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Old November 2, 2020, 11:00 PM   #1
musicmatty
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00 Buck shot at 12, 15 and 20 yards

I tried out some new 00 Buckshot I found in a gun store this past week made in Italy. I bought a case consisting of 250 rounds for $200. Overall, I’m very happy with the quality of this ammo. 2 3/4 inch shells with 9 balls.

I used my Winchester model 120 with a 20 inch smoothbore barrel. I shot at 12 yards, 15 yards and then 20 yards. Excellent results at all three distances but I wouldn’t go beyond 20 yards in my own opinion with 9 balls of 00 Buc.

I also tried out number 6 steel shot at 20 yards on those 4 1/4 inch clay disc. Personally, I would have no problem using number 6 Steel shot for home defense.
At 20 yards standing up freehand, I was able to smash every disc on the first shot. I’m not sure how many number 6 steel balls are inside each shell, but clearly there was enough of them reaching that small clay disc at 20 yards.

Please see the pictures below for the results.






At 12 yds, all 9 balls hit.



At 15 yds, 8 balls hit.



At 20 yds, only 4 of the 9 balls hit.




Picture of the small 4 1/4 inch clays that I popped with #6 steel shot at 20 yds





Last edited by musicmatty; November 3, 2020 at 01:46 AM.
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Old November 3, 2020, 12:17 AM   #2
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Wondering about your self imposed max range limit, of 20 yds. Was the limit because of the pattern, the point of impact, or the foot-pounds of energy purpellet. If you are trying to keep all the pellets inside your house, I believe #6 would be a good choice. I also was wondering about which choke you were using. For self-defense inside the house, I would like a Mod.[#6], and a Cyl., or an Ext.Ful [00]. . .
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Old November 3, 2020, 01:33 AM   #3
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Steel shot is much less dense than lead shot. Many will argue that lead bird shot is inadequate for defense. That said, steel will be much worse.
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Old November 3, 2020, 01:38 AM   #4
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Wondering about your self imposed max range limt, of 20 yds. Was the limt because of the pattern, the point of impact, or the foot pounds of emergy purpellet.
My gun has a Smoothbore barrel with no choke. I tried this experiment after watching several videos on YouTube explaining how 00 buck beyond 20 yards would start to lose its effectiveness on target. Beyond 20 yards, the 8 or 9 balls really starts to fan out with no choke.

Insert a choke if you’re able to, and you most likely will have different results. Personally I was very happy with the results out to 20 yards for home defense. The longest stretch in my home is about 11 yards.
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Old November 3, 2020, 03:06 PM   #5
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Federal Flitecontrol is a thing of beauty.


I understand most shotguns come out of Turkey...But I just have a sinking feeling Black Aces is a scam for long term junk products.

Not to say their buckshot is that. But that spread would be nothing with Flightcontrol rounds.

Last edited by wild cat mccane; November 3, 2020 at 03:11 PM.
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Old November 3, 2020, 05:34 PM   #6
Jim Watson
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The shotgun has evolved from a "scattergun" for area coverage to kind of a musket with which we expect to put all shot (or a slug) on the target. Else we might get sued.

I've got shotguns but I also have a rifle with 20-30 individually amiable bullets.
Which will I pick up to address the home invader?
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Old November 3, 2020, 06:41 PM   #7
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Not to be annoying, but a buckshot is more effective at a tighter hit.

That it spreads is an event of a shotgun.

The most damage is done when it does not.
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Old November 19, 2020, 01:47 PM   #8
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I think that's why everyone says how great shotguns are for home defense. Just how far are you gonna shoot ? Across a 12 or 14 foot room ? That's within the OPs range. He was just reporting on the ammo, not if he should use a shotgun or rifle. And, that round ball buckshot will not go through as many walls that a rifle bullet will. Wild Cat, most cheap shotguns may be imported, but good quality guns aren't made in Turkey. I have Remingtons, Parkers, Lefevers, L.C. Smiths, etc that are well over a 100 years old and still working just fine. My buddies Tri-Star has the finish wearing off the receiver within months of buying it and shooting some skeet with it. So I wouldn't say most shotguns come out of Turkey. How about AYA, Beretta, Browning, Remington, Winchester, Stoger, Blaser, ,Perazzi, Krieghoff - the list goes on. Most cheap guns come from Turkey, the rest from somewhere else.
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Old November 19, 2020, 06:36 PM   #9
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. I agree with your distance comment, but I was calling Black Aces buckshot junk at distance as proven in this thread to not have a good pattern at a range "good" buckshot like Hornady or Federal wads would have kept it much tighter.. Ie, I was saying Black Aces (premium cost) appears equal to any low cost buck shot for spread. That they are hard copper is nice I guess, but that does win me over for that price. The comment that the bad spread was desired lead me to comment.

