Conspiracy threads

[maestro pistolero]

It may be better served to actually HAVE a "Conspiracy Theory" "Fiction" dedicated thread, and LABELED as such. Seriously. Then posts that fit the criteria could simple be moved there. The mods should consider this option. -Goodspeed

Respectfully disagree. There is no shortage of sites on the internet for this subject. Entertaining it here serves no purpose to our cause, IMnevertobeHO

Mount their heads, and one or two examples of their particular folly, for all to see on a read-only BUSTED thread!

[dm1333]

I voted delete them. I'd like at least one internet forum to be free of conspiracy theory.

[BrunoNorway]

Earlier, I said: Comments should be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.

Maybe I should have said: Comments will be restricted to why you voted the way you did, or why you didn't vote at all.

Well this isnt realy your thread, now is it?

[Webleymkv]

I voted to lock them for lack of a better option in the poll. Some of the conspiracy threads, while they violate the forum rules and should be closed, still contain useful info about current legislation etc. However, I have no problem with deletion of threads like the one in this link as they have no useful information in them. I guess I really wanted to vote to lock some and delete others.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=335136

[azredhawk44]

Some of these "conspiracy" posts have turned out to have at least a kernel of truth to them.

One in particular that comes to mind, earlier lamented as intertard ramblings, was The Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP), aka the North American Union.

It is now actively being fought for and against on both sides, and incorporates such concepts as currency and identification standards.

My vote was to leave them visible if they are locked, since a large number of them by different users could indicate that something indeed is worthy of our attention.

[Hirlau]

Conspiracy threads are as worthless as "Tits On A Bull !"

[alloy]

it must be a question of degrees, because i see the conspiracy thread as equal to the SHTF threads. Which i see equal to the topping off the magazine threads and carrying a hi cap with two spares, what would you do if gangbangers raid your farm threads and my caliber is bigger than yours. all i figure at about 1,000,000 to 1. (unless someone is a police or soldier)

but i do get a kick out of them so i voted to keep locking them.

Alert...a left wing version of a conspiracy theorist says "its a right wing conspiracy"

[grymster2007]

I voted to lock and leave, but don't lock 'em too soon. Allow us a little entertainment by leaving them open long enough for some of our funnier members to respond. WAs recent commentary, that had him doing things like taping a Seecamp to the back of his neck in case SWMBO gets frisky, amount to good, cheap fun. Don't deny us that.

[Tennessee Gentleman]

I voted to delete them off the forum. The first reason is because I do not believe they (conspiracies) are true. The second reason they should be removed is that they make gun owners look like kooks when people read them. Tom Gresham won't discuss them on his show Guntalk and I think he presents a good face for gun owners. We should be too.

[Al Norris]

Originally Posted by BrunoNorway

Well this isnt realy your thread, now is it?

What? You mean I lost control, so soon?

Originally Posted by grymster2007

Well this isnt realy your thread, now is it? ...cheap fun. Don't deny us that.

That would be, this thread, yes?

[kirpi97]

Originally Posted by:Tennessee Gentleman
because I do not believe they (conspiracies) are true.

That is why they are conspiracy theories. They hold little truth and then create a fictional realm of possibilities.

Originally Posted by:Tennessee Gentleman
they make gun owners look like kooks when people read them

To those who see gun owners as kooks, the conspiracy theories provide no additional ammunition. They already think that. And any theory, conspiracy or not, will not change their mind.

Conspiracy theories are the realm of possibilities. Unless they are backed up with facts, which they rarely are, they survive only to amuse the believer. When they become of a nature that they expound hatred, bigotry, anarchy, etc., then they cease to be theory of any sort. And become a platform of ideology. Which then I agree should be removed and stamped out.

But as I protect my 2nd Amendment Rights, so I honor the 1st Amendment. As long as it doesn't infringe on my right to speak.

[KChen986]

For some reason, the uninformed think touching a gun will turn people in to raging maniacs.

I say delete them, so that people who come across here see us for who we are: balanced, thoughtful people who enjoy guns.

Leaving up the conspiracy threads may help anti-gunners confirm their bias, and I'm not for that.

[Playboypenguin]

To those who see gun owners as kooks, the conspiracy theories provide no additional ammunition. They already think that. And any theory, conspiracy or not, will not change their mind.

