Why did the SPAS12 die?

Tucker 1371 · May 30, 2009, 12:42 AM

Franchi seemed to have a great tactical 12ga shotgun and now they're no longer in production. What hapened? Were there problems with the system? Too heavy, unreliable etc? Just baffled.

Regolith · May 30, 2009, 01:43 AM

Well, the fact that they were banned from importation probably didn't help. Also, I can't remember for sure, but I seem to recall something about it not being all that reliable in semi-auto mode.

SDC · May 30, 2009, 04:00 AM

You've covered the two main ones; they were HEAVY, and they were finicky about ammo. Also, the ones with the folding stocks may have looked cool, but the stamped edges of the stock arms would do a nice job of slicing your cheek up under recoil. Give me an M3 any day.

lipadj46 · May 30, 2009, 08:10 AM

They are banned as they are not a sporting shotgun. The Saiga is walking the fine line and trying not to get banned like the SPAS12 that is why RAA can never import all the good "non sporting" accessories for the Saiga like 8 round russian mags, rifled choke tubes, flash hiders, mag wells etc.

Tucker 1371 · May 30, 2009, 09:52 AM

Gotcha, should've know it was some stupid anti-gunner, ban crap

.

Quote:

I seem to recall something about it not being all that reliable in semi-auto mode.

I never would have used it in semi anyway. Maybe just once for kicks.

Microgunner · May 30, 2009, 09:55 AM

Have you ever used one? Holy crap, what a nightmare!

Cerick · May 30, 2009, 10:22 AM

Held one at a gun show in south Florida. Man they're heavy!

RedneckFur · May 30, 2009, 10:51 AM

My uncle owned one for a while. It was very cool, but still a novelty, for the most part. After a year of not really enjoying it, he traded it for a Browning A5 and hasnt looked back.

kozak6 · May 30, 2009, 06:21 PM

The ones with the lever style safety were also tremendously dangerous and recalled.

With those, putting the safety on or off could fire the shotgun.

Tatsumi67 · May 30, 2009, 06:53 PM

There was a big thread about this last year, and owners chimed in with pictures and first hand experience:

1. It's very heavy, and very barrel heavy at that.
2. It's one of those things that instead of doing one thing well it does two things badly. The semi auto mode is apparently solid, but the pump mode because there is a spring behind it is <b>extremely</b> hard to cycle.
3. The lack of replacement parts was a problem.

But apparently it handles slugs like a dream.

Jonathan12 · May 31, 2009, 05:21 PM

Personally, I look at the SPAS-12 like a Delorian.

Does it look cool? Hell yeah.

Does it perform as well as it looks? Eh...

Everything a SPAS-12 does, a cheaper shotgun can do better. It's a cool novelty, because it has such a unique and awesome look. From what I've heard replacement parts are very expensive (and perhaps difficult to get ahold of), and the safety isn't really terribly safe and misuse can damage the gun or in some cases cause it to fire. Add to that the fact that it's quite heavy. They aren't a BAD weapon, but they aren't really a good one either.

Would I keep one if you gave it to me? Yeah! Give me a Delorian too...I'll probably never drive it but I'll probably never shoot the SPAS-12 either.

-Jonathan

xm21 · May 31, 2009, 07:11 PM

I hear some of them live on as very good trotline weights.

Dave McC · June 1, 2009, 08:44 AM

It was heavy, costly, cumbersome and did nothing better shotguns did cheaper.

I handled a couple over the decades. I'm less than enthused.

smartwhois · June 12, 2009, 07:29 AM

Well, the SPAS-12 used to be much cheaper before the United States government banned them from us. I bought six of them at one time for myself and friends - back then they were $400 something brand new.

It's still fun to shoot and while it is heavy, I don't find it too heavy, as others often complain. It is overly bulky though - the pump action is unnecessary and I almost never use it.

