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Old November 8, 2022, 04:54 PM   #26
HiBC
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Quote:
A new oprod spring doesn't fix short stroking.
I agree. But...A question. I'm not a Garand Armorer. The tail end of the oprod spring powers the follower. A sluggish follower might not force rounds up through the enbloc clip quickly enough to get stripped by the bolt. Short stroking might be a slight mis diagnosis.

A new op rod spring does not cost much and its easy to try. No harm can come from it. I think I'd try it.
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Old November 8, 2022, 05:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
I agree. But...A question. I'm not a Garand Armorer. The tail end of the oprod spring powers the follower. A sluggish follower might not force rounds up through the enbloc clip quickly enough to get stripped by the bolt. Short stroking might be a slight mis diagnosis.

A new op rod spring does not cost much and its easy to try. No harm can come from it. I think I'd try it.
If the spring is shorter than 19.5" replace it. If not look towards lubrication and the gas system
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Old November 9, 2022, 11:00 AM   #28
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Do you have any more of the PPU ammo you originally shot? Pull a bullet and weigh it. As I recall anything around 150gr should be safe for the op rod. 180gr stuff can cause problems.

PPU makes Garand specific ammo. Headstamp on my stuff bought 4 +/- years ago:

PPU
30-06 SPRG

Other manufacturers like Federal put M1 on the headstamp to designate M1 Garand specific ammo. PPU does not so unless you have the boxes the ammo came in, you won't really know for sure.
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Old November 9, 2022, 03:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by veprdude View Post
180gr stuff can cause problems.
Not in a properly running gun with grease and good springs.
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Old November 10, 2022, 01:36 AM   #30
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Better write the CMP and tell them they're full of crap. Why play with fire on this one?
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Old November 10, 2022, 07:53 AM   #31
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Better write the CMP and tell them they're full of crap. Why play with fire on this one?
Not playing with fire...playing with science.

Just because people repeat myths and people accept them without challenge doesn't mean they are true.

CMPs "warning" response was written by lawyers and people that don't really understand what they wrote.
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Old November 10, 2022, 10:13 AM   #32
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Some folks mock Wisdom as Myth.
You do what you want with your Garand and I'll feed mine my way.

I don't have any problem with duplicating original ammo specs. Powder approx 4895, RE-15,Varget,etc breech pressure 50.000 Copper Units of Pressure,and frankly I can't tell you the spec for port pressure but burn rate and bullet weight factor in. General guideline is 150 to 175 gr bullets. There are limits and ignoring them CAN mess up your op rod.

Our Mr Bart has a wealth of experience from the US Navy Shooting Team. As I recall he has mentioned using heavier bullets in the Garand. Maybe 190 gr Matchkings. I'm sure they worked fine for him.

What is different for me is I do not have the resources to find the limits. I don't have a bin of spare op rods. I don't have armorers to support me. I figure on making my op rod last me this lifetime.

For my purposes, a 168 gr BTHP at about 2700 will do just fine.

I don't need to baby it but I dont need to beat it up.
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Old November 10, 2022, 08:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Not playing with fire...playing with science.
As I see it, you're not playing with science. You are playing with language.

The point was raised,
Quote:
180gr stuff can cause problems.
to which the reply was...
Quote:
Not in a properly running gun with grease and good springs.
and, as a blanket statement, I don't believe that is true. You are playing the language, by not including enough additional information to prevent misunderstandings and misconceptions.

you are right when you state there is no limit to what bullet weights can be used, HOWEVER you are leaving off the rather important fact that NOT EVERY load in every bullet weight is ok in the Garand.

The problem is, and the misunderstandings come from not enough information. Sure, there are some 180 gr loads that can be run in a Garand, and also there are some that should NOT be, no matter how properly the gun is sprung and lubed.

Now, the general prohibition about heavy bullets is sound advice, when it is aimed at most folks, and especially when those folks are going to be using factory loaded ammo. One can, with research and care, create loads for the Garand that use 180, even 190gr bullets and do not harm the mechanism.

BUT, these aren't the commercial sporting ammo loads from FedRemChester you find for sale everywhere.

So, for the general shooter, the advice to stay away from the heavy bullets and stick with M1 & M2 GI ball or reproductions is sound advice. People repeat that advice, because it is what they have been taught, and have seen it is true, 180s (or others) CAN cause problems. Because unless that ammo has been specifically tailored for the Garand, it generally will cause problems, and the usual commercial stuff IS NOT specifically tailored for the Garand.

When someone disputes that, and says, its not a problem, it will be fine, WITHOUT clarifying further, THAT is a problem, and shoots your credibility right in the butt. No matter how expert you are, and what you actually know, making statements that are patently false on the face of them, does not make you sound like you know what you are talking about.
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Old November 10, 2022, 09:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
Some folks mock Wisdom as Myth.
You do what you want with your Garand and I'll feed mine my way.
There are limits and ignoring them CAN mess up your op rod.
people keep saying that but never support that claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post

For my purposes, a 168 gr BTHP at about 2700 will do just fine.

