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Old November 6, 2018, 01:03 PM   #26
K_Mac
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Dogtown buying, trading or selling a gun at a local dealer or pawn shop is nothing to be embarrassed about. Leaving a little money on the table for the convenience, especially with someone known and trusted is OK with many of us. I, for one, have no interest worrying about making or saving the last nickel on a trade or sale. When I deal with my local guy if he gives me a fair deal and makes a buck doing it I'm good with that.

For the record, I will never buy or sell a firearm through a forum or auction site. Life is too short. With insurance, vehicles, firearms and many other things price is only one part of the deal. There are some who take great pride in getting the best price in all things. I've heard that described as 'penny wise and pound foolish.'
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Old November 6, 2018, 01:12 PM   #27
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I would be embarrassed to tell people I sold/traded guns to a pawn shop, heck, even a regular gun dealer. You don't know the specifics of the deal.

Basically you are getting 60% or less of his wholesale cost....while you could have sold them for significantly more $$$ on any gun forum. This is an assumption and I do not do FTF sales with individuals; I've sold on GB and my auction(s) specifically state no FTF sales, if that cost me a few bucks, fine.

In order of best way to get maximum value for your guns:
Online gun forum.....where you set the price I traded for a price I agreed to, so I did set the price.
GunBroker or other auction site.....where you set the price I've bought and sold pistols on GB before
Consignment at gun dealer.....where you set the price
Sale to gun dealer
Trade value to gun dealer or pawnbroker......the worst of all. Yea, I did so bad I only got $300 for a used P3AT and LCP


Gun dealers and pawnbrokers make the most profit off of used firearms. IMO I could not have sold them on GB for more.




Obviously I'm completely naive.
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Old November 9, 2018, 07:51 AM   #28
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The P32 is obsolete with the Magguts +1 extension that rides inside the factory LCP magazine.

No rim lock, better ammo all together, better ammo selection.

I did love my grey Hard Chromed P3AT in appearance though.

P3AT HC in grey next to my CM9:

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Old November 9, 2018, 02:50 PM   #29
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The P32 is most certainly not obsolete...
It will still do everything it ever did.
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Old November 9, 2018, 06:54 PM   #30
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All of these "ALUMINUM" chassis 380's are all about the same. LCP any version, Keltec, Taurus etc, just subjective as to which one is better. Lousy sights, cheap build quality, none meant to handle much ammo down range.
Having owned many, I would say the best choice would be the one with the best customer service, one that will eventually replace the gun entirely after they start cracking frames, grips etc.
That said, at least with the Spectrum, you could change out the grip if cracked by yourself. If going the route of Aluminum then the LCP Gen 2 which I have seen selling as low as $159.00 would possibly be the best buy.
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Old November 10, 2018, 12:50 AM   #31
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All of these "ALUMINUM" chassis 380's are all about the same. LCP any version, Keltec, Taurus etc, just subjective as to which one is better. Lousy sights, cheap build quality, none meant to handle much ammo down range.
Having owned many, I would say the best choice would be the one with the best customer service, one that will eventually replace the gun entirely after they start cracking frames, grips etc.
That said, at least with the Spectrum, you could change out the grip if cracked by yourself. If going the route of Aluminum then the LCP Gen 2 which I have seen selling as low as $159.00 would possibly be the best buy.
Given how cheap they are, yet what they allow people to do, namely carry a gun almost anywhere on them, cracking isn't that big an issue. Something like the Beretta Tomcat .32, which has known frame cracking issues, it's way too expensive to be replacing.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind an all steel .380 that's the same size as the LCP/TCP/P3AT, but not if it costs more than $500. About the only gun that comes close is the Bersa, but it's all aluminum.
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Old November 10, 2018, 01:01 AM   #32
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You should check out the NAA Guardian.

https://northamericanarms.com/shop/firearms/naa-380acp/
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Old November 10, 2018, 01:13 AM   #33
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You should check out the NAA Guardian.

https://northamericanarms.com/shop/firearms/naa-380acp/
Yeah, that's pretty close, I just don't like the trigger or those nubs that NAA calls sights. If you're gonna sell a heavy gun like that, at least make the trigger a DA/SA.

If NAA did that, I might buy one in .380, but if Ruger made an LCP II with a DA/SA trigger and in .32, I'd rather have that. With .32 it'll hold up, be very light, low recoil, decent sights... really the perfect pocket pistol.
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Old November 10, 2018, 06:23 AM   #34
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I shot the P3AT, Pico, and LCPII back-to-back-to-back and very much preferred the LCPII.

