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Old August 27, 2018, 06:44 PM   #1
JJBoy55
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Denied handgun purchase! And I work for the State..

Tried to purchase a handgun and was denied by the background check. Supposedly it’s 99.8% accurate. I work currently in law enforcement which required extensive background/fingerprinting/etc. In fact I must scan everyday to get my gear. Yet I’m somehow being denied.

Never been convicted of any felonies, or any crimes. I have had traffic tickets before but that’s it. I was arrested once when 17 for a crime my friend and his friend committed (burglary) and I was arrested by association. The charges against me where all dismissed, I didn’t plead to a lesser charge or get a deferred sentence - they were completely dropped as I wasn’t involved. I Called the courts to confirm (15 years later) and they said yes, it’s dismissed and closed and not on my record. There is even proof it’s been dismissed and guess what? The Brady law doesn’t care! Guilty until you can prove you’re innocent.

Yet because of that I’m being denied a firearm and have to wait months for appealing and proving innocence, even though it was dismissed. The hell!

Oh and to make things 10x worse? I have worked 2 Goverment jobs, both requiring full background checks, fingerprints and clearances. I am currently working for the State (law enforcement) - yet the same State I work for, is denying me a handgun for something I was cleared of 15 years ago?? I have been through firearm training from the State itself, what the hell!! Yet I am still somehow barred from owning one because of the Brady law, although I’m sure after a few months I can finally get it appealed and cleared.
But I shouldn’t even have to! Damn if I could sue the State I probably would right now, as this is insane. THIS is why the Brady law and other gun control laws can affect anyone.
I’m rightfully upset and feel like almost getting an attorney to speed up the process, as this is plain stupid. Any advice on who to contact to help speed up the process, or is anyone say an NRA member? Would they help with this sort of issue? Ugh, this is pure stupidity and I have lost all faith in the background check systems now.
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Old August 31, 2018, 11:51 AM   #2
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Which state are you in?
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Old August 31, 2018, 12:26 PM   #3
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Something doesn't sound right as to why you've been denied. If it were me, I'd contact the ATF, or FBI, as they control the NICS checks to see what the snag is.
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Old August 31, 2018, 12:53 PM   #4
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Your post, although lengthy, isn't very clear. The "Brady Law" isn't keeping you from getting your gun, it's something on the form you're filling out. Who told you that the "Brady Law" was keeping you from getting the gun? What capacity are you working in as a "law enforcement" person. No offense, but I've seen posts like this as trolling posts and since this is your first post I'm a bit skeptical. The subject matter may stir some debate and arouse some ire with some, but there's not a lot of clarity here. You don't have to be convicted of a crime to be denied, simply being charged with domestic assault can prevent you from getting a gun or things like stalking, etc. Like the used to say, "now for the rest of the story".
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Old August 31, 2018, 12:56 PM   #5
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If you were formally arrested for the burglary, even though the charges were later dismissed, there is a permanent NCIC record of the that arrest for that charge. Court records are a very different thing and not routinely checked on NICS searches. Court dispositions are more likely than not never entered into the NCIC. This would require someone at the arresting agency to go back in and update the NCIC record. This is something that may be worth your while to pursue with the arresting agency.

NICS does something very similar to a "national agency check" - that means the clearance is mostly based on what they find in the NCIC. The process is largely automated and if the NCIC record was never updated to show the dismissal, they assume the worse.

Hope you can get it straightened out.
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Old August 31, 2018, 01:30 PM   #6
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Records can get screwed really fast.

Any arrest for any reason will be on there no matter what the court does later. And sometimes the results of the court will not be directly tied to the arrest later. Making a gap that shows an arrest but no resolution. Even if the arresting offense isn't something that would prohibit you from owning a firearm, you may not be able to pass a NICS with an open arrest. My understanding anyway.

If you ever get arrested for a minor thing, and they accidentally enter the arrest as a felony arrest rather than a misdemeanor, that can pose a problem. Especially if court documents don't track that well. As often when a mistake is made around that, the court will dismiss, and then you will be arrested again under the proper classification. Usually on paper only, they just refile, but it shows up as a new arrest.

Background checks are a muddy mess... Agrigating info from multiple entities, of inconsistent record keeping diligence.
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Old August 31, 2018, 05:51 PM   #7
dogtown tom
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Quote:
JJBoy55 Tried to purchase a handgun and was denied by the background check. Supposedly it’s 99.8% accurate. I work currently in law enforcement which required extensive background/fingerprinting/etc. In fact I must scan everyday to get my gear. Yet I’m somehow being denied.
The dealer should have given you your NICS transaction# and a card from the FBI with instructions on how to appeal the NICS result.

