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Old July 8, 2022, 12:41 PM   #1
Shadow9mm
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Leupold Rifleman Scope Rings on a Henry big boy

So just used a set of Leupold rifleman rings though I would relate my experience and some info I had to dig for.

Configuration.
Henry big boy, steel side gate, 20in 44 mag.
EGW Big boy picatinny rail
Leupold Rifleman Rings, Medium.
Leupold XV-1 2-7x33 scope

I contacted Leupold to verify the rings were adequate for my 44 mag rifle, they said they were.

I got the rings and went to mount them, and the instructions did not list torque specs, they just said "tighten until secure" I did some reading online and could not find much of the way on instructions. Found several forums that had, what tuned out to be, partially correct information, so I contacted Leupold again.

Per Leupold for the Leupold rifleman scope rings
Ring base screws 14 in-lb
Ring screws 26 in-lb

Other notes
I don't like buck horn style sights. I looked into other options and peep sights were pricey. I decided on a red dot for the good field of view and focus shooting both eyes open, as well as good dusk and dawn capability. However it proved too imprecise while working hand loads up so I decided to mount a scope I had around. I went with medium rings as I did not want to remove the rear sight.

The rings themselves seemed to be of good quality. They matte anodizing, I presume, had some bite to it along with the torque specs it should not be going anywhere. The scope wanted to stay in place without tightening anything down. As long as they hold up under recoil (I torqued and used blue locktite) they should be some great rings.

And a pic, otherwise it didn't happen.

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File Type: jpg Mounted.jpg (441.9 KB, 131 views)
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Last edited by Shadow9mm; July 8, 2022 at 01:11 PM.
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Old July 9, 2022, 12:55 PM   #2
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ok, now how high off the stock do you have to lift your head in order to use that scope setup??

Also, what is "blue locktite"??

Loctite products cover a huge range of sealants, with several different grades in each color group. Loctite products range from "comes out with a regular screwdriver" to "requires heat to remove" all the way to "never comes out unless you cut it out" grade stuff.

Using loctite (or any threadlocker) when you don't know you need it, is only a small waste of $, but using the wrong one for your application can cost a LOT more in terms of time, effort, $, and frustration.

I once wound up getting a fairly decent scope thrown into the deal on a used rifle (without extra cost) because the owner had loctited the scope ring screws and couldn't get the scope out. (fairly cheap horizontally split rings with allen head screws. He stripped the allen head trying to unscrew them.
So, he just threw in the scope as part of the deal. I cut the screws and mounted the scope on something else...
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Old July 10, 2022, 12:04 AM   #3
Shadow9mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
ok, now how high off the stock do you have to lift your head in order to use that scope setup??

Also, what is "blue locktite"??

Loctite products cover a huge range of sealants, with several different grades in each color group. Loctite products range from "comes out with a regular screwdriver" to "requires heat to remove" all the way to "never comes out unless you cut it out" grade stuff.

Using loctite (or any threadlocker) when you don't know you need it, is only a small waste of $, but using the wrong one for your application can cost a LOT more in terms of time, effort, $, and frustration.

I once wound up getting a fairly decent scope thrown into the deal on a used rifle (without extra cost) because the owner had loctited the scope ring screws and couldn't get the scope out. (fairly cheap horizontally split rings with allen head screws. He stripped the allen head trying to unscrew them.
So, he just threw in the scope as part of the deal. I cut the screws and mounted the scope on something else...
Blue is the medium duty. I dont remember the number. But it helps things not vibrate loose, but lets the fastner be removed with hand tools. Usually a screw driver or allen wrench with normal pressure will remove it without issue. Just feels a little gummed up, but never stuck.

I always torque and locktite my bases and rings now. Even properly torquing them, i have had them vibrate loose on me over time in the past. I want to put it in place, level it, and not worry about it moving.

I can still get my cheek on the stock. It is higher than i would prefer, but nothing too crazy. Shot it today and it wasnt bad. Considering getting a stock pad with a riser, but i don't think i will need it. Gonna shoot it a couple more times to get a better feel for if i will need it or not.
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Old July 10, 2022, 07:14 PM   #4
stagpanther
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I went with a similar set-up for my Henry 45-70--like you I started out with higher rings so I could keep the buckhorn sight on but switched to lower quick-release leupold rings and removed the buckhorn sight altogether--mostly cause the sight leaf would jump off the notched elevation ladder under the rather stout recoil. I actually got some pretty good shots with just the stock irons to around 150 yds; but I would have to readjust the rear sight after each shot and the scope made follow-ups much faster. The Wyatt Erpp wanabees might not approve of the scope--doesn't bother me any.