Mine also functions very well, and has low recoil. I can empty all 9 rounds in a matter of a couple of seconds. I've had some jams before, but nothing remarkable compared to other auto shotguns.

mp25ds4 · June 12, 2009, 09:05 AM

they're pricy too
I saw one with a dogleg stock at a gunshow for $2,000

Old Guard Dog · June 12, 2009, 10:09 AM

A friend is bringing me his for repair. The bushings on the folding stock are deteriorated. I checked and they aren't available, so I will probably have to make new ones. Maybe he should just sell it and get a couple of good US guns.

headborg · May 12, 2010, 01:03 PM

(1) the weight...

if you're loading/reloading your own heavy grain custom loads to fire.. the extra weight.. is nice to absorb more of recoil.

2) yeah, the early safety was an oxymoron but as long as you only point a loaded weapon at something you intend to fire at.. it's all ok.

3) If a gang of non-professional bad guys are approaching, and see you haul this bad bitch out of your Hummer.... several will probably turn tail and run just at the sight of it...leaving you less to deal with.

agreed, before the ban... they were easily picked up at $400 a pop....a little pricey now.

P99AS9 · May 12, 2010, 01:39 PM

I had one a while back (I think like 1995 or 96?). They were extremely heavy and very finnicky on ammo when in semi-auto, but I used it on pump most of the time anyway, which even then it had problems. It was banned from importation because it had "no sporting purpose"

I wouldn't get another.

Firepower! · May 12, 2010, 01:45 PM

Because it was too damn heavy for what it was.

Noskov · May 13, 2010, 02:42 AM

Holy thread resurrections...

I just bought a SPAS-12, LAW-12 and SAS-12. Yes the SPAS-12 is heavy, and yes it is complicated but you have to figure the gun itself was designed back in the 70's to do something that wasn't common in other shotguns.

Ammo wise it should be picky as long as you have the right size and load. Hell my Saiga 12 would choke on lighter loads which essentially made it a single shot unless I manually pulled back the bolt. If that were to happen to my SPAS-12 on semi, I could easily just swap to pump and still be able to fire.

It's still a nice shotgun but outdated due to the times and technology. For a collector's/attention grabbing collector's piece it retains it's value much better than most shotguns.

Firepower! · May 13, 2010, 03:34 AM

I agree with the above post. Even if its heavy like I said before, it was a unique item back then. Even now they look quite impressive in hands of a stationary guard outside a building.

Noskov · May 13, 2010, 04:30 AM

That's the beauty and uglyness of technology. What we have right now that we think is top of the line, best there is, will eventually be called garbage, complicated, primitive in 50 or 100 years, maybe even sooner considering how fast stuff gets upgraded.

rbernie · May 13, 2010, 08:02 AM

Y'all are being far too charitable.

IMO, they were absolutely abysmal shotguns. They may have been useful as barricade weapons, but for most any role in which a shotgun is normally used (including SD/HD) they were/are simply horrid weapons. The SPAS always seemed to me to be a classic example of somebody trying to build a gun to solve a 'corner case' problem (be semiauto but also be able to manually cycle low-power/non-lethal rounds), and having a design team that was NOT comprised of shooters/operators.

They are not just heavy - they are OMIGOD! heavy. The weight is distributed very badly. They are BULKY. The forearm is of a size that most folk can't comfortably grip. The controls are awkwardly shaped and placed, and impossibly stiff to operate. The available buttstocks range from awkward to incredibly uncomfortable. From a real world SD perspective, the gun handles very poorly; you can pretty much forget about any form of fast presentation, and fast transitions between targets is an exercise not unlike trying to drive a railroad tie.

The only folk that I know that speak well of them are those that are invested into collecting them, or who have never touched one and are enticed by 'the looks' of the gun. Of the folk that I know that still own one, none of them actually SHOOT them because they're simply not that much fun to shoot. It has also been my experience that many of the folk that speak well of them do so only long enough to sell their SPAS to the next unwitting sucker. I know of very few folk that bought into the platform to use it as a shooter that speak well of 'em once it's been sold off.

They may be collectible, but they are not practical.

model18 · May 13, 2010, 10:07 AM

mine shoots fine but there's better for less!

Noskov · May 13, 2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Y'all are being far too charitable.