On Black Aces shotguns, I do think their shotguns are going to prove to be junk long term. It has nothing to do with country of origin. It might be worth it though if you aren't going heavy on them. If I'm wrong, those $400 semi that keeps coming up in gun.deals...I have my doubts about that long term, but a screaming deal. Will parts be non existent like a much larger companies Weatherby or CZ with their Turkey guns (ie you can't buy piston, barrel, or stock)? I would suspect. At $400 and reasonable function time, that juice might be worth the squeeze. I doubt it though.
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Old November 19, 2020, 10:34 PM   #10
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As Stalin stated when fighting Hitler, "quantity has a quality of its own!" I'd rather have 250 rounds of Black Ace Buckshot than 25 rounds of Federal flight control if society goes to hell in a hand basket. At close distances, spread is actually a desirable quality for buckshot. The only reason to have tight buck patterns is for added range.
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Old November 20, 2020, 06:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
As Stalin stated when fighting Hitler, "quantity has a quality of its own!" I'd rather have 250 rounds of Black Ace Buckshot than 25 rounds of Federal flight control if society goes to hell in a hand basket. At close distances, spread is actually a desirable quality for buckshot. The only reason to have tight buck patterns is for added range.

Finally, a voice of reason. Here at a time when you can’t find hardly anything on the shelves and some people want to split hairs when comparing apples to apples.
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Old November 20, 2020, 10:54 AM   #12
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The difference between Black Aces and the $5 per box Rio buckshot on Buds? By the evidence above, I wouldn't expect a single thing.

And it all comes at a premium price.


Knowing Buds has Rio at $5, my assessment is just fine that Black Aces isn't giving you value, accuracy, etc. If you're just happy to have something, fine. Saying you like the benefit of non discriminate shooting into neighbors/other Americans...that was your comment that will lock this thread. Not mine.

Last edited by wild cat mccane; November 20, 2020 at 11:02 AM.
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Old November 20, 2020, 12:59 PM   #13
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There is no place inside my home to take a 12 yard shot. Only a couple of places where a 5 yard shot would be possible, most would be 2-3 yards.

Don't take this as a criticism of a shotgun, it is not. But at those ranges I'd much rather have a handgun for a variety of reasons. And if it has to be a long gun I'd rather have my AR than a shotgun. The AR is lighter, shorter, is semi-auto and can be fired multiple times one handed if necessary. It has 6X the ammo available with 1/6 the recoil. At 5 yards or less the shotguns pattern is no advantage.

But a shotgun is still an important part of my HD kit. Where it shines is outdoors. From any door or window in my house it is 20-25 yards to my property line and with a clear field of fire of no more than 40 yards in any direction.

For moving targets at ranges from 5-10 yards up to 35-40 yards I can't think of anything better than buckshot. Including my AR. If ranges start pushing 30+ yards then buckshot patterns start to get pretty thin and a rifle starts to make sense. Of course that also depends on the choke. I have a 21" barrel that takes interchangeable tubes. With an IC or modified tube buckshot is still viable closer to 50 yards.
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Old November 21, 2020, 02:18 PM   #14
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jmr, you kind a criticize yourself. You say " Don't take this as a criticism of a shotgun, it is not. But at those ranges I'd much rather have a handgun for a variety of reasons. And if it has to be a long gun I'd rather have my AR than a shotgun. The AR is lighter, shorter, is semi-auto and can be fired multiple times one handed if necessary. It has 6X the ammo available with 1/6 the recoil. At 5 yards or less the shotguns pattern is no advantage." Then you say " For moving targets at ranges from 5-10 yards up to 35-40 yards I can't think of anything better than buckshot". Which way is it ? And you can go tell Winston I still load my 1911 the same way I did 10 years ago, and it still works - right.
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Old November 21, 2020, 02:39 PM   #15
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Sorry if I was sounding like a - didn't mean to.
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Old November 21, 2020, 04:18 PM   #16
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10 yards (30 feet) is the farthest straight distance inside my house before you have to turn a corner or enter another room. for defense inside my home an 18" bbl Mossberg 930 with any of the various buckshot loads will not pattern (open up) too much.
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Old November 21, 2020, 05:39 PM   #17
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10 yards (30 feet) is the farthest straight distance inside my house before you have to turn a corner or enter another room. for defense inside my home an 18" bbl Mossberg 930 with any of the various buckshot loads will not pattern (open up) too much.

