9mm instead of 5.56 for HD

[FireForged]

Also, putting on muffs or earplugs is likewise used as "evidence" of premeditation, and that argument is used to negate "self defense" all too often in court.

Please site one case where an otherwise lawful use of force was deemed unlawful because someone used earmuffs or earplugs.

someone might say that having a gun (at all) is premeditated or that taking self defense classes is premeditated. Lots of things can be said to be "premeditated". At what point is a supposed premeditation considered to be criminal?

[Mulebuk Mojo]

Originally Posted by FireForged

At what point is a supposed premeditation considered to be criminal?

Whenever a clever prosecutor deems it is and can convince the 12 dummies on the jury it is, hand picked because they are dummies.

This is all political theater, they can't touch the second amendment so let's make it difficult to own a gun.

When I took my CCW class a few years back they brought a lawyer in who put the fear of God into us by saying everything you think is right and lawful goes out the window in a court of law. He went on to say if you ever have to use your gun it will most likely be the worst day of your life.

If you don't end up in prison the system will allow the relatives to sue you for everything you own, thereby dissuading others owning a gun.


Do you see how this all works.

[TunnelRat]

The question here though isn’t as vague as self defense in general but the addition of hearing protection crossing the line from no conviction to conviction. I think many here understand that the legal implications of using a firearm for self defense are broad and uncomfortable, but if the argument is that every DA out there is out to pin all gun owners against the wall, then it should be possible to come up with an example for this particular case of hearing protection.

I’d add that some states have added civil suit protection for people found innocent of criminal charges, as in those lawsuits can’t be brought forward. This is in no way all states and likely has its limitations so knowing your state laws is important, but it can at least help to some extent. There is also “concealed carry insurance”, which offers legal coverage up to a certain amount under an insurance policy for civil suit protection. This has to be purchased by the gun owner, but some like the idea.


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[Mulebuk Mojo]

Provided you have the money. And I for one am not buying into the fear mongering of getting insurance.
Some of the biggest r ats are in the so called gun community, selling fear, bad training and advice along with clever innuendoes.

I'm claiming physically feeble

[TunnelRat]

I can understand someone not wanting the insurance. It does seem a bit contradictory to me though to call it fear mongering when your previous post seems to convey a very bleak prospect with the odds deliberately stacked against you. That post itself would seem to suggest the fear isn’t entirely unfounded.


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[Mulebuk Mojo]

What part did you miss ? It doesn't matter if you have insurance you are still going to lose if it's not cut and dry. And most aren't.
All you are trying to do is stay alive by carrying a gun.

[JustJake]

The younger crowd out of the military over the last 25 years or so came out with the mind-set of an AR and of course those who came up on video games. The other big thing is they are afraid of recoil.

Yep.

In addition to not knowing much they didn't hear or see on a video game or a YouTube vid, these kids (Millennials) are scared witless of real recoil ... Whereas us 'Boomers grew up shooting rifles or shotguns that kicked and had no muzzle brakes; 12ga shottys, rifles in 30-06, 300 & 375 Magnum, etc.

Sure, hand a MillenGen type your 5.56 AR, and he'll smile. Hand him an M1 Garand and he gets the shakes. Take it back and then hand him a .300 Weatherby Mk V with a pencil barrel, and he'll take off runnin' faster than a 'yote with its tail on fire.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by JustJake

Yep.

In addition to not knowing much they didn't hear or see on a video game or a YouTube vid, these kids (Millennials) are scared witless of real recoil ... Whereas us 'Boomers grew up shooting rifles or shotguns that kicked and had no muzzle brakes; 12ga shottys, rifles in 30-06, 300 & 375 Magnum, etc.

Sure, hand a MillenGen type your 5.56 AR, and he'll smile. Hand him an M1 Garand and he gets the shakes. Take it back and then hand him a .300 Weatherby Mk V with a pencil barrel, and he'll take off runnin' faster than a 'yote with its tail on fire.

I know a lot of millennials that own M1 Garands, Kar 98s, Mosins, the list goes on. They shoot them regularly and enjoy them. In fact they even specifically schedule events at local ranges to get together as a group and enjoy shooting them and the history of them. My best friend and I are both millennials by virtue of birth year (millennials are as old as 40 by definition). My first handgun was a 4” Model 19 and his was a SIG P220. 357 magnum and 45 ACP. We spent loads of time in a rock pit shooting 3” shells out of his Mossberg when we were young and bored.

My experience is stereotypes are great at reinforcing our preconceived notions, but not always indicative of reality.


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[JustJake]

The prosecutor was able to paint it that he used aggressive force that was unnecessary and his overworked underpaid and simply don't care public defender never picked up on it that what he did was in fact the correct procedure.
When he was sentence the Judge told him I hate to do this, but I have no choice, he knew what the prosecutor had done.
72 years old, whole life on the straight and narrow, worked, retired paid his tax's, played the game by all the rules etc.
25 years to life, a dead man walking.

Lesson right there: don't go cheap on your defense lawyer, if it ever gets that far.

Another reason for lobbying for the passage of broad Castle Laws and Stand Yer Frickin' Ground doctrines (wherever you have a legal right to be), and ditching the "Duty to Retreat" lunacy still embedded older civilian defense laws. So politically ambitious anti-gun/anti-SD prosecutors can't get away with this obvious travesty of justice.

[Willie Lowman]

Sure, hand a MillenGen type your 5.56 AR, and he'll smile. Hand him an M1 Garand and he gets the shakes. Take it back and then hand him a .300 Weatherby Mk V with a pencil barrel, and he'll take off runnin' faster than a 'yote with its tail on fire.

Sir, I am a millennial. If you would like to provide all the .300 Weatherby ammo I would be happy to make you wish you hadn't said that.

[FireForged]

Painting an entire age group with any particular sentiment regarding recoil does not seem all the realistic without some significant evidence to back that up. I see young people (25 to 35) shooting 303's, 308's, 7.5 and 762x54 all the time.

[JohnKSa]

Hoohkay. I think we're done with this one...