Turkey stock + trap/skeet shooting

[TrueBlue711]

This will be a silly question for many of you, and even to me, but I never asked the question in my life because it seems like a silly idea. But why wouldn't you use a turkey stock (i.e stock with vertical grip. see pic) on your shotgun at a trap/skeet range? What are the big disadvantages?

Here's why I ask: My wife has a Rem 870 shotgun. She doesn't hunt ducks, dove or other flying birds but she loves to turkey hunt. She also loves to shoot trap (she's not huge into skeet). I've brought this up in a older thread, but she's short, so I have her gun set up with a short youth stock. Even so, she still has to reach out with almost a locked elbow to grab the forend. This is why she doesn't shoot skeet or flying birds since she can't get a follow up shot in quickly. I found the forend (see pic) that is enlongated and will make it easier for her to reach out and pump the gun. I can't find the forend by itself and it comes with that turkey stock. So I'm debating about setting her gun up for turkey permanently since that's all she likes to hunt. But would it screw up her trap game? Would she be ridiculed horribly at the range to where she won't want to go anymore?

[T. O'Heir]

A pistol grip stocked shotgun(has nothing to do with turkeys either) gives you more control than a regular stock. Can't see it making any difference one way or the other for target shooting.
"...still has to reach out..." Sounds like the LOP is still too long for her. You really need to discuss all this with her. It's her gun, not your's and you get no say in anything to do with it.

[FITASC]

See if your local trap club has a knowledgeable person who knows ALL of the aspects of shotgun fit (and there's a LOT more than length of pull) to help her out.
You could also get her a semi for skeet or other pursuits.

[TrueBlue711]

Sounds like the LOP is still too long for her.

The stock she has is literally the shortest stock I can find. 12" LOP. If you know of one that is less than 12", please point it to me.

You really need to discuss all this with her. It's her gun, not your's and you get no say in anything to do with it.

I get that, trust me. I never make any changes to her guns without a discussion first.

You could also get her a semi for skeet or other pursuits.

I am looking down that avenue for her as well. Finances are preventing new firearm purchases at the moment. Maybe come tax return season.

[playin' hookey]

I doubt that stock would be a major impediment for trap shooting, any more than any other field gun which is not a dedicated trap gun, ie shoots high, long barrel, heavy. Whether it would bring ridicule by fellow trap shooters depends entirely on the type of people with whom she shoots. At my club it would not be a problem.

[FITASC]

When you are shooting moving targets, unlike turkey or deer hunting, you really do not want to have a grip that is almost vertical as it locks your elbow downward inhibiting free swinging movement after the targets. You mentioned your wife not liking skeet because of the longer reach. Most shotgun target shooters (and wing shooters) WANT a long reach with their off hand - it aids in swinging.

As for costs of semis, there is always the used market at your local gun club where she should be able to try them out before buying. A used Beretta 303, 390, 391 should be very reasonable.

[natman]

Turkeys are more or less stationary targets. Trap and skeet require a smooth swing and I suspect you'll find a shotgun with a protruding grip is much harder to swing than a conventional stock.

[Virginian]

Ever think that maybe the different characteristics that have developed for shotguns used for different pursuits over all these years developed for a reason ?

[Jim Watson]

What forend does her gun have now? I have seen many pumps with extension forends but also a lot with "corncob" forends little more than pump handles.

The stock she has is literally the shortest stock I can find. 12" LOP. If you know of one that is less than 12", please point it to me.

Hard to imagine a trap club without a contact for a stock fitter or at least somebody who could shorten the buttstock and fit a recoil pad at whatever length of pull suited her.

[TrueBlue711]

What forend does her gun have now?

Currently, she has a basic Hogue forend on. Texture is nice, but the forend on the pic I posted on here origionally is much longer.

Hard to imagine a trap club without a contact for a stock fitter or at least somebody who could shorten the buttstock and fit a recoil pad at whatever length of pull suited her.

Granted, I haven't pursued this idea. But the LOP isn't really the problem. It's actually good at 12". The pump is just too far forward. Sure, making the LOP even shorter will help her reach the pump, but her cheek will be resting on her thumb if it's much shorter. She needs a combo of short LOP (which is pretty much covered with her current stock) and a long forend.



Talked with the wife about it last night and here's the plan. I'll get her the stock/forend combo I first pictured, but only use the forend. She likes her current stock. The "turkey stock" will go into a storage bin and will swap out during turkey seasons.
Thanks for the replies! FITASC and natman had the most logical answers to "why not use a vertical grip stock on trap/skeet" in regards to the swing.
I'm still going to pursue a semi-auto for her for those flying birds and skeet.

