. Fowling is easier to deal with than holy black. I still use the real McCoy in my rock locks, though.

July 1, 2018, 06:16 PM	#6
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Thanks for the replies. I did a search here and ligonierbill had the most post recommending it. And yes for $10 a pound I will risk that. If nothing else I will shoot it in my cannon with light loads. But Google turned up a lot of positive comments. Other than Pyrodex that I bought back in the middle 1990s all I have ever used is real BP. No complaints on the pyrodex either. My bud said he would take a couple of pounds and if you look on the Grafs site there is a small rebate if bought by 6-30 so I squeaked under that. I don't have a flinter and don't have an inline. I wouldn't admit it if I did. Owning an inline is right up there with having your picture took will Bill and Hillery Clinton. A rock sparker would be cool to have.

July 2, 2018, 02:30 PM	#10
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	The coupons are an incentive to get people in the store, of course, and they're not available "over the counter". The local shooting clubs usually have some they give away as door prizes at big matches, or a little something for finishing 1st overall at a monthly Cowboy Action shoot or somesuch. I loaded nearly 3 pounds of the stuff just yesterday whilst loading .357 and 38 Special ammo for CAS. I'm going on a little road trip tomorrow to see some friends out-of-state, and will hit up two more stores on the way... and I've got 2 $30 off coupons and a $10 one... might be an expensive trip! __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

July 2, 2018, 10:39 PM	#11
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I works well in C&B revolvers too. I have never used it that way but a bunch of locals have done so in Plainsman matches without any problems. 10 bucks a pound is hard to resist even if you have a stash of the real stuff. I notice that it cakes up a bit but a good shake breaks it up and it loads fine. I use it mostly in the shotgun. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

July 2, 2018, 10:53 PM	#12
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	I tried it in a couple .36's just a few days ago - an 1851 and an 1861. Worked just fine. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

July 8, 2018, 06:21 PM	#13
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	I've used it in my ROAs. Works fine. Have a few pounds of it. $10 vs $27 ... Yeah, I'll use it. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

July 10, 2018, 08:51 PM	#14
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	I received my order of 6 pounds of MZ today. Of course I had to light off a couple of piles of it. Its a little harder to light than real BP but when it goes off boy howdy it burns FAST. I like it. I hope by friday can go burn some of it up. It looks almost like Pyrodex. Big chunks. But that doesn't matter.

July 11, 2018, 12:12 AM	#15
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	pyrodex rs is considered fine grade. APP / Black MZ is kitty litter course. Shoot over a chronograph for real world results. How course that powder certainly DOES matter as some guns will not have a powder opening big enough to let that course powder flow under the nipple. Investarms/Lyman is one that I have pure hell with with a course powder like that. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

July 11, 2018, 09:43 AM	#16
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Deleted-Duplicate

July 11, 2018, 09:45 AM	#17
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	i've used Black MZ since it first hit the market. Black MZ is a very good and consistent powder. Killed a couple dozen deer using Black MZ along with scores of wild hogs. It works well for me. Yep, Black MZ more coarse than Pyrodex. "Kitty litter", i don't think so. Black MZ on the left. Pyrodex RS on the right:

July 12, 2018, 01:15 PM	#19
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	75 yards swabbed clean before each shot. Yes, those lyman barrels are known for burrs and other things. I like the drum set up best. It offers such a huge powder channel and room for the powder to flow.Most importantly, its funneled to put the powder where it needs to go. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

July 14, 2018, 03:08 PM	#20
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	As always, great shooting FrontierGander! I've used a lot of 3F APP and I like it. But I won't buy any APP unless it's 3F. Especially for use with C&B revolvers. Mostly because I basically only shoot BP guns that use regular percussion caps and want to avoid hangfires and any potential ignition problems. That Alliant MZ powder doesn't have a granulation marked on the front of the label on the Sportsman's Warehouse website. The granulation shown on the stump seems to be coarse. Smaller granules of some sub powders tend to burn cleaner & faster IMO.

July 14, 2018, 07:50 PM	#21
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	FrontierGander..... with nothing for reference that looks like the same granulation as aquarium gravel. Is that about right? __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

July 14, 2018, 09:45 PM	#22
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	kitty litter would be a good comparison. Its a very bulky powder. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

July 14, 2018, 11:38 PM	#23
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	There are probably 20 guys in the NW here that use Black MZ in the Plainsman side matches I have attended and I neither saw nor heard any hangfires or difficulty with ignition. I have had delayed ignition (pa-POW vs just POW) with Pyrodex P unless heavily compressed. A lube wad under the ball sure contributed to delayed ignition in my experience. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell) Last edited by Hellgate; July 15, 2018 at 11:38 AM.

July 15, 2018, 04:10 AM	#24
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	I'd like to try that MZ, but half my rifles are Lyman/Interarms and I wouldn't want any problems with those. I guess it might shoot in my TC's? Or maybe I could put a small charge of 2F in before the MZ. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile. Last edited by Beagle333; July 16, 2018 at 01:01 AM.