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Old November 28, 2020, 09:48 PM   #1
deerslayer303
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Calling No 5 Mk I "Jungle Carbine" Owners

My Best Friend and long time Hunting buddy have made a pact to make next deer season challenging. We both have been hunting deer most of our lives and have took truck loads of deer in that time. SO, next season we have each made a list of guns to take a deer with that normally would NEVER go to the woods. We each start with #1 on the list. The first has to be an Iron sighted Cartridge rifle. And the one I have picked that fits this criteria is the old Jungle Carbine. She is a 1947 unissued Fazakerly with a beautiful bore. So I need to find a round or load that will work well in the rifle. Where I hunt I have maybe a 75 yard shot. In hopes of speeding up this process I hope some of you may help. What weight of bullet have you guys found performed the best in your Jungle Carbine? Or is there a load that you have found that works well?
Thank you
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Old November 29, 2020, 12:48 AM   #2
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JMHO, but at that range I'd imagine any soft-nosed hunting ammo in .303 British should be just ducky. I kinda miss my No.5, sold it to buy something I love more though.
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Old November 29, 2020, 05:36 AM   #3
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I've had two, one with a B Square mount/Bushnell 4X and one with irons. Both were good for softball size groups at 100 yards. This was the early 80s and since Remington 180 grain Core Lokt was available locally, that's what I shot in them. I would use it with confidence as a hunting load.
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Old November 29, 2020, 08:11 AM   #4
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Lent mine to my newly-arrived cousin, in Toronto Canada. He fired 3 rounds of mil-spec corrosive rounds and did not boil the barrel out!
No, I did not strangle him, I was tempted.
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Old November 29, 2020, 08:53 AM   #5
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Privi makes a soft point hunting round for the .303. I find at distances under 100 yards, 150 grain .311 bullets work well.
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Old November 29, 2020, 10:14 AM   #6
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Thanks Guys, I have only shot the rifle twice at 25 yards, cleaned it and put it in the safe. I was just asking as I know my old Sporterized No 4 Mark I Long branch 2 groove likes a Heavy bullet 175-180 grain. It doesn't do so well with a 150. And I wasn't sure if this was the case with the Carbine.
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Old November 29, 2020, 01:03 PM   #7
Jim Watson
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I think you would have to shoot it to see, but the long time .303 Mk VII bullet is a 174 gr flat base Spitzer.
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Old November 29, 2020, 01:21 PM   #8
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If you can find them get some of the Remington 180gr Core-Lokt. Yes, its Grampa's ammo. No, its not the latest trophybonded super bullet, but deer, well, they don't know that...

Its not a heavy load, I consider the recoil mild (something you might appreciate with a jungle carbine) and it absolutely will work if you do your part.

I bought several boxes years ago, mostly for the brass, I thought, at the time. Got a 1917 No 3 who's previous owner said the barrel was shot out and gave me a new barrel along with it.

Just to check I shot some of the Rem ammo, about 70yds, from a kneeling position, and got 5 shots in about an inch and a half. Nothing wrong with that rifle's barrel!!

