Speer's new 10mm Gold Dot. For defense, blah 10mm.

wild cat mccane · February 11, 2018, 05:18 PM

200gr at 1,100FPS showing the Gold Dot design probably shouldn't go higher for it's purpose. $20 for 20 rnds.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/ammuni...gr-gold-dot-hp

Stats Shooter · February 12, 2018, 02:03 AM

I have a G20, a m&p .40 and an m&p 40 shield.

Love the Speer gold dot SD ammo in my 40's. Love the Speer gold dot bullet for my 44mag reloads at 1400 fps.

But 1100 fps in a 10mm from a 200 gr bullet is lack luster.....not because 1100 fps isn't fast enough. Just that at at 1100 fps you might as well have a 40.

My 200 gr loads in my 10mm do 1250 fps, and with a different powder I could touch 1300.

Model12Win · February 12, 2018, 02:32 AM

Sorry, but if I'm going to rock a 10 mike mike, it's going to be loaded with Buff Bores or DTs, not this weak sauce.

wild cat mccane · February 12, 2018, 07:56 AM

But if you are buying the FXP for personal defense and it is super high FPS, FXP is a hunting bullet.

If you use the underwood, bb, or double tap "bonded" hps, those are Speer's cheaper Gold Dot alternatives (that are different in a less refined way). If Speer believe Gold Dots don't need huge FPS on Gold Dots, hot loading it's crappier offering of the Gold Dot technology suggests you aren't gaining much and just possibly making up for the fact they aren't Gold Dots...

I think these new Gold Dots are the best personal defense round in 10mm...which shows the 10mm isn't best for personal defense.

Lohman446 · February 12, 2018, 08:02 AM

So I have the option of shooting a proven self defense load from the 10MM for "urban" carry or a ultra-hot load for woods carry.

I'm not sure why the 10MM takes so much crap from so many people for being able to do both. These loads simply favor doing the former.

wild cat mccane · February 12, 2018, 08:19 AM

What I am saying, the 9mm HST is better than the Gold Dot as documented by ATK (former owner of Speer?) in several situations (windshield, expansion).

If there are no other premium hollow points in 10mm, and all current 10mm personal defense hollow points are loaded too hot for the bullet design, a 9mm in HST/40 HST or Gold Dot might be just as good/better for personal defense as any 10mm round.

Sure, the 10mm might be good as a hunter, but Speer is showing 10mm gives nothing to personal defense over 9mm or 40. After all, they design the 2nd best hollow point made and they themselves did not hot rod the velocity in their 10mm offering.

Lohman446 · February 12, 2018, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Sure, the 10mm might be good as a hunter, but Speer is showing 10mm gives nothing to personal defense over 9mm or 40.

If the Gold Dot in .40 is a good personal defense round and you load the 10MM to the same specification you still have to have a good personal defense round.

10MM just gives you the option of going hotter for other reasons.s

wild cat mccane · February 12, 2018, 09:05 AM

True that. But it also isn't better than 40-as being shown by Speer.

Lohman446 · February 12, 2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

True that. But it also isn't better than 40-as being shown by Speer.

Be equal to (but not better) than one of the premier .40 personal defense rounds is not a bad place to start.

To me that is the beauty of the 10MM. Not that it is better than .40 for personal defense. If we even accept that, with some loadings, it is equal to .40 for personal defense we have a really good baseline to start with

What 10MM does in my mind is gives you that great base and allows you to build off it (think the Buffalo Bore, DT, and Underwood loadings) for specific applications such as woods carry.

No one seems to worry that all .357 loads are not in Buffalo Bore territory but we do with 10MM. Why?

agtman · February 12, 2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Sorry, but if I'm going to rock a 10 mike mike, it's going to be loaded with Buff Bores or DTs, not this weak sauce.

Couldn't agree more.

A 200gn 10mm bullet, regardless of make, @ 1100fps is borderline ".40-level" energy.

Mislabeling it a "10mm," and then charging someone a $1.00 a round for downloaded performance out of the pricier 10mm case, should at least be considered some form of misdemeanor theft-by-deception.

Just buy a .40 pistol and the .40S&W ammo to feed it, and be done with it.

If Speer ever decides to made a proper 200gn 10mm load (1250fps-1280fps), be sure to wake me up. Then we'll have something interesting to talk about.

Stats Shooter · February 12, 2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

If Speer ever decides to made a proper 200gn 10mm load (1250fps-1280fps), be sure to wake me up. Then we'll have something interesting to talk about.

My load using the 200 gr Nosler JHP and hodgdon longshot hits 1250-1260 fps out of my 5.3" Alpha wolf barrel and just over 1200 fps in the factory glock 4.6" barrel. I could probably push it harder, perhaps hitting 1300 in my 5.3" barrel, but I would need to switch powders entirely to AA#9 or 800x and hand weigh each charge.

Oh, and Make sure to use new brass

disseminator · February 12, 2018, 10:29 PM

At least they are making the 200 grain bullet again, maybe we will see it as a component for re-loaders and then DT and BB and whoever can load them up to full power.

Their 200 TMJ disappeared a while ago as well, maybe they will bring it back.