You are making the fatal mistake of assuming "everyone hates us already, so why care how we come across." The vast majority of people have no opinions regarding gun control what-so-ever. Like the people I have introduced to shooting and then tried to introduce to the forums. They come here with a positive opinions of guns but then leave with a negative opinion of gun owners.

[IZinterrogator]

Delete them. They're nothing but noise, put gun owners in a bad light, and take up valuable space on the server that could be used to discuss important manners such as 9mm vs. .45ACP or 1911 vs. Glock.

[Evan Thomas]

I voted to delete them.

What PBP said in his first post:

They really do detract from the mission of this board to promote healthy and safe firearms ownership and to portray gun owners in a positive light.

I'm often amused by them, but that's not really the point. Leaving them up, even locked, gives some of these nutty ideas more exposure, and so more credibility with the faint-of-mind...

And, yes, ban repeat offenders.

[Mike Irwin]

I'm just going to say one thing in general about conspiracy theories.

Large, overreaching conspiracies are always false.

Until they are proven to be true.

Two that pop immediately to mind...

The Government's testing of nuclear materials, including plutonium, on unsuspecting citizens in the 1950s.

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, where syphilis suffers, most of them poor and black, were denied treatments that could cure them simply because government doctors wanted to watch the disease progress naturally.

We've talked about conspiracy theories here before, and one thing I cautioned then was don't be so quick to label every outlandish sounding conspiracy theory as being total hokum.

Yes, they probably are, especially when they're "backed up" with "proof" like The Towers were brought down in controlled demolition blasts, not by the airplanes, because the air planes would have caused them to tip over like trees, or it's a conspiracy because no structural steel building has ever collapsed because of fire before.

But we know that our government keeps secrets. And it's always good to ask what might those secrets be hiding.

[nate45]

Since it was reopened to the unwashed masses, in general, the overall quality content of the Law and Civil Rights forum has declined.

This decline includes the starting of threads that clearly don't fit the guidelines and parameters of the new L&CR forum (conspiracy, blatantly political, etc). However, the quality has also been diminished, by some persons, who feel the need to post even though they clearly lack sufficient knowledge of the subject and/or the writing skills needed for making lucid, meaningful contributions.

So while the moderators have been doing a good job, especially since the addition of Mike Irwin to the staff, my suggestion would be to delete the offending post and to PM the offender with a stern warning and a strong suggestion that they read and understand the rules. I also think the same should be done with off topic posts and ones which contain an embarrassing lack of command of the english language and/or knowledge of the subject at hand.

[kirpi97]

Playboypenguin

You are making the fatal mistake of assuming "everyone hates us already, so why care how we come across." The vast majority of people have no opinions regarding gun control what-so-ever. Like the people I have introduced to shooting and then tried to introduce to the forums. They come here with a positive opinions of guns but then leave with a negative opinion of gun owners.

I never once assumed or believed that "everyone" hates us. That in itself would be a conspiracy theory. Only that those, who are already predisposed to want to ban guns, reading, a little conspiracy thread, is not going to sway them one way or the other.

Here I beg to take exception. I do not believe, in the world in which we live today, that a "vast majority" of Americans have "no" opinion concerning gun rights. If that were the case, the NRA and others just as well fold up their tents and go home. The majority of Americans do have an opinion. And thank God it is for the right to own and bear arms. The day that changes your conspiracy theorists may have a point.

How many of your friends have entered this forum with a positive opinion of gun owners and because of a conspiracy thread they left with a negative opinion? Not one friend, that I introduced to this forum, has left this forum because of a conspiracy theory thread. If they don't wish to read it, they don't. And most of the time, like myself, we don't even find the silly thread to begin with. Please provide specifics. If we have lost members due to these threads, then you have grounds to show cause.

The only clown I am aware of that left the forum in a huff was a clown who posted a conspiracy thread and was shot down by the members. The members themselves are the best policing we have. They will do more to show that we are not kooks. And when these clowns leave, we have lost nothing. We granted them their rights and we exercised our rights.

So as you can see. I am for neither option. I could care less if they are deleted. But I really do not wish them to remain on the site "locked" from retorts from the members. If we cannot respond to demonstrate the foolishness of their premise, then there is no benefit with the post even being displayed. The right of the people to condemn ignorance is a right I support.

