|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
August 25, 2018, 07:21 PM | #1 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 22, 2015
Location: new england
Posts: 1,159
|
45 acp Broomhandle, educate me
Quote:
What is the market like on these: Honest well worn, beat to hell, refinish, or museum piece. I have no idea. Google was not very helpful. I did find a 4,000 price on something. What are the more recent productions all about. Another collector pit fall or an honest variation on the theme? |
|
August 25, 2018, 08:22 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 22, 2015
Location: new england
Posts: 1,159
|
Since I posted this, I went back to Gun Broker and apparently my computer had hung up and after this was posted I got 3/5 hits for 45 acp Bromhandles. Prices running 3200 to 3500 excepting the usual high dollar exception. I guess, all I need now is money. Story of my life.
Are these amazing guns or not? |
August 26, 2018, 08:52 AM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: July 17, 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 85
|
I remember when these where imported back in the 1980s,
|
August 26, 2018, 09:23 AM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,839
|
Quote:
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin |
|
August 26, 2018, 12:16 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 22, 2015
Location: new england
Posts: 1,159
|
I did ask a couple sellers on gun broker if they test fired the guns. N O from both.
I would plan to use C&R if it was legit. That is another reason I was posting here. Some of these guns are old, but; apparently some were made in 1970's or 80's. Now, that maybe an error and in fact they were imported in the 70s and all made prior? Is there any marking to sell the C&R from the new. Or perhaps all Broomhandles are curios by definition that the value is as a collectable rather that for shooting. The flip side of the when built is a circa 1980 could (atleast potentially) be better made than a 1930 gun. Or the other way around? |
August 26, 2018, 12:33 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
|
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for good documented info. Anybody with internet access can post anything they want there.
Yen Hsi-shan ruled China from 1949 to 1950. Not exactly early 20th Century. Buy the gun, not the story. "...3200 to 3500..." One of 'em in "VERY GOOD" condition was sold by Rock Island auction this past February for $1840. So $3200 to $3500 is optimistic. Mind you, they have another complete with the holster/stock they're estimating will sell for $2,750 - $4,250. "...Chinese Communist standards..." That's funny. They used anything they could get their hands on. There was no standard.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count! |
August 26, 2018, 03:18 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
|
That is a new one on me, thank you.
My understanding was that the Chinese did have a factory that turned out some pretty good armaments. May not apply here. Chinese Communists of course would shift to Russian machinery, stamped out guns are not the same as steel receiver. A bit like the 1917 in WWII. Yes machinery could shift to 1903, not worth it. In this case not designed for the primary SK or AK either.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not |
August 26, 2018, 05:33 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 22, 2015
Location: new england
Posts: 1,159
|
Quote:
|
|
August 26, 2018, 11:19 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2013
Posts: 3,824
|
Deleted
Last edited by tangolima; August 27, 2018 at 02:27 AM. |
August 27, 2018, 07:31 AM | #10 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,389
|
I've seen two, both imported with the other Chinese Broomhandles back in the late 1980s/early 1990s.
In general, Chinese-made Broomhandles ranged from pretty darned good to no way in hell am I going to shoot that thing... Both of the .45s fell into the latter category. On one I swear the steel was so soft that you could gouge it with a fingernail... OK, not that bad, but the first thing the owner did when he got it was to have it Rockwell tested.... it had a lot in common with well aged cheddar cheese... He never was brave enough to shoot it.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
August 29, 2018, 02:45 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 1,752
|
|
August 29, 2018, 03:38 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
I bet there are Russian warehouses full of Mausers, also Lugers and Smith & Wessons that our wise leaders will not let them sell here.
If we could get their surplus pistols like we can their old rifles, it would be a treasure trove. |
August 29, 2018, 08:59 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2014
Posts: 163
|
There is a good book by Dunlap and Belford about the Mauser pistol and how it was invented by a Mauser smithy. There are pictures of the Chinese copy 45's. Pictures of presentation pieces and other Mauser porn that would make your mouth water.
__________________
Keep your guns clean.... the kids may put them in their mouths! |
August 30, 2018, 05:38 AM | #14 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,389
|
"I bet there are Russian warehouses full of Mausers, also Lugers and Smith & Wessons that our wise leaders will not let them sell here."
