The Carbine and Father's Day

[kraigwy]

My father was in the SP (Burma) during WWII. The jungle was so thick you were lucky if you could see farther the 25 yards. He carried and prased the little M1 Carbine, saying it was the perfect jungle carbine for such conditions. He even talks about bringing down a water buffalo with one shot from his. The Carbine was his weapon of choice in Korea also. He loved that little gun.

My father passed on before I was able to pick up my Underwood from the CMP, but I think of him every time I shoot it.



For its limitations I found it to be an accurate little rifle. I shoot mine in the CMPs Carbine Matches.

Well there has been a delay from the CMP, (their busy, I have no complaints) but yesterday I recieved this year old award from the CMP's OK City Games last year. Its kind of nice recieving it just before Father's Day, and hope my father can look down with pride in his favorite rifle and youngest son.

[TINCANBANDIT]

excellent post, I'm sure your Father is beyond proud!

[RickB]

My dad was working a payroll job - "finance" - when he was in Japan after the war, but he had in his office, at various times, a Thompson SMG, and one of the Carbines equipped with an infrared night scope.

The Carbine I have today came to me from my dad, who bought it from Uncle Sam in the early '60s. I still have the shipping papers.
My parents lived in Tacoma, WA, at the time, and the gun bears a Mt, Rainier Arsenal rebuild stamp, so the Carbine had sort of "come home".

I shot it a bit in USPSA 3-gun competition, including nationals in '06.
Fun gun.

[T. O'Heir]

"...a water buffalo with one shot..." Not a chance. The water buffalo is Asia's tractor and is a great big beastie. Ain't no Carbine going to drop one with one shot. And I'm a big fan of the Carbine and what it's capable of doing.

[bamaranger]

I've always had a soft spot for the M1 carbine. I was lucky enough to get detailed to FLETC as a line instructor on a couple of occassions. On the first
TDY (1988?) . the Bureau of Prisons still used the carbine as its rifled long arm. With BOP, EVERYBODY learned to shoot, and they agency was running a lot of hires through the academy at that time. So us TDY guys got handed off to BOP pretty often.

Shot the carbine quite a bit. We never turned in partial boxes of ammo, the line instructors would should the loose ammo up between classes. One guy was pretty good at shooting the thing held upside down! We'd often shoot the small scoring guide silhouette in the corner of the big targets , 3 shots, to see who would buy lunch. Those BOP carbines had been shot a lot, but they seemed to have a large number of them, and the 15 rd mag was standard. We trained them on handgun first (revolver days), anybody that could learn to shoot the revolver, always shot carbine well also.

I said I would have one someday. About a decade later, when CMP got carbines for sale, I just did not have the money. When I was working, and Auto Ordanance offered a LE discount on their repro, I did not have the money (well I would not spend it would be a better statement), and I still do not have a carbine.

The carbine is a love/hate thing. I've read where vets liked'em (Audie Murphy for one), and others despised them. There are lots of accounts of them used effectively in European combat, WWII. They were pretty common in LE too. I was in the Chief Rangers office in the Great Smoky's NP in the early 80's, and their was a closet full of them, locked in racks. The carbine was not an approved firearm for the NPS, (the Rem 760 .308 pump was) but apparently at one time the carbine were available to NPS Rangers.

The original PDW, and the forerunner to the STG the carbine filled a unique and debated role. I'm still in the market.

[bamaranger]

All manner of bovine critters have been dispatched with the .22 lr for slaughter.

Anybody facing down a water buff with a carbine, with any sense at all, would know they would have to brain the animal. I have no doubt that a .30 carbine FMJ through the ear hole, eyeball, or juncture of skull and neck behind the ear, could drop a buff.

But I wouldn't want to try it.

[2damnold4this]

Great post Kraig and congrats on your trophy.

[Ricklin]

Darn near any caliber can bring down any creature. Shot placement, as always rules the day.

[Model12Win]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...a water buffalo with one shot..." Not a chance. The water buffalo is Asia's tractor and is a great big beastie. Ain't no Carbine going to drop one with one shot. And I'm a big fan of the Carbine and what it's capable of doing.

WOW! Why don't you just call the OP's father a liar? So classy, good for you!!

[kraigwy]

WOW! Why don't you just call the OP's father a liar? So classy, good for you!!