[243winxb]

I shot skeet with this, just for fun. The choke and shot size is what matters most.

[stuckinthe60s]

pump forearms are long so that it can be pumped. most semi's and pumps have long forearms to incase the mag tube.
try a different design gun, like a sbs or o&u, where the forearm is closer to the receiver.

[stuckinthe60s]

fyi, the pic you posted is actually a pronounced thumbhole stock. a true pistol grip stock is one where the bottom of the pistol grip is not attached to the stock.
pistol grip stocks are meant to be used on shotguns that are aimed, not swung....i/e: slug guns or riot guns.

[OzeanJaeger]

As has been mentioned pistol grips swing…terribly. One outing pass shooting with one and you’ll be cured. You don’t want your support arm fully straightened though. That is a problem.

My wife shoots a 20ga youth model that fits her. They’re very cheap used. A shorter stock is probably not the answer if the gun is simply too large for her frame.

[Ricklin]

The game of trap has not changed much at all. The 27 yd. line was added in what.....1950's?? ol Arnold Riegger (sp) The game is very very old.

My 1918 LC Smith is a competitive SBT on today's trap fields. The game has not changed. The guns have devloped for a very very long time.

You don't have to shoot doubles trap is plenty challenging W/O doubles.

Look at the old Model 12 Winchester, once the king of the trap line. The trap grade had an extended forearm. The field grade had the corncob. Why?

Length of pull...you want a long gun relatively for the trap line, smooth swing.

A turkey gun and a trap gun are at opposite ends of the shotgun spectrum with regard to the stock especially. Maybe some wunderkind out there can shoot trap well with a gun that does not fit. For us mere mortals...proper fit is the only route to high scores in trap.

[stuckinthe60s]

look at it this way.
if your kid was trying out for baseball, would you buy him a basketball uniform?

if youre going to let her shoot trap, just go buy a real trap gun, have it fit, and she'll blend in just fine.
never could understand how people skimp on a relatively expensive sport. if youre even looking at trap, just do it right. spend money and join the crowd that has been down the (all the other gizmos) road and have fun. you don't go test drive jags or porches unless you already planned to afford one.
same with the sport of trap and skeet.
you never lose money on a good investment in a good gun. cheap gun? you lose every time.

[B.L.E.]

Ljutic once made a trap gun with a pistol grip, nicknamed the "space gun", so I assume a pistol grip would be ok in trap. It was an upside down bolt action that loaded from the bottom. It would probably work on turkeys too.



You might check out the Browning BT99 micro trap gun, it's built to fit junior shooters.

[TrueBlue711]

never could understand how people skimp on a relatively expensive sport. if youre even looking at trap, just do it right. spend money and join the crowd that has been down the (all the other gizmos) road and have fun.

Ok, I have to weigh back in to disagree with this comment. I'm not sure if this was the intent, but it came off as "you need to spend the $$ to join the elitist group of trap shooting." This is the kind of thinking that scares away new shooters. Most people aren't retired and healty on cash, so they start off with a gun in their budget.
Trap is not an expensive sport, unless you make it. You can shoot trap with a Rem 870 (an affordable gun, not a cheap gun) just fine. I've broken 25/25 I don't know how many times using what some would consider a "cheap gun" and the $5 Federal or Winchester shells from Walmart.
Also, my wife likes to trap shoot, but she doesn't pursue it. I shoot about once every week or two. She comes along maybe 25% of the time. She enjoys it, but would rather have the money for a new gun spent on something else, like a new kitchen table or dresser, etc.

[FITASC]

Trap can be shot with an H&R single shot if you want. (I wouldn't as the recoil would be brutal).

ANY well-FITTING gun that can fir 1 for singles or two for doubles can be used. Barrels should be longer than your typical turkey gun; the shooter needs to be able to use their hips, legs, elbows and shoulders freely to move the gun - which is one of the downsides of the AR-style vertical pistol grip.
The gun is the least cost if you shoot often and long enough. Ammo and targets will FAR exceed any gun - even the real expensive Kreighoff, Perazzi, Ljutic, Seitz, Kolar, etc.