Quote:
Never been convicted of any felonies, or any crimes. I have had traffic tickets before but that’s it. I was arrested once when 17 for a crime my friend and his friend committed (burglary) and I was arrested by association. The charges against me where all dismissed, I didn’t plead to a lesser charge or get a deferred sentence - they were completely dropped as I wasn’t involved. I Called the courts to confirm (15 years later) and they said yes, it’s dismissed and closed and not on my record. There is even proof it’s been dismissed and guess what? The Brady law doesn’t care! Guilty until you can prove you’re innocent.
It may not be YOU that is prohibited, but someone with the same or very similar name. Once you ask the FBI why you were denied, you'll get a response within five business days. https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ni...m-nics-appeals



Quote:
Yet because of that I’m being denied a firearm and have to wait months for appealing and proving innocence, even though it was dismissed. The hell!
You don't know the reason for your denial until you ask the FBI. Your previous arrest is not a prohibiting factor by itself, but if that LE agency never updated their records it may not show the case was dismissed.



Quote:
Oh and to make things 10x worse? I have worked 2 Goverment jobs, both requiring full background checks, fingerprints and clearances. I am currently working for the State (law enforcement) -
Has no bearing on an FBI NICS check. The FBI does not know who you work for.



Quote:
yet the same State I work for, is denying me a handgun for something I was cleared of 15 years ago??
It would help if you listed the state where you reside. If your background check was conducted by FBI NICS the appeal process may be different than a denial by a state point of contact.


Quote:
I have been through firearm training from the State itself, what the hell!! Yet I am still somehow barred from owning one because of the Brady law, although I’m sure after a few months I can finally get it appealed and cleared.
But I shouldn’t even have to! Damn if I could sue the State I probably would right now, as this is insane. THIS is why the Brady law and other gun control laws can affect anyone.
1. Chill out
2. Is this the first time you have ever tried to buy a firearm?
3. The Brady Law isn't barring you from owning a gun, just acquiring this one from a licensed dealer.



Quote:
I’m rightfully upset and feel like almost getting an attorney to speed up the process, as this is plain stupid.
Good idea. Pay an attorney to do what you should and could do for yourself.


Quote:
Any advice on who to contact to help speed up the process,
How about starting with the agency that denied your transaction?



Quote:
or is anyone say an NRA member? Would they help with this sort of issue?
They'll laugh and tell you to do what I've already written. Despite what the Democrats like to say, the NRA doesn't mean jack squat to the FBI NICS.


Quote:
Ugh, this is pure stupidity and I have lost all faith in the background check systems now.
Yet you told us you do have a criminal record history. It's not the FBI's fault if records are present that show you as a prohibited person. That would be the fault of the LE agency sending records to the FBI.
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Old August 31, 2018, 06:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
SGW Gunsmith Something doesn't sound right as to why you've been denied. If it were me, I'd contact the ATF, or FBI, as they control the NICS checks to see what the snag is.
ATF has absolutely nothing to do with the background check. That is entirely the FBI NICS or in the case of a state POC, a state agency.


Quote:
NoSecondBest Your post, although lengthy, isn't very clear. The "Brady Law" isn't keeping you from getting your gun, it's something on the form you're filling out.
Like his name.


Quote:
Ike666 If you were formally arrested for the burglary, even though the charges were later dismissed, there is a permanent NCIC record of the that arrest for that charge. Court records are a very different thing and not routinely checked on NICS searches. Court dispositions are more likely than not never entered into the NCIC. This would require someone at the arresting agency to go back in and update the NCIC record. This is something that may be worth your while to pursue with the arresting agency.
This......but wait until you hear the reason why you were denied.
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Old August 31, 2018, 06:49 PM   #9
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OP: You last paragraph leaves one w/ the feeling of over-reaction.
(Considered bad juju when weapons are under discussion -- even if possibly warranted)

Slow down and follow the process outlined here:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/nics/appeals/nic...-for-appealing
... and let us know what you find out.
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Old August 31, 2018, 07:40 PM   #10
wv109323
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Did you supply your SS number? Many times nics can not determine which"Joe Smith" you are. If in doubt your request is delayed. I thought nics had three or five days to approve your request.
Did the FFL dealer say your request was denied or delayed? There is quite a difference.
Has your address changed lately?
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Old August 31, 2018, 07:52 PM   #11
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It is entirely possible that this guy is nothing but a troll, who has made a single drive by post on the day that he joined. Look at all the attention that he has gotten, he has visited, but not had anything to say in response to the advice.

