Buckshot or Birdshot?

[ramp_tech]

So my friend decided to conduct an in-house experiment this past weekend on the subject of "HD shotgun ammo".

He built two wood stand (window-size) with dry wall on both sides of them, then placed them 3~4 feet apart, which made one of them as interior wall and another is the exterior one.

He fired his 12 ga Charles Daley into the walls while positioning himself ~4 feet away.

First two shots were : Federal Strut-Shok Turkey Load, 3-1/2", #4 Lead, 2 oz., 1300 fp.
Results: Full penetration @ the first wall-stand, all pellet stopped at the interior side of the second wall. Since he wasn't far from the wall, most pellets still hit in a fist-size radius, pretty good punch IMO.

Second two shots were: Remington Express Buckshot, 2-3/4" Shell, #00 Buck, 9 Pellets @ 1325 fps
Results: Full penetration of both interior and exterior wall. Close grouping in the first wall but in 4small holes+2 bigger holes, similar pattern displayed in the second wall (6 small holes, 1 bigger hole).


(I will post the photos tonight)
Conclusion:
I don't think I will use buckshot for HD anymore.
I will be using a combo of birdshot for close quarter defense scenario and slug for out door defense scenario.

[ar15chase]

I dont load buckshot in mine when my kids are home, I use #4 turkey loads.

[bwheasler]

My uncle ,way before I was born, was killed with a blast of birdshot back in the forties. Came to see his girlfriend, her mother thought he was a burglar. Oh yeah, KNOW YOUR TARGET!

[Para Bellum]

Buckshot against homo sapiens if you MUST use a shotgun.
.223 for home defense!

[hogdogs]

Using dry wall as your substrate signifies 2 interior walls. To create an exterior wall you need one sheet of 5/8ths (some rip off builders may use 1/2 but rare), minimum of R-32 fiberglass insulation, 1/2 inch layer OSB, either a layer of felt paper or tyvek home wrap, and a final surface of vinyl siding, or stucco at minimum. Little more realistic.
Brent

[hogdogs]

Ramp, Ante up the dollars and come see me. We will hang 100-200 pound dead hogs (skinned) and shoot them with any number of various loads you wish. When you find the one you like for 10-12 yard wound channel and you will leave with no less than #2-3 buckshot.
Simply negating collateral damage is wrong. If it were correct we would all use fisticuffs to end home invasions. The paramount priority is to "STOP THE THREAT" Nothing less is advisable.
As I also say... nothing negates risk of overpenetration like a squishy torso... Don't miss the BG and the risk of over penetration is highly reduced.
Brent

[Carne Frio]

Check out theboxotruth.com they tested shotgun ammo on boards.
Then draw you own conclusion.

[masterhunter]

Dead Coyote...........

[Creature]

Simply negating collateral damage is wrong. If it were correct we would all use fisticuffs to end home invasions. The paramount priority is to "STOP THE THREAT" Nothing less is advisable.
As I also say... nothing negates risk of overpenetration like a squishy torso... Don't miss the BG and the risk of over penetration is highly reduced.

What hogdogs wrote was worth repeating.

No less than 00 Buck for me.

[MagnumWill]

Look here!

Now that I have your attention, look at this website. This'll tell you everything you wanna know about this subject.

http://www.shadonet.com/2008/01/choo...-home-defense/

[wnycollector]

Another vote for buckshot here. I have fiocchi 00 low recoil loaded in my maverick 88. I have also patterned both fiocchi and nobel sport No. 4 buck in it as well. No.4 makes a really mean looking 8-10" ring with 27 little .24 cal holes.

[inSight-NEO]

I prefer low-recoil 00 Buck as I'm thinking that it has the benefits of great stopping power, yet not quite as penetrative as higher velocity 00 Buck. However, compared to birdshot, even the low-recoil stuff will be more penetrative.

But, then again, those of us who would also use a large caliber handgun for HD would have penetration issues to think of as well (in addition, a possibly higher likelihood of missing a shot...or many more). This is, of course, why blind firing is such a definate no-no..even when it comes to shotguns.

Regardless, Id go with buckshot.

[rantingredneck]

I worry more about where the bad guy is shooting. My preference is to stop him immediately if not sooner. Closest thing to immediate stoppage is a healthy dose of large buckshot. In my case 9 pellets of Federal 00 in a flite control shotcup.

Know thy target and what lies beyond it. Swapping ammo doesn't absolve you of that responsibility.

[STAGE 2]

Any round designed to surpass the mimimum levels of penetration for adequate sef defense is going to make swiss cheese out of your interior walls. There are plenty of examples of birdshot not incapacitating people. It is not a defense round.

[LordofWar]

00 Buckshot it is.

[jmr40]

Great link MagnumWill.

Using birdshot for should be used only as a last resort. As in I ran out of buckshot.