[stuckinthe60s]

true....your wife deserves better than a cheap gun with built in kick. point...well built guns that cost more money, absorb more recoil by design and can be worked on to improve performance.
cheaper guns can only go so far and youre stuck with what you get.
trust me, a cheap gun has a better chance of scaring off the shooter...than a club where good guns are found.
I don't know your intent. whether her shooting is going to be a tosser in the back yard and youre calling it trap, or if its serious trap on a bonified range.
none the less, the gun she shows up with will tell a lot about you. if club members see a cheaper gun, they'll assume youre not going to be around for the long haul. consequently, they wont invest as much time in you or your wife as to giving advice.
and rest assure, just like I am, one of the first things they'll say is...get a better gun. not to join some secret handshake society... but rather, so she wont suffer and blame the sport as being too harsh. so, i just answered your last question in your first post.
i can shoot cheap guns. and i do. i also can shoot nicer guns. and i do. i don't limit myself and i explore all options to choose whats best.
for a wife? my wife shoots a comfortable gun that cost a little more, and one that has a reputation of not kicking her teeth out.
sorry to say, but historically, an 870 kicks. i didn't write the history books on that fact. about a million owners did.
I only speak out of experience, and im assuming that's what youre looking for by posting on an open forum.
its my opinion and I stick to it. hope it helps.

[Ricklin]

Don't kid yourself, trap is an expensive pursuit.

Figure about 5 bucks a round for shells, and 5 bucks a round for birds. Now figure 100 rounds is about average for a practice session.

That's just practice, go registered trap and expenses climb. I love to shoot trap, took me about 3 months of a hundred rounds per Sunday session to break my first honest 25. 23s and 24s don't count.......not from the 16 anyway.

So 40 bucks a Sunday X 12 = 480.00 Perhaps that is cheap to some...it's all relative I suppose. That was just 3 months not counting, gun, gas, lunches, etc.

Trap is a game of perfection, and perfection is never cheap.

[TrueBlue711]

Don't kid yourself, trap is an expensive pursuit.

I meant to say, compared to other shooting sports, trap shooting is not expensive. For me at least. I shoot rifle and pistol more than I shoot shotgun. A round of trap/skeet costs, like you said, about $10-$12 a round total. A round of either can last around 30 min (give or take 10 min, depending on how many are shooting with you). Spend 30 min shooting an AR, I spent probably double that in ammo alone. Everything is realitive.

trust me, a cheap gun has a better chance of scaring off the shooter...than a club where good guns are found.

You're right, for new shooters who don't own a gun yet. I used to be treasurer at a skeet/trap range at my last base and shot and/or worked there 2-3 times a week. What really ticked me off was seeing new shooters who just bought a pump action shotgun getting harrassed by the avid shooters who have been shooting there for decades. Comments like "you're shooting a pump action here? You'll never hit anything with that" and whatnot (if they were tactical, short barreled home defense shotguns, I'd understand. But they weren't). May seem harmless, but I normally don't see those new shooters come back after that happens. They may not realize it, but they were scaring away business. I had to talk to those shooters about it and if they did it again, I kicked them off the range for the day. Thankfully, that didn't happen often.

So that's why I'm a bit defensive about comments regarding you have to own certain shotguns to shoot at trap/skeet ranges. A lot of people are just casual shooters who want to shoot for fun using what they got, not for competition or getting that elusive 25/25.

[stuckinthe60s]

you were a treasurer of a skeet and trap range, and youre asking us our opinion on an 870 for your wife?

did I miss something?

its not about harassing people. its about steering people in the right direction to save them grief.
people with expensive guns have run the trial and error gauntlet and are just trying to lead others away from the well traveled rut of misfortune and error.

can you shoot the games with a cheap gun? yes.
is it as enjoyable as one that doesn't fail or kick? no.
that's all im trying to say.
and....if it was my wife, and since I love her, I vote for getting her a nice gun that doesn't kick, to protect my hot dinners and clean house in the future! lol.

ps...I was treasurer of the NAS Lemoore rod and gun club in the mid 80's. I currently own a range in mo. come shoot some time.

[stuckinthe60s]

casual shooting is fine. but a casual bruise isn't.
casual shooting would be more fun if every time you shot, it didn't hurt.
if youre going to go cheap, get her a used semi and be done with the kick.

[stuckinthe60s]

have you ever hung out at a driving range?
you can tell those who are trying, and those that are just hacking away....by looking at their equipment.
if a guy just casually drives, sure get a set of clubs at a garage sale some Saturday. buy some used balls and hack away.
call it fun if that's what you like, but don't get frustrated if you can get one to go straight.
shooting casual?
im all for it. heck, the last match we had 54 was top score out of 125. last place shot a 4. we all had fun and went home happy.
but don't handicap someone who may have great talent, obstructed by lousy gear.
ESPECIALLY if shes your best friend.