I don't need to baby it but I don't need to beat it up.
Well so far it doesn't appear that much commercial ammo if any will "beat it up".
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Old November 10, 2022, 09:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
As I see it, you're not playing with science. You are playing with language.
Nope still using facts not language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
The point was raised,

to which the reply was...


and, as a blanket statement, I don't believe that is true. You are playing the language, by not including enough additional information to prevent misunderstandings and misconceptions.

you are right when you state there is no limit to what bullet weights can be used, HOWEVER you are leaving off the rather important fact that NOT EVERY load in every bullet weight is ok in the Garand.

The problem is, and the misunderstandings come from not enough information. Sure, there are some 180 gr loads that can be run in a Garand, and also there are some that should NOT be, no matter how properly the gun is sprung and lubed.
Which ones should NOT be shot in a garand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Now, the general prohibition about heavy bullets is sound advice, when it is aimed at most folks, and especially when those folks are going to be using factory loaded ammo. One can, with research and care, create loads for the Garand that use 180, even 190gr bullets and do not harm the mechanism.

BUT, these aren't the commercial sporting ammo loads from FedRemChester you find for sale everywhere.
Your claim is the "fedremchester 180s" are unsafe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
So, for the general shooter, the advice to stay away from the heavy bullets and stick with M1 & M2 GI ball or reproductions is sound advice.
Actually no reason to stay away from heavier bullets...unless you don't like recoil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
People repeat that advice, because it is what they have been taught, and have seen it is true, 180s (or others) CAN cause problems. Because unless that ammo has been specifically tailored for the Garand, it generally will cause problems, and the usual commercial stuff IS NOT specifically tailored for the Garand.
How do you KNOW it causes problems? Because if it's operating pressures are similar to milsurp then it can't be any more dangerous than milsurp ammo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
When someone disputes that, and says, its not a problem, it will be fine, WITHOUT clarifying further, THAT is a problem, and shoots your credibility right in the butt. No matter how expert you are, and what you actually know, making statements that are patently false on the face of them, does not make you sound like you know what you are talking about.
What statements have I made that are patently false?
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Old November 11, 2022, 01:45 PM   #36
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Let's drop the 180 grain bullet discussion. That's throwing in a whole new dimension and if you want, start a thread on just that. Back on track with getting a garand going.
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Old November 12, 2022, 07:06 AM   #37
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The op still has not had anyone else fire the rifle to try
and duplicate the same miss feeds or jambing.

Different people will hold and shoot a rifle differently, this is true
since a group will shift impact for different shooters.
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Old November 12, 2022, 07:13 AM   #38
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One more time.

Your rifle is exhibiting several issues. The worn barrel and weak ejection are indicative of either lack of lubrication or wear in the gas system.

If this is a recent rack grade (it looks like it) those tend to have some issues.

We can all give you 30 different things to try but you would be better off sending it to a garand smith...

PM if you want more info.
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Old November 12, 2022, 09:16 AM   #39
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How about a check of gas cylinder bore diameter as well as piston diameter? Need these parts to be the right sizes in order for gas system to function properly.
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Old November 12, 2022, 09:58 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by tango1niner View Post
How about a check of gas cylinder bore diameter as well as piston diameter? Need these parts to be the right sizes in order for gas system to function properly.
Unless you have the gages/tools to do this...

It's better to send it to a specialist
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Old November 12, 2022, 10:36 AM   #41
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Any machinist or toolmaker worth his salt has all that is needed.

An 0"-1" outside mic and telescoping gages is all that is necessary.

Find a local machine shop, bring gas cylinder and op rod to them, get bore and piston sizes and verify they are not the problem.

Pretty simple and shouldn't take more than 20 minutes.

It's a place to start with no guessing...

Piston corners should be square and not rounded.

Last edited by tango1niner; November 12, 2022 at 10:52 AM.
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Old November 12, 2022, 04:36 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tango1niner View Post
Any machinist or toolmaker worth his salt has all that is needed.

An 0"-1" outside mic and telescoping gages is all that is necessary.

Find a local machine shop, bring gas cylinder and op rod to them, get bore and piston sizes and verify they are not the problem.

Pretty simple and shouldn't take more than 20 minutes.

It's a place to start with no guessing...

Piston corners should be square and not rounded.
Or just send the rifle for a 100% checkup to someone who does it for a living.
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Old November 12, 2022, 05:56 PM   #43
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Some folks like to work on and fix their firearms and with help from others can learn how and many times be successful. Garands are not rocket science...

But of course, you are correct...
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Old November 12, 2022, 06:58 PM   #44
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Call up the folks at Fulton Armory, they specialize in these old warhorses. I have used them for rebuilding several Garand parts.
https://www.fulton-armory.com/M1-Garand.aspx
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