The P3AT was traded at my LGS towards a different gun. The owner handles all of my FFL transfers, often for free. If/when I decide I don't like a certain gun, I hold onto it until he has something I want, then I do a trade with him. I know that he makes good money on both ends of the trade, but that's fine with me. I like to do my part to help keep him in business.

My Beretta 84 is a much more sturdy pistol than my LCPII, but it also won't fit into the breast pocket of my denim jacket. Each of the two pistols has its specific niche, and each fills it well.
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Old November 10, 2018, 08:29 AM   #35
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I assure you the end user can change the grip on the LCP/P3AT.

I know this because the grey P3AT I posted just a few above started life as black.

And I'm not totally mechanically inclined...
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Old November 10, 2018, 08:30 AM   #36
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The all steel Kevin/Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle went off the market a few years back because no one bought it.
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Old November 10, 2018, 03:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
The all steel Kevin/Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle went off the market a few years back because no one bought it.
They were also expensive, quite thick, had a one finger grip, and the barrel was so short no hollow points at the time would expand. With the fluted all copper or copper/polymer bullet we have today it wouldn't be as big an issue.

I think the biggest reason they didn't sell is because when someone is at a gun shop and is looking at .380's, they buy the cheapest, smallest one they can find.
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Old November 10, 2018, 07:03 PM   #38
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I really like my P11 .. I use flush 12rd magazines... Yep 12+1 9mm .. Trigger long and stout .. very similar to a good DAO J frame trigger .... But , I cut my teeth on DA revolvers ...
I have a belt clip installed.. I carry it IWB appendix...



I have ran around 650 rounds through this pistol.... 100% realiable
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Old November 10, 2018, 07:17 PM   #39
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Truth Tellers.......The NAA .380 is like a grenade going off in your hand when firing with the original grips,
KelTecs or LCP are MUCH more comfortable because of the locked breeches.
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Old November 10, 2018, 09:29 PM   #40
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if I could find a Kel-tec P32 for $150 in my hand I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
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Old November 11, 2018, 12:11 AM   #41
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"If I could find a Kel-tec P32 for $150 in my hand I'd buy it in a heartbeat."


I won mine for a $120-something bid on Gunbroker a year or two ago. It's used but in pretty good shape.
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Old November 11, 2018, 02:21 AM   #42
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Truth Tellers.......The NAA .380 is like a grenade going off in your hand when firing with the original grips,
KelTecs or LCP are MUCH more comfortable because of the locked breeches.
That's what I've heard. Even the .32 is snappy to some. All that recoil for such a thicc, heavy gun isn't a good choice for ccw in 2018.

Maybe in 1997.
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Old November 11, 2018, 02:48 PM   #43
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I have told this story before:

Lat December one year I was working on my P32. After reading an incorrect disassembly guide, I broke the mainspring. Called Keltec to order another. Keltec was closed for the holidays. I decided to carry my NAA Guardian .32 until January.

Stuck it in my pocket and went to work.

After work I went straight to my friend's gun shop and bought a spare P32!
That's how much heavier the Guardian is.
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Old November 11, 2018, 08:31 PM   #44
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Quote:
khegglie Truth Tellers.......The NAA .380 is like a grenade going off in your hand when firing with the original grips,
KelTecs or LCP are MUCH more comfortable because of the locked breeches.
I had a Guardian in .380 and concur.
Most painful handgun I've ever fired.

Couldn't wait to get rid of it.
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Old November 14, 2018, 06:28 PM   #45
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one thing people tend to overlook on Keltecs is the quality of the steel compared to other brands. Kelted uses very good steel and its pretty rare to see slides fail on keltecs. Two exceptions are the PF9 and old P40. Those pistols are pretty fragile compared to the P11, P32, and P3at.

Keltecs aluminum recievers tend to hold up a lot better than all the other Keltec clones out there. As do the polymer grips on the keltecs.

Another huge benefit of Keltecs is parts support from the factory. Easy to order and inexpensive. Also Keltec does not tend to discontinue pistols unlike most manufacturers these days.

P32.... Just a great little 32 that stands alone in its class. Nothing really comes close in terms of pocket gun.