IMO, they were absolutely abysmal shotguns. They may have been useful as barricade weapons, but for most any role in which a shotgun is normally used (including SD/HD) they were/are simply horrid weapons. The SPAS always seemed to me to be a classic example of somebody trying to build a gun to solve a 'corner case' problem (be semiauto but also be able to manually cycle low-power/non-lethal rounds), and having a design team that was NOT comprised of shooters/operators.

They are not just heavy - they are OMIGOD! heavy. The weight is distributed very badly. They are BULKY. The forearm is of a size that most folk can't comfortably grip. The controls are awkwardly shaped and placed, and impossibly stiff to operate. The available buttstocks range from awkward to incredibly uncomfortable. From a real world SD perspective, the gun handles very poorly; you can pretty much forget about any form of fast presentation, and fast transitions between targets is an exercise not unlike trying to drive a railroad tie.

The only folk that I know that speak well of them are those that are invested into collecting them, or who have never touched one and are enticed by 'the looks' of the gun. Of the folk that I know that still own one, none of them actually SHOOT them because they're simply not that much fun to shoot. It has also been my experience that many of the folk that speak well of them do so only long enough to sell their SPAS to the next unwitting sucker. I know of very few folk that bought into the platform to use it as a shooter that speak well of 'em once it's been sold off.

They may be collectible, but they are not practical.

I'd have to disagree on a few points. The SPAS was never designed to be a self-defense/home-defense shotgun in the first place. Franchi set out to create a military shotgun because historically most if not all "military shotguns" prior were just normal everyday hunting shotguns with extra bells and whistles to meet military needs. It does it's role as a riot/assault shotgun even if it seems complicated; that's what training is for.

I'm not sure where people are holding the handguard but I never found it to be too large and uncomfortable and I'm only 5'7". There is a wider bulge at the front end of the handguard but that isn't where you palm it. If I get my hands around it, and I've seen 14 year olds with broken fingers pump and cycle the SPAS-12 loaded with slug just fine. I don't know if the people who can't get a grip around it are midgets or 2 year olds...

Here's the video of the 14 yr old with the broken finger cycling and pumping the SPAS-12 with ease; if a kid can do it I don't know why some adults can't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGonPg6gd0

I may own a SPAS along with it's brothers but I recognize it's faults and still love the shotgun. For me it's a childhood memory that got me into the world of firearms. Did I buy it as a collector's piece? Yes. Did I buy it for a daily shooter? Yes. Did I buy it for self-defense/home-defense? No.

I don't think it's fair to call buyer's of a gun "suckers". I believe the AR series rifles gets about as much flak as being an underpowered MBR than the SPAS-12 gets as a shotgun. Does it mean I call every AR buyer a "sucker" for buying a weak, faulty system? No. The AR does have it's pro's and con's like every firearm and like every firearm it has it's devoted fans and vocal detractors.

A bunch of my buddies on a different forum joking laughed when I got my SPAS because it's another owner who'll have fun with a shotgun unlike any other. We all enjoy our SPAS's and understand it's shortcomings and flaws but that has to tell you something about a firearm that's heavy, bulky, complicated yet still has tons of fans.

Sorry long rant off.

May 30, 2009, 12:42 AM	#1
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	Why did the SPAS12 die? Franchi seemed to have a great tactical 12ga shotgun and now they're no longer in production. What hapened? Were there problems with the system? Too heavy, unreliable etc? Just baffled. __________________ Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250 Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging. OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe

May 30, 2009, 04:00 AM	#3
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	You've covered the two main ones; they were HEAVY, and they were finicky about ammo. Also, the ones with the folding stocks may have looked cool, but the stamped edges of the stock arms would do a nice job of slicing your cheek up under recoil. Give me an M3 any day. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

May 30, 2009, 08:10 AM	#4
lipadj46 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 494	They are banned as they are not a sporting shotgun. The Saiga is walking the fine line and trying not to get banned like the SPAS12 that is why RAA can never import all the good "non sporting" accessories for the Saiga like 8 round russian mags, rifled choke tubes, flash hiders, mag wells etc. Last edited by lipadj46; May 30, 2009 at 08:18 AM.