Model12Win, thanks but I took no offense. Different people dont have the expierence others have so reply based on their limited expierence.

We know that FMJs do tend to penitrate deeper then jackets HPs or SPs. I've seen waterbuffalo hit with M193 FMJ 223s, I shoot many of of moose with LSWC 357s and even killed a buffalo (bison) with a frontal head shot with the same service revolver and LCWCs I used to put down moose as a cop in Alaska.

Granted I've never shot any animal with my Carbine, I know enough about bullets that with proper bullet placement it will penitrate the skull of a water buffalo.

After all how many Elephants, Rinos, and Cape Buffalo were killed in Africa, using the 7 Mauser, '06, 303, and 30-40 Krag using mililitary surplus FMJ ammo. I think just reading Bell, would give us the info we need.

[doofus47]

Thanks for sharing. I always loved the lines of the 30 carbine. I got to shoot one at a 3 gun match once. If I were in a low visibility battle zone, it would be a very effective tool.

I bet a 30 carbine could take a water buffalo much like poachers can take a deer with a 22lr (or so I've heard).

[Ibmikey]

The Carbine is a great little rifle and I love hearing accounts of our GI’s in WWII, I just wish more soldiers had recorded their experiences of that long ago war. I collected Carbines for many years since that first Inland arrived from DCM via Railway Express, still have a bunch of them to go with my other WWII rifles and pistols and occasionally carried one in Korea (normally a 1911 and Thompson). I have shot a deer with the 110gr soft point and Texas hogs with ball so I know it will do the job if the shot is placed correctly.

[fourbore]

Congrats on the plaque and I too appreciate the post. A good fathers post.

Can you tell us more about these CMP carbines?



This carbine looks a new rifle? What is that a full rebuild from a frame? And how do they compare in price and execution to either Fulton or the new Inland?

I did not see any carbines available in my last perusal of CMP website. I may have missed an option there? Can you provide a link?

[kraigwy]

Fourbore:

The large numbers of USGI Carbines have been sold. There are some that keep popping up and are sold on the CMP's Auction site but they are a bit pricy compared to the prices when they were being sold on their Rifle Sales section.

http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/catalog...3&n=M1-Carbine

[fourbore]

AH yes, those auctions. I guess, I missed the boat for M1 carbines.
Thx.

[bamaranger]

Before my gun buying time, (1950-60's?)I'd think well prior Vietnam, I read that the DCM (as CMP was called in those days) sold carbines for $15 bucks or so. Then there were no more (for civilian sale) for a long time. I suppose we gave them all to the ARVN.

'Round about 2000, and that is another speculation, carbines went on public sale through the CMP. They were getting somewhere around $400 bucks for them. I had all the paperwork filled out, but could just not commit. I'd bought two Garands not too long before, had other obligations....so I never got a carbine.

Apparently they come up for CMP auction now and again, and bring far more then $400.

[amd6547]

I think I paid $475 for my service grade Inland back then. I got my paperwork in order, and went to the CMP North Store at Camp Perry (about an hour drive for me...).
They had one big rack of Carbines. I almost picked out an IBM, but the Inland next to it looked better, had a six digit serial, and came in a rockola I-cut stock.
It has been an excellent shooter...reliable, and accurate.
I prefer it to my AR for home defense use, and it is kept with a 15rd mag of Hornady Critical Defense handy.

[agtman]

What would be a 'reasonable' price for a DCM/CMP USGI carbine these days, like an Inland or one of the others?

Assume it was shot in Matches, but is in otherwise excellent condition - with a sling and one mag. I know a guy who's got two like that, and he's thinking of selling one.

[NWPilgrim]

Plain old rack grade Carbines easily sell for $800 on the open market. One that has been cared for should fetch more.

My Dad fought in the Pacific ( Guam and Okinawa among others) and hated the Carbine as it could not shoot through coconut logs. But it seems perfectly adequate for civilian home defenses and pest control. I have two and everyone who shoots the Carbine enjoys it. Very handy size and superb lines. And of course there is always the lingering thought that of everything he fought with in WWII from 1911 to Ma Deuce, Audie Murphy's favorite weapon was the handy little Carbine.

Very nice Fathers Day post, Kraig. With your background shooting rifles I now appreciate the Carbine even more.

[alicemarc]

You do your father homage Everytime you use it .amazing thread