Boom!

bamaranger · February 13, 2018, 03:21 AM

No experience with Speer, but the Federal 180 Hydro Shock's are weak sisters too.

Rob228 · February 13, 2018, 05:48 AM

Buffalo Bore is offering a 155 grain Barnes Tac XP round at 1350FPS at about $1.25 a round.

Stats Shooter · February 13, 2018, 09:05 AM

When I was developing my own 10mm loads, which included a weaker 180gr hard cast at 1300 fps for plinking, and a 1250 fps 200gr jhp, I fired several factory loads over the chronograph to see what factory full power loads did.

I also shot some target loads over the chronograph.

Here's what I found:
(5.3" barrel so 0.7" longer than factory glock barrel and tighter...and a 22# recoil spring)

Buffalo Bore does what it says it will do. I tried the low recoil stuff and the high power hard cast and their velocities were spot on.

Underwood was 50 fps below the 1250 they claimed in with a 200 gr jhp. I tried two different boxes/lots and they were 1200 fps in a 5.3" Alpha Wolf barrel and 1160ish in the factory glock barrel.

Double tap was slower also. In the 200 gr hard cast.

I fired some federal hydrashock and target ammo over the chroney and they hit the box flap velocity too, but they do not claim to be high velocity.

It was a small sample, but if I was buying factory 10mm for hunting or carry, I would buy buffalo bore. I will say Underwood was very accurate though and not "weak", just not as stout as buffalo bore.

However, my own load does fully utilize the 10mm's potential and I would bet my life on it.

agtman · February 13, 2018, 10:42 AM

All good info there. Thanks, Stats.

pelo801 · February 14, 2018, 06:43 PM

Just buy the 40 and be done with it? Is there even a 40 factory load with a 200 gr bullet? Let alone going 1100 fps?

pelo801 · February 14, 2018, 06:49 PM

I forgot about this
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...uct_list&c=142
But with most of the real world guns, this was still only getting into the upper 3/4 of the 900 fps range

agtman · February 14, 2018, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Just buy the 40 and be done with it? Is there even a 40 factory load with a 200 gr bullet? Let alone going 1100 fps?

Close, ... from DT, a 200gn Nosler JHP @ 1050fps from a Glock 23:

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.p...product_id=108

Note: DT's web page states 1100fps from a 4.5" barrel. Maybe a G22?

Sharkbite · February 14, 2018, 09:29 PM

I dont think the intent of this ammo is to take advantage of the 10mm cartridge, but rather to make ammo that is more suited to 2 legged critters. Think 10mm lite...thats been done before.

So, load this for urban carry, load full power stuff for trips into the woods. If anything this just shows the versatile nature of the 10mm ctg.

COSteve · February 15, 2018, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

I dont think the intent of this ammo is to take advantage of the 10mm cartridge, but rather to make ammo that is more suited to 2 legged critters. Think 10mm lite...thats been done before.

Yep, it's called 40s&w. That's why, even though I use my custom 6" 10mm for woods carry in the Rockies, I use 180grn Gold Dot equivalent handloads in a Glock 23 for my CCW and 45acp+P in a 6" custom for HD. Why carry the larger platform of the 10mm with 40s&w level loads in it?

Lohman446 · February 15, 2018, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Yep, it's called 40s&w. That's why, even though I use my custom 6" 10mm for woods carry in the Rockies, I use 180grn Gold Dot equivalent handloads in a Glock 23 for my CCW and 45acp+P in a 6" custom for HD. Why carry the larger platform of the 10mm with 40s&w level loads in it?

For those who choose something like a G29 as a do everything gun this type of load has a very solid place. Some people do not want to buy a 10MM and then also a .40.

Not all .357 Magnums have an 8" barrel and not all 10MM are full size handguns.

The condescension of 10MM shooters to anyone not shooting their favorite "nuclear" round probably does more to hurt the 10MM cartridge then anything else.

Sharkbite · February 15, 2018, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Why carry the larger platform of the 10mm with 40s&w level loads in it?

For the same reason people shoot 38spl loads out of 686’s and GP100’s. Why do that when you could shoot a 642 or Detective special?

wild cat mccane · February 15, 2018, 10:14 AM

But that is the same gun.

At $1 a shot, what's the point for 40 levels?

Seems like spend money on a 40, buy 40 ammo, and then buy the boutique hot 40 that step into the middle of the 10mm FPS world.

Without reloading, the 10mm has very few 10mm level rounds hotter than 40.

Lohman446 · February 15, 2018, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Without reloading, the 10mm has very few 10mm level rounds hotter than 40.

But the few it has, be it from Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, or whoever, are readily available. With internet options and shipping very few and unavailable are very different things

The $1 a round is not that far off from high quality defensive ammo in the common calibers.

February 11, 2018, 05:18 PM	#1
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	Speer's new 10mm Gold Dot. For defense, blah 10mm. 200gr at 1,100FPS showing the Gold Dot design probably shouldn't go higher for it's purpose. $20 for 20 rnds. https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/ammuni...gr-gold-dot-hp

February 13, 2018, 03:21 AM	#13
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	Federal No experience with Speer, but the Federal 180 Hydro Shock's are weak sisters too.