If I ever have to pull the trigger on an intruder it will only be because I consider them to be a greater threat than any collateral damage I may do.

By its very nature buckshot loads are already meant to be a safer alternative than more powerful rounds. After a fairly short distance they loose energy much quicker than rifle rounds. Sure they may penetrate 2 layers of drywall, but by then they will already have slowed to the point where they will be far less destructive.

[Evyl Robot]

What about frangible buck shot?

http://www.iccammo.com/products.htm

--Michael

[ppro]

You might want to check out this link, over at Shotgunworld forum:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=7&t=109958

If you have trouble with the link, go to Shotgunworld.com go to the Tactical / HD forum go to the 12 gauge wound profiles at the top of the forum and check it out.

Exc gel test of birdshot, slugs and buck.

Remember, gel, may well show slightly overall more penetration than a regular tissue target, but other than that, these are some of the best shotgun gel tests I have seen, including reduced recoil slugs etc.

enjoy

Paul

[Kmar40]

I used to load birdshot, but then it became apparent that birdshot penetrates interior walls pretty easily. Now I just remove all the shot from the shell and just shoot the wadding and packing at the bad guys. I've been thinking about using that secret sugary stuff inside pixie sticks. It would at least mark the bad guys so the cops would know who it was that killed me and my family.

[Kmar40]

Obviously that was sarcasm. You don't pick handguns ammo by seeing what one won't penetrate drywall. It shouldn't enter your mind in a shotgun argument either. You should pick your shotgun ammo exactly the same way you pick handgun ammo in fact, look for ammo with deep enough penetration to ensure that you stop the badguy assuming you do your part.

Hint: birdshot ain't it, in either handguns or shotguns.

[Lee Lapin]

It's your decision to make, for whatever reasons you care to make it. I use Federal LE-127 00 in the magazine and Brenneke KO 1-ounce slugs in the Sidesaddle.

IMHO the best bet is to have all your loved ones under cover behind you and your shotgun if trouble happens, and prepare your 'fatal funnels' in advance in the event of misses or overpenetration. Loaded bookshelves, filing cabinets, heavy furniture, decorative stone or brick interior walls, etc...

lpl

[Housezealot]

I dont load buckshot in mine when my kids are home, I use #4 turkey loads

+1

Some times I have to laugh when we get to debating shotgun ammo for HD.
I love when guys are talking about staggering slugs and buckshot in there mag tube or what they carry in their side saddle (I am not trying to be a jerk, one of my shotguns is tacticool, I'll admit it) but who exactly do we expec to break into our houses? I had somebody tell me the other day that they keep some bird bombs in his side saddle in case he needs to lob one down the hall as a distraction! do we think we are going to have a squad of former green berets break in. my guess is that if, God forbid, I ever have to touch off a gun in my house its going to be against a thief or crackhead. and in all reality I'll probably be blind and deaf following the first shot.

[hogdogs]

Not so blind... My shot gun makes a small dark orange muzzle flash. Deaf? Yes!
Not expecting an armored intruder but given various seasons could be wearing alot of energy absorbing clothing. Just like hog doggin... I use bulldogs to catch the hog because the curr dogs just ain't got the knock down power even if heavier than the bulldog. Right dog for the right job just like ammo... But I do concede most home invaders are "turkeys"!
Brent

[45Marlin carbine]

I have a sxs 'coach' gun I keep loaded with hi-brass #6 right bbl and 3" mag 00 left.
I have a pistol back-up, I sure would hate to have to blast anyone at all but an intruder at night is likely gonna get the #6 to legs and if I see any sort of weapon to the face.

[RockyTop]

Some times I have to laugh when we get to debating shotgun ammo for HD.
I love when guys are talking about staggering slugs and buckshot in there mag tube or what they carry in their side saddle (I am not trying to be a jerk, one of my shotguns is tacticool, I'll admit it) but who exactly do we expec to break into our houses? I had somebody tell me the other day that they keep some bird bombs in his side saddle in case he needs to lob one down the hall as a distraction! do we think we are going to have a squad of former green berets break in. my guess is that if, God forbid, I ever have to touch off a gun in my house its going to be against a thief or crackhead. and in all reality I'll probably be blind and deaf following the first shot.

I'm all for personal/self defense and people having as many guns as they'd like. But...I agree. I get considerable entertainment reading quite a few forums on the net about some people's plans. No doubt it's good to have well thought out plan, but some situations are rather amusing.

Kind of like the average Joe that has a 9-5 job working at some cubicle who has a ccw and carries a couple of bug's. More power to 'em, but really, what's the odds they'll need one bug, let alone two? I also imagine them sitting at their cubicle and suddenly some terrorist overtakes the office building and after average Joe exhausts his main ccw and primary bug, finally has to run through broken shards of glass to confront the main terrorist and at the last moment reaches for his secondary bug that is taped to his back and saves the day.

I guess you never know, it could happen.