P3at.... one of the best pocket 380s. Rough on the outside but they hold up better than any of the others due to quality of raw materials used. Outside the beretta pico I dont think any of the P3at clones out do the P3at. Yes I am talking about even ruger LCP which crack slides, split frames, crack crips. I typically recomend the Pico for a pocket 380 because they are head and shoulders than even a keltec but other than the Beretta I put P3ats at the top of the heap reguardless of the rougher external appearance.

P11... is a legend of a pistol IMO. Very small, very light, lots of firepower, very durable, very reliable, Double strike capability, 10-12 rds with option of 15 rd backup mags, Lots of aftermarket etc. etc. I am amazed how much attention the sig is getting when the P11 still beats it on versatility. I get the marketing aspect and how new is better etc. etc. but P11s have a proven track record. As for all the P11 clones... its not even close.

Biggest gripe people seem to have on the p11 is the trigger. It has more to do with overtravel than anything. Once you fix that they are accurate.

PF9s are a whole nother story. They are not like p11s. Its not uncommon for them to have major component failures after low round count. Why they didnt stick with the P11 slide is beyong me. I suspect when they sacrificed the p11 hammer design it caused more beating on the slides and shortening the life of the pistol. It would be a solid pistol in 380acp but its not strong enough for 9mm IMO. They could beef up the slide a bit, maybe go with a steel frame (ala the old grendels), and possibly work out a better recoil spring system to rectify this but Keltec seems to have accepted the failures of the PF9.
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Old November 14, 2018, 07:00 PM   #46
Carl the Floor Walker
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
I assure you the end user can change the grip on the LCP/P3AT.

I know this because the grey P3AT I posted just a few above started life as black.

And I'm not totally mechanically inclined...
So you are saying the LCP is now modular? You can change the grip? I will take you up on that, show me how you do this, where to buy the grips and how that is done considering the serial Number is on the grip. This will be interesting.
Hopefully you can contact Ruger and let them know. Especially since in had a number of the grips crack so bad that Ruger had to replace them and not to mention cracks in the aluminum frame and even rails splitting.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 14, 2018 at 07:15 PM.
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Old November 14, 2018, 07:22 PM   #47
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Given how cheap they are, yet what they allow people to do, namely carry a gun almost anywhere on them, cracking isn't that big an issue. Something like the Beretta Tomcat .32, which has known frame cracking issues, it's way too expensive to be replacing.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind an all steel .380 that's the same size as the LCP/TCP/P3AT, but not if it costs more than $500. About the only gun that comes close is the Bersa, but it's all aluminum.
No one is talking about the fact that they can be extremely easy to carry. The Keltec would be the only one of the aluminum chassis guns I would buy. The 380 cartridge is just too powerful for many rounds to be fired through them before the fold like a cheap lawn chair. The 32 cal should do ok. And with the new Cavitator ammo, it would make a very capable pocket pistol.
You do not have to buy a all steel. The Pico and the Kahr are all steel chassis and will run like the dickens. I have two Pico and they just keep on trucking. One must have about 4-5 thousand rounds now without a hiccup. The second one over 1500 rounds and they will easily handle the hottest loads. And they are extremely mild to shoot. No harsh recoil, no high five muzzle flip etc. Tough build quality.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 14, 2018 at 07:35 PM.
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Old November 14, 2018, 08:42 PM   #48
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I don't have an LCP here to compare, but they are blatant P3AT copies.
The P3AT frame is serial numbered. The frame is housed in the GRIP FRAME, which is plastic. And the grip frame is easily changed.
I believe it's against federal law for a plastic pistol to have the SN on the plastic-it has to be on metal.
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Old November 15, 2018, 11:42 AM   #49
Carl the Floor Walker
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Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs View Post
I don't have an LCP here to compare, but they are blatant P3AT copies.
The P3AT frame is serial numbered. The frame is housed in the GRIP FRAME, which is plastic. And the grip frame is easily changed.
I believe it's against federal law for a plastic pistol to have the SN on the plastic-it has to be on metal.
Where can I order one for the LCP? Ruger must really be dumb, since they had two replace two pistols that the Polymer grip frame had cracked. Two new FFL's.
And to think I can replace a new Grip frame on my Pico for a measly $18.00, which I have bought simply to change out the color or do some Hot Iron work on.


Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 15, 2018 at 11:54 AM.
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Old November 15, 2018, 02:58 PM   #50
Bill DeShivs
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Talk to Ruger.
The LCP serial number is clearly on the aluminum frame, seen through a window in the plastic grip frame-just like the Pico..
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