February 12, 2018, 02:03 AM	#2
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	I have a G20, a m&p .40 and an m&p 40 shield. Love the Speer gold dot SD ammo in my 40's. Love the Speer gold dot bullet for my 44mag reloads at 1400 fps. But 1100 fps in a 10mm from a 200 gr bullet is lack luster.....not because 1100 fps isn't fast enough. Just that at at 1100 fps you might as well have a 40. My 200 gr loads in my 10mm do 1250 fps, and with a different powder I could touch 1300.

February 12, 2018, 02:32 AM	#3
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Sorry, but if I'm going to rock a 10 mike mike, it's going to be loaded with Buff Bores or DTs, not this weak sauce.

February 12, 2018, 07:56 AM	#4
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	But if you are buying the FXP for personal defense and it is super high FPS, FXP is a hunting bullet. If you use the underwood, bb, or double tap "bonded" hps, those are Speer's cheaper Gold Dot alternatives (that are different in a less refined way). If Speer believe Gold Dots don't need huge FPS on Gold Dots, hot loading it's crappier offering of the Gold Dot technology suggests you aren't gaining much and just possibly making up for the fact they aren't Gold Dots... I think these new Gold Dots are the best personal defense round in 10mm...which shows the 10mm isn't best for personal defense.

February 12, 2018, 08:02 AM	#5
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	So I have the option of shooting a proven self defense load from the 10MM for "urban" carry or a ultra-hot load for woods carry. I'm not sure why the 10MM takes so much crap from so many people for being able to do both. These loads simply favor doing the former.

February 12, 2018, 08:19 AM	#6
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	What I am saying, the 9mm HST is better than the Gold Dot as documented by ATK (former owner of Speer?) in several situations (windshield, expansion). If there are no other premium hollow points in 10mm, and all current 10mm personal defense hollow points are loaded too hot for the bullet design, a 9mm in HST/40 HST or Gold Dot might be just as good/better for personal defense as any 10mm round. Sure, the 10mm might be good as a hunter, but Speer is showing 10mm gives nothing to personal defense over 9mm or 40. After all, they design the 2nd best hollow point made and they themselves did not hot rod the velocity in their 10mm offering.

February 12, 2018, 09:05 AM	#8
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	True that. But it also isn't better than 40-as being shown by Speer.

February 12, 2018, 10:29 PM	#12
disseminator Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 960	At least they are making the 200 grain bullet again, maybe we will see it as a component for re-loaders and then DT and BB and whoever can load them up to full power. Their 200 TMJ disappeared a while ago as well, maybe they will bring it back. Boom!

February 13, 2018, 05:48 AM	#14
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	Buffalo Bore is offering a 155 grain Barnes Tac XP round at 1350FPS at about $1.25 a round.

February 13, 2018, 09:05 AM	#15
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	When I was developing my own 10mm loads, which included a weaker 180gr hard cast at 1300 fps for plinking, and a 1250 fps 200gr jhp, I fired several factory loads over the chronograph to see what factory full power loads did. I also shot some target loads over the chronograph. Here's what I found: (5.3" barrel so 0.7" longer than factory glock barrel and tighter...and a 22# recoil spring) Buffalo Bore does what it says it will do. I tried the low recoil stuff and the high power hard cast and their velocities were spot on. Underwood was 50 fps below the 1250 they claimed in with a 200 gr jhp. I tried two different boxes/lots and they were 1200 fps in a 5.3" Alpha Wolf barrel and 1160ish in the factory glock barrel. Double tap was slower also. In the 200 gr hard cast. I fired some federal hydrashock and target ammo over the chroney and they hit the box flap velocity too, but they do not claim to be high velocity. It was a small sample, but if I was buying factory 10mm for hunting or carry, I would buy buffalo bore. I will say Underwood was very accurate though and not "weak", just not as stout as buffalo bore. However, my own load does fully utilize the 10mm's potential and I would bet my life on it.

February 13, 2018, 10:42 AM	#16
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	All good info there. Thanks, Stats.

February 14, 2018, 06:43 PM	#17
pelo801 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Posts: 718	Just buy the 40 and be done with it? Is there even a 40 factory load with a 200 gr bullet? Let alone going 1100 fps?

February 14, 2018, 06:49 PM	#18
pelo801 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Posts: 718	I forgot about this https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...uct_list&c=142 But with most of the real world guns, this was still only getting into the upper 3/4 of the 900 fps range

February 14, 2018, 09:29 PM	#20
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	I dont think the intent of this ammo is to take advantage of the 10mm cartridge, but rather to make ammo that is more suited to 2 legged critters. Think 10mm lite...thats been done before. So, load this for urban carry, load full power stuff for trips into the woods. If anything this just shows the versatile nature of the 10mm ctg.

February 15, 2018, 10:14 AM	#24
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	But that is the same gun. At $1 a shot, what's the point for 40 levels? Seems like spend money on a 40, buy 40 ammo, and then buy the boutique hot 40 that step into the middle of the 10mm FPS world. Without reloading, the 10mm has very few 10mm level rounds hotter than 40.