May 30, 2009, 09:55 AM	#6
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	Have you ever used one? Holy crap, what a nightmare! __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

May 30, 2009, 10:51 AM	#8
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	My uncle owned one for a while. It was very cool, but still a novelty, for the most part. After a year of not really enjoying it, he traded it for a Browning A5 and hasnt looked back. __________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell

May 30, 2009, 01:43 AM	#2
Regolith Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 400	Well, the fact that they were banned from importation probably didn't help. Also, I can't remember for sure, but I seem to recall something about it not being all that reliable in semi-auto mode.

May 30, 2009, 10:22 AM	#7
Cerick Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2008 Location: 973, NJ Posts: 345	Held one at a gun show in south Florida. Man they're heavy!

May 30, 2009, 06:21 PM	#9
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	The ones with the lever style safety were also tremendously dangerous and recalled. With those, putting the safety on or off could fire the shotgun.

May 30, 2009, 06:53 PM	#10
Tatsumi67 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2007 Posts: 575	There was a big thread about this last year, and owners chimed in with pictures and first hand experience: 1. It's very heavy, and very barrel heavy at that. 2. It's one of those things that instead of doing one thing well it does two things badly. The semi auto mode is apparently solid, but the pump mode because there is a spring behind it is <b>extremely</b> hard to cycle. 3. The lack of replacement parts was a problem. But apparently it handles slugs like a dream. __________________ "Do what you can, what you want, what you must,feel the hunger inside, just don't lose your trust" - KMFDM, Trust. NRA Member,Minnesota State Safety Certified, Eagle Scout Currently schemeing on an AR-15 build.

May 31, 2009, 05:21 PM	#11
Jonathan12 Member Join Date: March 21, 2009 Posts: 27	Personally, I look at the SPAS-12 like a Delorian. Does it look cool? Hell yeah. Does it perform as well as it looks? Eh... Everything a SPAS-12 does, a cheaper shotgun can do better. It's a cool novelty, because it has such a unique and awesome look. From what I've heard replacement parts are very expensive (and perhaps difficult to get ahold of), and the safety isn't really terribly safe and misuse can damage the gun or in some cases cause it to fire. Add to that the fact that it's quite heavy. They aren't a BAD weapon, but they aren't really a good one either. Would I keep one if you gave it to me? Yeah! Give me a Delorian too...I'll probably never drive it but I'll probably never shoot the SPAS-12 either. -Jonathan Last edited by Jonathan12; May 31, 2009 at 05:26 PM.

May 31, 2009, 07:11 PM	#12
xm21 Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2008 Posts: 177	I hear some of them live on as very good trotline weights.

June 1, 2009, 08:44 AM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	It was heavy, costly, cumbersome and did nothing better shotguns did cheaper. I handled a couple over the decades. I'm less than enthused.

June 12, 2009, 07:29 AM	#14
smartwhois Junior member Join Date: June 2, 2009 Posts: 52	Well, the SPAS-12 used to be much cheaper before the United States government banned them from us. I bought six of them at one time for myself and friends - back then they were $400 something brand new. It's still fun to shoot and while it is heavy, I don't find it too heavy, as others often complain. It is overly bulky though - the pump action is unnecessary and I almost never use it. Mine also functions very well, and has low recoil. I can empty all 9 rounds in a matter of a couple of seconds. I've had some jams before, but nothing remarkable compared to other auto shotguns.

June 12, 2009, 09:05 AM	#15
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	they're pricy too I saw one with a dogleg stock at a gunshow for $2,000 __________________ Liberal Newscaster Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked: 'What do you feel.....when you shoot a Terrorist?' The Marine shrugged and replied, "A Slight Recoil."

June 12, 2009, 10:09 AM	#16
Old Guard Dog Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: SE PA Posts: 101	A friend is bringing me his for repair. The bushings on the folding stock are deteriorated. I checked and they aren't available, so I will probably have to make new ones. Maybe he should just sell it and get a couple of good US guns.