It may not be the most accurate thing possible in your gun, but I'm confident it will be accurate and powerful enough for deer under the conditions you describe.
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Old November 29, 2020, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerslayer303 View Post
My Best Friend and long time Hunting buddy have made a pact to make next deer season challenging. We both have been hunting deer most of our lives and have took truck loads of deer in that time. SO, next season we have each made a list of guns to take a deer with that normally would NEVER go to the woods. We each start with #1 on the list. The first has to be an Iron sighted Cartridge rifle. And the one I have picked that fits this criteria is the old Jungle Carbine. She is a 1947 unissued Fazakerly with a beautiful bore. So I need to find a round or load that will work well in the rifle. Where I hunt I have maybe a 75 yard shot. In hopes of speeding up this process I hope some of you may help. What weight of bullet have you guys found performed the best in your Jungle Carbine? Or is there a load that you have found that works well?
Thank you
The largest deer I ever shot was 1965, a nine-point that exceeded 200lbs dressed weight. It was not a Jungle Carbine, but a sportized First World War SMLE. I believe the bullet weight was 180 grains and was a round-nose bullet. Two shots in quick succession (no response to the first...thought I had missed. No response to the second shot thought I had missed again. I made a desperate third shot as it ran away from me in an attempt to break it's spine. It dropped on the thrid shot and when field dressed found that first to shots were about four inches apart...through both lungs and exited. I found the third shot, in the flesh next to the spine, about eight inch penetration with a perfect mushroom.
I also took one of the smallest deer I have ever shot...with that .303. I had a Michigan antlerless deer permit that year. I saw a small antlerless deer loping along, fired once and it piled-up...but seemed to try to continue pushing with its back legs but soon expired. I found that the .303 bullet (likely an 180 grain round nose), blew out the near shoulder, exiting out the off-shoulder destroying a whole lot of meat. Ever after that incident, I was always careful to shoot behind the shoulder.
Over the years I have taken many deer with many different guns, cartridges, and found that they all performed about the same if one shoots behind the shoulder. So, if you are hankering to shoot a deer with your SMLE Jungle Carbine, go ahead and do it with confidence.
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Old November 29, 2020, 07:42 PM   #10
deerslayer303
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Quote:
If you can find them get some of the Remington 180gr Core-Lokt. Yes, its Grampa's ammo. No, its not the latest trophybonded super bullet, but deer, well, they don't know that...

Its not a heavy load, I consider the recoil mild (something you might appreciate with a jungle carbine) and it absolutely will work if you do your part.

I bought several boxes years ago, mostly for the brass, I thought, at the time. Got a 1917 No 3 who's previous owner said the barrel was shot out and gave me a new barrel along with it.

Just to check I shot some of the Rem ammo, about 70yds, from a kneeling position, and got 5 shots in about an inch and a half. Nothing wrong with that rifle's barrel!!

It may not be the most accurate thing possible in your gun, but I'm confident it will be accurate and powerful enough for deer under the conditions you describe.
Yes Sir I have quite a few boxes of that Rem 180 round nose I used to use when I hunted with my No. 4 MKI . I remember the carnage they leave behind if you shoot a whitetail square in the shoulder too. I'll go shoot this butt kicker some with them and see how she does. Thank you for the advice.
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Old November 29, 2020, 07:48 PM   #11
deerslayer303
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Quote:
The largest deer I ever shot was 1965, a nine-point that exceeded 200lbs dressed weight. It was not a Jungle Carbine, but a sportized First World War SMLE. I believe the bullet weight was 180 grains and was a round-nose bullet. Two shots in quick succession (no response to the first...thought I had missed. No response to the second shot thought I had missed again. I made a desperate third shot as it ran away from me in an attempt to break it's spine. It dropped on the thrid shot and when field dressed found that first to shots were about four inches apart...through both lungs and exited. I found the third shot, in the flesh next to the spine, about eight inch penetration with a perfect mushroom.
I also took one of the smallest deer I have ever shot...with that .303. I had a Michigan antlerless deer permit that year. I saw a small antlerless deer loping along, fired once and it piled-up...but seemed to try to continue pushing with its back legs but soon expired. I found that the .303 bullet (likely an 180 grain round nose), blew out the near shoulder, exiting out the off-shoulder destroying a whole lot of meat. Ever after that incident, I was always careful to shoot behind the shoulder.
Over the years I have taken many deer with many different guns, cartridges, and found that they all performed about the same if one shoots behind the shoulder. So, if you are hankering to shoot a deer with your SMLE Jungle Carbine, go ahead and do it with confidence.
Yes Sir, My first deer rifle was a .303. And I sure learned fast to shoot behind the shoulder with those round nose bullets. They are animals in the shoulder blades.
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Old November 29, 2020, 09:03 PM   #12
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The Jungle Carbine makes an excellent deer rifle for the same reasons it was developed as a jungle warfare rifle......

The large ring aperture sight works well in the dim conditions of the woods, and the flash hider works as well in the over cast woods as in the dim jungle.
The short length and fast bolt action serve very well on game.