Agreed. A quick YouTube search will show many videos demonstrating exactly what I did for patterns at these distances. The black aces tactical buckshot that I used for my demonstration, rendered a typical pattern for commonly used buckshot at the same distance with a smoothbore tactical shotgun.

I’ve never used this brand of buckshot before. All I can report is, after blasting 75 rounds through my shotguns, no failures yet to report. The longest straight distance in my home is 11 yards. I feel 100% confident using this ammo considering the patterns I shot a 12 and 15 yards using it.

Those who want to trash this ammo… go right ahead… I don’t own stock in it. The results I get using this ammo speaks for itself.


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Old November 21, 2020, 08:42 PM   #18
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is that an 8" shoot'n see for the buck shot pattern?
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Old November 21, 2020, 10:18 PM   #19
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A 12 gauge with 00 buck will dominate a handgun distance gunfight.

Prior to the event of flight control wads we trained that 15 yards was the max distance that all the pellets would be guaranteed to hit a man. I have seen people shot with 00 and slugs, it is devastating.
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Old Yesterday, 02:35 PM   #20
wild cat mccane
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All I was saying was your paying premium for Black Aces buckshot and not getting a premium wad like Federal Flightcontrol like the ones I have pictured with my Beretta 1301 Comp.

It's not like we expect buckshot to do anything less than shown in this thread. I think Rio buckshot at $5 is a better buy, or Nobel, or Sterling, etc. All in stock at Buds right now.


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Old Yesterday, 08:14 PM   #21
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Battling backgrounds. Too funny.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM   #22
musicmatty
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Quote:
All I was saying was your paying premium for Black Aces buckshot and not getting a premium wad like Federal Flightcontrol like the ones I have pictured with my Beretta 1301 Comp.
I’m certain after President Trump retains his presidency here in short order, ammo prices will drop rather quickly. Nonetheless, thanks for the Buds plug.
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Old Yesterday, 10:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by musicmatty View Post
I’m certain after President Trump retains his presidency here in short order, ammo prices will drop rather quickly. Nonetheless, thanks for the Buds plug.
I'll take that bet.
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Old Today, 01:40 AM   #24
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speech police

Hey Matty, Not to be "that guy", and we all know to what your OP was referring to, but......
buckshot projectiles are commonly, and I'd go so far to say, correctly, referred to as "pellets", not balls. So to with steel #6, being #6 pellets, or possibly #6 steel shot, again, not balls.

There are shotgun loads that do carry balls, the old Tri-Ball load being one, or the single "punkin ball" of my grandpa's era. These were near bore size and of much larger diameter and weight than any buckshot pellet. Firearms and shooting is a technical field and the correct terms offer clarity and give posts (and posters) more credibility.

Offering the above as friendly advice, glad you found a quantity of ammo and it certainly should serve the intended purpose, hope it doesn't come to that but glad you are prepared and have tested same.
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Old Today, 04:57 AM   #25
musicmatty
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Hey Matty, Not to be "that guy", and we all know to what your OP was referring to, but......
buckshot projectiles are commonly, and I'd go so far to say, correctly, referred to as "pellets", not balls. So to with steel #6, being #6 pellets, or possibly #6 steel shot, again, not balls.
Some people just love to split hairs so they can be heard You and I both joined this forum around the same time 11 years ago. Look how many post you have in 11 years compared to mine.

It’s probably time to lock this thread as it’s getting ridiculous.

Last edited by musicmatty; Today at 06:27 AM.
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