No offense meant if this fella is really a dedicated member, I hope none taken, but a great deal of time has already been spent trying to help him, and he hasn't responded.

I also find that this name has had a twitter account suspended..
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Old August 31, 2018, 07:59 PM   #12
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He was denied because he was buying a Taurus.
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Old August 31, 2018, 08:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmady View Post
He was denied because he was buying a Taurus.
Did it come back denied or was it unresolved? Many FFL's will not sell you a gun on an unresolved. I would bet that the burglary incident shows as an arrest on you FBI report but they never submitted the final disposition and there are no records of it in the court system because they were expunged. I had a similar situation and I finally just applied for and recieved a CCW permit. Now they no longer do the NICS checks. All states seem to be different with that so it may not help you.

Get the form to request your FBI background and submit it. It takes a couple of weeks and you'll be able to see where the problem is.
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Old August 31, 2018, 09:45 PM   #14
dogtown tom
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Quote:
LineStretcher Did it come back denied or was it unresolved? Many FFL's will not sell you a gun on an unresolved.
"Unresolved" is not a status from the FBI.
The only possible responses from FBI NICS:
Proceed
Delayed
Denied


Quote:
wv109323 Did you supply your SS number? Many times nics can not determine which"Joe Smith" you are.
The SSN isn't magical. I have buyers who always give it and always get a delay.
On several occasions I've had the FBI NICS Examiner ask if the buyer was willing to give their SSN and immediately the transaction was a proceed.


Quote:
If in doubt your request is delayed. I thought nics had three or five days to approve your request.
On a delayed transaction, the FBI NICs will tell the dealer the date the firearm may be transferred. NICS has three business days beginning the next business day to deny a transaction. One of my transactions tonight was delayed until 9/7.....that's three business days from today.


Quote:
Has your address changed lately?
FBI is never told the buyers address.
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Old August 31, 2018, 10:29 PM   #15
JJBoy55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal H View Post
Which state are you in?
Colorado. It was denied, the store gave me an appeal form that goes to the State of Colorsdo - not the FBI. I only mentioned me being a State employee as it seems the State CBI does it all in Colorado, not the FBI. I could be wrong though but it’s also what I read on one website. So I kind of figured they would know but I could be wrong.

Also, no, not a troll post. I didn’t see any replies until today, it says my post was moved but shows all the replies started just today? If my username pops up on Twitter, lol, I just randomly picked this name. No connection.

Quote:
Yet you told us you do have a criminal record history. It's not the FBI's fault if records are present that show you as a prohibited person. That would be the fault of the LE agency sending records to the FBI.
I was charged (key word: charged) with a crime but like I said all charges where dismissed as I wasn’t involved. My two friends who were involved got charged. I’m not sure that simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time (and turned out wrong people) equals a criminal history... After all that’s a why courts are around as you’re suppose to be innocent until proven guilty. Anyone can be arrested wrongfully and released, that doesn’t mean they have a criminal history for something they never did.
But I understand now that it’s the arresting agencies fault for not updating the records. I guess I just assumed the FBI would be able to view it as “case dismissed” as the courts have stated the records show the case as being dropped entirely. So if that’s true then I shouldn’t have any issues. But it’s the State who denied it and I don’t know why they aren’t seeing it. I guess a simple clerical error on the courts could cause it to still show as open even though they told me (the courthouse) that it shows dismissed/closed. Or maybe when they run the background check they search for Arrests and denied based on that?

Now as far as the Brady law, I just happened to read online on some random website that “mere arrests can lead to denials, which was put into the Brady law” so I assumed it was correct.
Quote:
Records can get screwed really fast.

Any arrest for any reason will be on there no matter what the court does later.
Yeah, I guess it just sucks it can work that way sometimes.

But thank you for the link to the fbi appeal, I will try them also. I don’t know if they will be able to assist since it seems the State denied it based on their check. But it’s worth a try so thanks.

Also: The State said the denial was because it was regarding a case from my home State, and the year they listed was the same year it happened.