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File Type: jpg IMG_7278.jpg (123.8 KB, 69 views)
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Old July 10, 2022, 07:30 PM   #5
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Great looking rifle! I personally feel like people under estimate Wyatt Erpp and all the cowboys from the old west. I feel that if they had had access to a good durable reliable scope I think they would have put one on their rifle as soon as they could save up enough for one.

I personally feel the same way about red dots on pistols. I have shot iron sighs exclusively for years. I had a chance to try one of our instructors pistols with a red dot during firearms in-service this year. I consider myself a good shot and always qualify without issue. But that red dot gave me a better field of view, I was able to cut my group sizes in half, and shoot faster.

Just the fact that the cowboys went to lever guns instead of using the old single shots shows they were big fans of effective technology.
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Old July 10, 2022, 08:34 PM   #6
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Thanks (your's is nice too, I would've liked an all-steel but was't available at the time)--I've had several Henrys and this one is the best of the bunch, though not necessarily something I want to shoot all day. I'm a big fan of the 44 mag in a lever--have two 44 mag rossi 92's--how well does your's shoot?
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Old July 10, 2022, 08:55 PM   #7
Shadow9mm
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Im fighting with my hand loads, long story. Managed to get a 0.55in group, so about 1.06moa group at 50yds yesterday with my friends loads, 280g wfn in 44spl case with an off books load of h110. So its nice to know what its capable of. But so far i have been around 2-3 moa with my loads. Im gonna duplicate his loads so see if i can get the same results.
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Old July 11, 2022, 02:58 AM   #8
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Oh yeah--I saw your post on the handloading thread about that. My rossis really like 24.3 grs. H110 load driving 240 xtp...your load looks a bit anemic. I think the Henry might have a faster twist than the rossi so 240 grs is my sweet spot for bullets. .55" sounds pretty darn good--considering it's .430 diameter that must be pretty close to a single bughole.
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Old July 11, 2022, 05:54 PM   #9
Shadow9mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
Oh yeah--I saw your post on the handloading thread about that. My rossis really like 24.3 grs. H110 load driving 240 xtp...your load looks a bit anemic. I think the Henry might have a faster twist than the rossi so 240 grs is my sweet spot for bullets. .55" sounds pretty darn good--considering it's .430 diameter that must be pretty close to a single bughole.
at 50yds, Pretty happy with it. got my friends data. I can duplicate it except for the primers. hoping it will still shoot the same.

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Old July 12, 2022, 12:48 PM   #10
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You might consider a slip on or lace on cheekpiece to raise your stock's comb height to something better suited for a scope. I've done that, and it works acceptably well, for me.

Personally, I think your quest for bolt action accuracy from your lever gun is chasing a dream, but if that's your dream, chase away, and be happy doing it. You might, possibly, even get it!
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Old July 12, 2022, 08:29 PM   #11
Shadow9mm
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
You might consider a slip on or lace on cheekpiece to raise your stock's comb height to something better suited for a scope. I've done that, and it works acceptably well, for me.

Personally, I think your quest for bolt action accuracy from your lever gun is chasing a dream, but if that's your dream, chase away, and be happy doing it. You might, possibly, even get it!
I have been shopping the lace on cheek pieces, still looking around.

Quest for bolt action accuracy in a lever gun... sounds treacherous and exciting.

I suppose that depends on how you define bolt action accuracy. Its better these days than it used to be. To me, now, that means 1moa out of a budget bolt gun with match ammo, or hand loads.

I really dont know what the standard is on lever guns, this is still rather new to me. From my reading i was expecting or rather hoping for 2moa, with good tuned hand loads.

So far the gun has shot 3-4 moa, much worse with the unstable loads, but im not counting those. But thats still plenty good for deer at a max of 100yds.

I was actually shocked to get an almost 1moa group. I feel like its a fluke, unless i can repeat it a couple more times.

Im dont feel im questing for bolt action accuracy. I may be wrong. Im hoping for 2 moa, if that is unrealistic please tell me what i should be looking for. But at this point i feel like i have been fighting this gun and or the loads for months now, i would take any kind of consistency at this point as a place to start working from.

Been doing a lot of problems solving. Hoping to finish testing in the next week or so. If i got things right, my bullets should stop flying sideways, and i can start tuning a little bit.
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Old July 12, 2022, 11:50 PM   #12
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Some points to consider;

The past when a 1MOA rifle was a "pearl of great price" something sought for, and IF found not to be given away lightly.