It's been said by people who did a lot of the exportation of arms from Russia to the American surplus market after the wall fell that there really isn't much of anything left.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
August 30, 2018, 07:49 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
I know we are to the bottom of the barrel on MNs, Nagants and Tokarevs.
Did I miss the influx of Russian Broomhandles? We sure got in a lot of Chicom surplus and a wave of Russian guns would certainly have been noticeable. . Did the Soviets scrap their .44 Russians? S&W did a very good business on them, not to mention Belgian and Russian copies. I remember an old account of a .44 Russian being captured in Korea. Maybe they gave all of them to tin pot dictators who then junked them in favor of more modern weapons. There were a lot fewer actual Russian contract Lugers than I thought. If they turned up the rest of them it would sure get them some dollars. |
August 30, 2018, 10:00 AM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,518
|
Quote:
Apparently, every lend-lease tank we sent them had a Thompson on board, and Russia didn't want to deal with supply headaches of another cartridge, so the Tommy guns were stored in a cave, somewhere. SARCO was selling the rear sights for over $200, as I recall.
__________________
Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong. |
|
August 30, 2018, 01:46 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
I remember those ads.
Couldn't be bothered to distribute some of the .45 ammo we no doubt sent. (Several years ago there were large amounts of WWII .45 reimported from Europe.) Kind of like the Chicoms munging 1911s up to shoot .30 Tokarev/Mauser. |
August 30, 2018, 11:26 PM | #18 |
Staff
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,838
|
I wish I bought a Shenshi when they were being imported.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe! |
August 31, 2018, 05:57 AM | #19 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,389
|
"Did I miss the influx of Russian Broomhandles? We sure got in a lot of Chicom surplus and a wave of Russian guns would certainly have been noticeable."
It's a pretty bold assumption that there are actually any Broomhandles, No. 3s, or Winchester Model 95s left to reimport. The Soviets purchased roughly 20,000 Broomhandles, but they (unlike the Chinese) NEVER manufactured them. They were never that widespread, and it's likely that most of those were lost during WWII. The same with the S&W revolvers. Yes, the Russians purchased/manufactured 300,000 of them, but they soldiered through multiple wars. No. 3s were being issued out of desperation in the early stages of the war to divisions that were thrown into battle virtually unequipped and untrained and which suffered horrific losses. The same with the Winchester Model 95s, only the 95s had to make it through two world wars. It's not as if the Russians/Soviets took possession of those guns and immediately stored them in archive grade facilities so that they could later release them on the American surplus market. Oh, and let's not forget that the Soviets also provided arms and ammunition to the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War, and the Soviets very kindly send them a lot of Winchester 1895s... https://scwmosin.weebly.com/the-1895...ter-rifle.html The same with No 3.s
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
August 31, 2018, 06:07 AM | #20 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,389
|
"Couldn't be bothered to distribute some of the .45 ammo we no doubt sent."
The Soviets already had a common submachine gun/handgun cartridge. Why put additional pressure on the supply chain by issuing firearms and ammo that would have been a drop in the bucket compared to the standard types already in use?
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
August 31, 2018, 08:49 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
The Soviets sent us a good number of 1895s, too. I recall the ads and the rifles on shelves during the Golden Age of Surplus.
I was thinking of German policy on oddball weapons. They were said to have issued them for occupation of the country where they were made, so as to be in reach of parts and even ammo e.g. 1914 Norwegian .45. The Russians weren't doing much occupation, but it seems they could have gotten some use out of donated gear. How much SMG shooting is a tanker going to do, anyhow? Oh, well, no point debating history, they didn't and that's that. I saw the ads for their Thompson "parts kits" and thought they were interesting but useless. |
September 1, 2018, 11:55 AM | #22 |
Staff
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,838
|
All 45 ACP Broomhandles were made in Nationalist China (KuoMinTang) before the Commies overran the place.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe! |
September 2, 2018, 08:08 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 10, 2018
Posts: 150
|
Back in the 1980's Federal Ordinance imported thousands of these and put new barrels, springs, stocks, and reworked them. I look on G-broker every week but someday I will find one.
|
September 2, 2018, 10:09 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2013
Posts: 3,824
|
Quote:
-TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk |
|
September 2, 2018, 10:17 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
Sure you can. Saw the old one off, ream out the stub, and thread for a barrel like a Luger.
|
|
|