So basically right I’m appealing the Appeal - which is why I was frustrated in my original post. I also made the handgun purchase online so it’s paid for and I’m going to lose out on the $45 background fee + the restocking fee for it being sent back + shipping fees which sucks, but oh well.
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Old August 31, 2018, 11:33 PM   #16
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Do you have an extremely common name? Did you write your SS number down on the 4473? The aforementioned fact that you think your arrest was totally gone is correct that there is ALWAYS a record of the arrest. I was arrested for a class A misdemeanor when I was 19 and served a year probation on deferred adjudication (no guilty) but in Texas that is a life long ban to becoming a cop or jailer. The governor himself couldn’t clear my name enough to where I could become a cop. That is a fact.
Also, have you bought two or three guns lately and in quick succession? That may make them raise a flag on you too.
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Old September 1, 2018, 12:16 AM   #17
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This occasionally happens, unfortunately. I know people who have TS security clearances, no criminal record, and fly armed military aircraft that got denied. Work through the process, and it will eventually get fixed...might take a while though. Until then, you are out of luck, as Colorado banned private sales a few years back (I wonder if they "feel" safer.).
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Old September 1, 2018, 06:09 AM   #18
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I've been arrested several times, yet I never have trouble buying a gun and even have a carry permit. The charges and convictions are what count... not simply arrests. I suspect there was a clerical or other human error made since you should have been properly vetted already by a LEO employment background check. Re-examine the forms you filled out to see if you did something wrong. If not, then appeal.
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Old September 1, 2018, 11:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Do you have an extremely common name? Did you write your SS number down on the 4473?
This. Years ago I suddenly started getting denials. After some deep digging I found that there is a guy 100 miles north of me, same first, middle and last name, and same birth date. He was recently arrested, at the time, for domestic abuse. It took proof of my social security number to get it all corrected. I volunteered to be finger printed, but it didn't have to go that far.
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Old September 1, 2018, 12:44 PM   #20
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Roger that, Mike38. That’s how that works.
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Old September 1, 2018, 12:55 PM   #21
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There has been a guy with my name living here for thirty years, he even worked as a cop here. He's had credit problems and I've been dunned for him for decades.

I went to the sheriff's office thirty years or so to get a permit to purchase, and I was stalled. Waited while a group of people milled around going through files, and eventually two people grabbed me from behind and started to haul me away. A guy who looked like me had committed armed robbery a week before.

At least the current system doesn't get you thrown into a chair and beaten with rubber hoses.
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Old September 1, 2018, 01:28 PM   #22
dogtown tom
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Quote:
Roamin_Wade Do you have an extremely common name? Did you write your SS number down on the 4473?
Did you see in the OP's reply immediately before yours? He wrote: "The State said the denial was because it was regarding a case from my home State, and the year they listed was the same year it happened."
A common name or SSN would not have anything to do with the OP's denial.



Quote:
Also, have you bought two or three guns lately and in quick succession? That may make them raise a flag on you too.
Again, the OP KNOWS WHY HE WAS DENIED. And it has nothing to do with number of firearms purchased or whether he used his social security number.
Unless you live in a state with purchase restrictions or a required "permit to purchase".....no "flag" would be raised.
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Old September 1, 2018, 03:14 PM   #23
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First, in Nevada if the state employee cannot make a positive proceed or denied the will come back with an unresolved. The FFL then can decide if he wants to sell the gun or not but must wait an additional 24 hours.

In the OP's case, get the STN number from the FFL and use it to get a copy of your FBI record. You can also wait and the state might send you a letter. Go to the FBI website and follow their instructions. You'll need to send a finger print card in also. Get at least 3.

Once you get your FBI report back, call your CBI and get them to tell you exactly what item on your FBI report caused the denial. Once you know that, go to the court where the case was handled and get copies of everything pertaining to it. Once you have that, take it to the CBI office and get your CBI record corrected. You may be able to send in your information but I would make notorized copies.

Finally, the last step is to submit the info to the FBI by submitting a Voluntary Appeal. Yep another print card and more copies of the case.

Some will argue that this is not the right procedure but I did it so I know it is. My problem was that the courts no longer had any record of my case. My only recourse was to apply for a CCW which the state of Nevada accepts in lieu of a NICS check.

Good Luck!
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Old September 1, 2018, 08:32 PM   #24
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1. Colorado is a Point of Contact state. You were denied by Colorado, not NICS, so you'll appeal with Colorado. Here is where you start: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cbi/appeal

2. This is "just business". Everyone you will be working with in the appeal process will treat this as business. It is not personal. Stay cool and look forward to getting your records cleaned up.

3. Since you were denied, an experienced transfer dealer can usually arrange to return your weapon with no restocking fee and with a shipping label prepaid by the online seller. Contact the seller if your transfer dealer does not know how to do this. You are out the transfer fee because the dealer provided that service to you.
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Old September 1, 2018, 11:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
LineStretcher First, in Nevada if the state employee cannot make a positive proceed or denied the will come back with an unresolved. The FFL then can decide if he wants to sell the gun or not but must wait an additional 24 hours.
The Brady Law does not allow that.
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