Here is an example of what I mean.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=335136

This thread has been terminated. So leaving it hanging there does no real service. It may give the impression that we have a few loons. But by not allowing a rebuttal, one is left with only one side. We can limit conspiracy theorist and theories to their own forum. And place up a caution sign, "Check aluminum foil hats, common sense, and your intelligence at the door." And then let the members choose to indulge or not. I think for the most part, there will be hurt feelings. But we will weed out the kooks.

I am beginning to change my mind to deleting them all together as I am beginning to see no real solution.


We can agree to disagree concerning these points. That is what I love about this site and this country.

[Dust Monkey]

I say leave them for everybody to read. When folks on this forum debunk said discussions, it speaks volumes, letting any lurkers know that we pro gunners do not think in that manner. It will serve to bring attention that we will not tolerate tin foil hat material. Let's show them who we are by policing ourselves.

[Al Norris]

Originally Posted by kirpi97

This thread has been terminated. So leaving it hanging there does no real service.

Actually, most closed threads do serve a purpose. It lets the general membership know what is acceptable and what is not.

Many people don't need to be told. Some need an example ... or two. Some few others simply won't get it and end up being shown the door.

Then there's always the nube. They blast onto the scene with their hyper important news, only to be shot down, because they haven't bothered to look at the thread titles on the first index page, let alone do a search.

Then there are the type of folk who absolutely have to argue about what someone else said, when the topic of the thread is what do you, the general members of TFL, want us mods of L&CR to do with conspiracy threads.

You kirpi97, don't agree with PBP. So? That's off topic, and you've done your best to drag the thread with you.

Ordinarily, I would just delete your post and send you a warning. But since this entire thread is off topic (and an experiment, to boot), I'll just leave it as is. Any questions or responses, should be sent via PM, not this thread.

[Wildalaska]

Oy, try to be haimish and the schleppers come out of the woodwork!

Actually Al the correct term would be kibbitzer instead of shlepper. To shlep is to move slowly

You are a heymish mensch though

WildtheresidentschtarkerAlaska TM

Sorry to argue with you, but wouldnt want Chuckie Schumer to think we are not only conspiracy loons, but poor yiddish speakers too

[Shell]

I agree with: they take up space and we can't respond, so.....

[hillbillyshooter]

so what is the leftist version of a black helicopter theorist?

= www.BradyCampaign.org

voted to lock and keep them, but would rather like to see them argued and dispelled

[Big Don]

I voted to leave them twisting in the wind. We will always have the ham-handed types that, as Al said, can't wait to get the latest news onto the forum and don't bother to do a search first. Let them learn by having the thread locked, pronto, so their public embarrassment is there for all to see.
Yes, we will have those who don't care and they'll be shown the door, hopefully to never darken it again. I receive gobs of emails concerning the latest "outrage" and have used TFL to debunk some because of the number of people who read and contribute here. The locked threads help me with that chore and if they're cast into the ether, I won't necessarily know what the status is of that particular "outrage."
Leave 'em hanging at the castle gate and run the OP through with a sharp PM from the mods.

[Fremmer]

Instead of just locking these threads, and leaving them as land mines throughout the section, why not just delete them? They really do detract from the mission of this board to promote healthy and safe firearms ownership and to portray gun owners in a positive light.

Our members are intelligent enough to realize what constitutes a "conspiracy thread", and to make up their own minds about how seriously to take every thread. They do not require additional deletion, content review, or any additional post-locking limitation on the expression of ideas, as unpopular as they may be. We are free men who can make up our own minds without the purported aid of a deletion-babysitter.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, especially the mods or the owner of this Forum. But I would respectfully assert that we've got plenty of thread-locking already, and additional action is neither necessary nor beneficial.

By the way, the mainstream media and/or those who hate guns are not going to be swayed by the the content of this Forum, rational, irrational, cospiratorial, or otherwise. And many Americans are simply ambivalent about the Second Amendment/guns/hunting/etc. But we should not censor the content of our ideas in a vain effort to satisfy people who really are not worried about what we say here in the first place. And the others are going to want "sensible" and "common-sense" gun control, no matter what we say.

Locking a conspiracy thread (especially with a mod comment about the prohibition against conspiracy threads) is the perfect remedy, and additional censorship in the form of deletion is both unwarranted and harmful to the free exchange of ideas in a dedicated firearms community.

JMHO. And thanks for letting me freely express my opinion on this matter.