May 12, 2010, 01:03 PM	#17
headborg Junior Member Join Date: May 12, 2010 Posts: 3	In Defense of .. (1) the weight... if you're loading/reloading your own heavy grain custom loads to fire.. the extra weight.. is nice to absorb more of recoil. 2) yeah, the early safety was an oxymoron but as long as you only point a loaded weapon at something you intend to fire at.. it's all ok. 3) If a gang of non-professional bad guys are approaching, and see you haul this bad bitch out of your Hummer.... several will probably turn tail and run just at the sight of it...leaving you less to deal with. agreed, before the ban... they were easily picked up at $400 a pop....a little pricey now.

May 12, 2010, 01:39 PM	#18
P99AS9 Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 612	I had one a while back (I think like 1995 or 96?). They were extremely heavy and very finnicky on ammo when in semi-auto, but I used it on pump most of the time anyway, which even then it had problems. It was banned from importation because it had "no sporting purpose" I wouldn't get another.

May 12, 2010, 01:45 PM	#19
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Because it was too damn heavy for what it was.

May 13, 2010, 02:42 AM	#20
Noskov Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Posts: 38	Holy thread resurrections... I just bought a SPAS-12, LAW-12 and SAS-12. Yes the SPAS-12 is heavy, and yes it is complicated but you have to figure the gun itself was designed back in the 70's to do something that wasn't common in other shotguns. Ammo wise it should be picky as long as you have the right size and load. Hell my Saiga 12 would choke on lighter loads which essentially made it a single shot unless I manually pulled back the bolt. If that were to happen to my SPAS-12 on semi, I could easily just swap to pump and still be able to fire. It's still a nice shotgun but outdated due to the times and technology. For a collector's/attention grabbing collector's piece it retains it's value much better than most shotguns.

May 13, 2010, 03:34 AM	#21
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I agree with the above post. Even if its heavy like I said before, it was a unique item back then. Even now they look quite impressive in hands of a stationary guard outside a building.

May 13, 2010, 04:30 AM	#22
Noskov Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Posts: 38	That's the beauty and uglyness of technology. What we have right now that we think is top of the line, best there is, will eventually be called garbage, complicated, primitive in 50 or 100 years, maybe even sooner considering how fast stuff gets upgraded.

May 13, 2010, 08:02 AM	#23
rbernie Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2004 Location: Plain Ol', TX Posts: 713	Y'all are being far too charitable. IMO, they were absolutely abysmal shotguns. They may have been useful as barricade weapons, but for most any role in which a shotgun is normally used (including SD/HD) they were/are simply horrid weapons. The SPAS always seemed to me to be a classic example of somebody trying to build a gun to solve a 'corner case' problem (be semiauto but also be able to manually cycle low-power/non-lethal rounds), and having a design team that was NOT comprised of shooters/operators. They are not just heavy - they are OMIGOD! heavy. The weight is distributed very badly. They are BULKY. The forearm is of a size that most folk can't comfortably grip. The controls are awkwardly shaped and placed, and impossibly stiff to operate. The available buttstocks range from awkward to incredibly uncomfortable. From a real world SD perspective, the gun handles very poorly; you can pretty much forget about any form of fast presentation, and fast transitions between targets is an exercise not unlike trying to drive a railroad tie. The only folk that I know that speak well of them are those that are invested into collecting them, or who have never touched one and are enticed by 'the looks' of the gun. Of the folk that I know that still own one, none of them actually SHOOT them because they're simply not that much fun to shoot. It has also been my experience that many of the folk that speak well of them do so only long enough to sell their SPAS to the next unwitting sucker. I know of very few folk that bought into the platform to use it as a shooter that speak well of 'em once it's been sold off. They may be collectible, but they are not practical. __________________ -A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association. Last edited by rbernie; May 13, 2010 at 08:07 AM.

May 13, 2010, 10:07 AM	#24
model18 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2006 Posts: 419	SPAS12 mine shoots fine but there's better for less!