And to be clear, there are no "official" or recognized standards of what a rife should do (outside of military specs) there is only what the majority of that make, model, and caliber rifles actually do, and whether or not it is adequate for its intended use.

When and where I grew up, for big game, that meant "minute of deer", and gosh, we even hunted whitetails with shotguns!!

a 2MOA deer rifle was a good thing, a 4MOA one would still fill your freezer.
Now, if you're shooting woodchucks at 300yds, you wanted and worked hard to get something better than 2MOA, and if you eventually found a combination of rifle and ammo tinkering that shot MOA or even less, you were rather blessed.

THere has been a significant change in rifle and ammo accuracy in recent decades, and what was once a great thing is now more often considered a reasonable minimum starting point.

Now, look at your specific rifle and ammo. You've got a modrn variant of a century and a half old rifle design, one that was never originally intended to be a "one hole shooter" but be minute of deer or better, out to the easily usable range of its cartridge.

Its modern steels with modern manufacturing tolerances, which gives you a huge advantage, but compared to a bolt action, the traditional type lever gun has design features that work against maximum possible accuracy.

There's a magazine tube (and foreend?) hanging off the barrel. Comparatively speaking, the reciever is long, and thin, and locks up at the rear, which means it can flex more than other designs.
Original sights are a moot point since you've scoped it, but the original trigger, can be anywhere between horrid to not too bad, but its not made to be a precision trigger

NONE of this means you rifle won't shoot well, what it means is they usually don't shoot AS well as other, different designs.

Getting 1MOA from a traditional lever gun shooting a pistol rounds is something to strive for, if you feel like trying. If you actually get it, the accuracy gods have smiled upon you. Thank them and enjoy shooting. But if you never get it don't feel you've been cheated. You haven't been.
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Old July 13, 2022, 10:36 AM   #13
Shadow9mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Some points to consider;

The past when a 1MOA rifle was a "pearl of great price" something sought for, and IF found not to be given away lightly.

And to be clear, there are no "official" or recognized standards of what a rife should do (outside of military specs) there is only what the majority of that make, model, and caliber rifles actually do, and whether or not it is adequate for its intended use.

When and where I grew up, for big game, that meant "minute of deer", and gosh, we even hunted whitetails with shotguns!!

a 2MOA deer rifle was a good thing, a 4MOA one would still fill your freezer.
Now, if you're shooting woodchucks at 300yds, you wanted and worked hard to get something better than 2MOA, and if you eventually found a combination of rifle and ammo tinkering that shot MOA or even less, you were rather blessed.

THere has been a significant change in rifle and ammo accuracy in recent decades, and what was once a great thing is now more often considered a reasonable minimum starting point.

Now, look at your specific rifle and ammo. You've got a modrn variant of a century and a half old rifle design, one that was never originally intended to be a "one hole shooter" but be minute of deer or better, out to the easily usable range of its cartridge.

Its modern steels with modern manufacturing tolerances, which gives you a huge advantage, but compared to a bolt action, the traditional type lever gun has design features that work against maximum possible accuracy.

There's a magazine tube (and foreend?) hanging off the barrel. Comparatively speaking, the reciever is long, and thin, and locks up at the rear, which means it can flex more than other designs.
Original sights are a moot point since you've scoped it, but the original trigger, can be anywhere between horrid to not too bad, but its not made to be a precision trigger

NONE of this means you rifle won't shoot well, what it means is they usually don't shoot AS well as other, different designs.

Getting 1MOA from a traditional lever gun shooting a pistol rounds is something to strive for, if you feel like trying. If you actually get it, the accuracy gods have smiled upon you. Thank them and enjoy shooting. But if you never get it don't feel you've been cheated. You haven't been.
I feel like, while not impossible, 1moa is a BIG ask for a lever gun. A consistent 2moa is what i have sights set on and that is still asking a lot. While my group was exceptional, it was one 3 shot group, and i consider it a fluke, but it did happen. Gonna duplicate my friend load and see if i can repeat it, but if that happens i will be shocked.
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Old July 13, 2022, 06:32 PM   #14
Rob228
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Ranger Point makes a dovetail plug that fits the contour of the Henry barrel if you are looking to take the buckhorn sight off, been really happy with mine. It fits loose but is intended to be used with loctite, you don't need to hammer it in and after the loctite cures its flush and not going anywhere.

https://rangerpointstore.com/rifle-b...filler-blanks/

They also make aperture sights that fit in that dovetail.

https://rangerpointstore.com/replace...erture-spring/
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