So, you can do a whole lot worse for a deer rifle.
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Old November 29, 2020, 10:23 PM   #13
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The .303 Jungle Carbines had a reputation as a vicious kicker. I never had one, but a classmate of mine did in the sixties...they were fairly common back then and a very inexpensive surplus rifle. As I understand it that there is enough interest ($$) in SMLE Jungle Carbines that they have been counterfeited (WWII SMLE's cut down and modified to look like an original Jungle Carbine).
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Old November 30, 2020, 02:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
The .303 Jungle Carbines had a reputation as a vicious kicker.
Probably because the Jungle carbine is between a pound and a half and 2lbs lighter than the standard infantry service rifle, and used the same ammunition.

And, yes there were "jungle carbines" created by US wholesaler/retailers to cash in on their popularity compared to the standard issue SMLEs. Possibly more were done as "counterfeits" than were created in Royal Arsenals.
(this was in the decades before milsurps in issue condition were regarded as holy historical relics )

Actual jungle carbines had some metal removed from the receiver to reduce weight. The ones made up for sale usually didn't. The lighter receiver has led to stories of "wandering zero" and questions about their strength.

I've read reports from a number of folks who had a jungle carbine and didn't have any issue with "wandering zero" and the British govt converted some to 7.62mm NATO with no reported failure issues, so judge for yourself...
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Old November 30, 2020, 02:41 PM   #15
T. O'Heir
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"...any soft-nosed hunting ammo in .303 British should be just ducky..." Yep, but if you're not reloading you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo that rifle shoots best. Same as any rifle/ammo.
Think 150's for deer. 180's for everything else. Ammo may not be easy to come by with the Covid Panic though.
No barrel diameter issues. And usually no headspace issues. Unless it's one of the bubba'd No. 4's.
"...vicious kicker..." Yep. At about 7 pounds empty it'll kick you. Same as a 7.62 x 54R Mosin Carbine.
"...metal removed from the receiver..." One of the ways you tell a real No. 5 from a fake.
"...developed as a jungle warfare..." Nope. The development of the No. 5 Rifle had nothing to do with jungles. It was developed for and used by the Paras in W.W. II.
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Old December 3, 2020, 07:32 PM   #16
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I fired some dot N-D-N stuff and got a 6-8" group. Then I fired commercial .303 and got a 2" group. I think any modern .303 hunting bullet will work well; but test first at the range.
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Old December 12, 2020, 03:45 AM   #17
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I found that H4350 works well in my Enfields, some No.4's and a couple of No. 5 Mk1's, a little above the start load. I have been using Sierra Pro Hunter 180 gr. I use Load Books Hogdon data.
I have tried 150 gr. Hornady .312/.303 but never found a good load for my No. 5's
Midway USA just got in some .311/.303 Pro Hunters.

I shoot moose usually under 100 yds. should work on deer.
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Old December 13, 2020, 05:29 PM   #18
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Saw one in a store today for $1200.

I have a No 1 Mk III* and a No 4 Mk I but never got a 5.

If that's what they are going for now, I probably never will
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Old November 19, 2021, 07:42 PM   #19
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Its been about a year, just wandering around old posts. Deerslayer303 did you catch?
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Old January 15, 2022, 09:18 PM   #20
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150 grain flat base,round nose. Will drop a deer at 75 yards in its tracks. Will expand instantly due to the round nose.
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Old January 18, 2022, 09:46 PM   #21
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There is the oft repeated story about the Jungle Carbine and its "wandering zero" if that's a consideration.
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Old January 19, 2022, 08:58 AM   #22
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Politically Correct?

We can't offend all the snowflakes.

It's a rain forest carbine.
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Old January 19, 2022, 09:36 AM   #23
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All Enfields suffer from a bit from a " wandering zero " . The main reason for it being attached to the No 5 is after WWII the army wanted a new semi auto , but the treasury did not want to spent the money and wanted to go with the No 5 . So one of the army's arguments was a wandering zero .
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Old January 19, 2022, 11:20 AM   #24
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The No. 5 was lightened by the removal of metal. This reduced the stiffness of the action. The result was much larger groups on target.
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