Help Indentifying a (really)Long Barrel Luger

FinalJenemba · January 7, 2014, 01:28 AM

Need some help on this one. This gun belongs to a friend of my fathers, who doesn't know much about firearms outside of hunting. I'm no expert on Luger's by any estimation, so I have no idea what im looking at here. He needs money and want's to sell it, and since im the "gun guy" in the family, it was offered to me.

It's not really my cup of tea for what he thinks it's worth, but my mind could probably be changed if it turned out to be a particularly interesting firearm. He's convinced it's got something to do with WW2, but the pearl grips and ridiculous barrel make me seriously doubt that. I don't have access to the pistol and have yet to see the thing in person, these pics my father took are all I have to go on, any ideas?

Thanks!

Quentin2 · January 7, 2014, 01:50 AM

I'm no expert but it's a mixed parts gun. And it's not a WWII model. The toggle is WWI (DWM) and has a different number than the takedown lever. I didn't see other numbers. It looks refinished and the old long barrel artillery models from WWI had different rear sights. So with that barrel and the other warts I doubt if it's worth much over any "shooter" Luger, which is under $1000. I wouldn't be interested for sure.

JT-AR-MG42 · January 7, 2014, 06:16 AM

You don't mention what he thinks it's worth (more than 400?) or what you might be interested in it for, i.e. collecting, shooting?

Quenton is correct that it looks to be a re-finished parts gun. I'd be surprised if there were any proofs left on the receiver at all.
Many WWI Lugers were used and carried during the Second World War, but I doubt that one (in that configuration) was.

Just a few observations of note to me.
Pic 1. The Jay Scott wood laminated imitation grips. Made during the 50's and 60's IIRC. Those are definitely not MOP grips.

Pic 3. Hope you can post back on that barrel length. I kinda like it!
I feel pretty safe in calling it an aftermarket even with the 'crappy cellphone' pictures.
Never have seen a carbine barrel that did not have a ramp front sight. Luger barrels (with the exception of the carbines) had a tapered and integral increased diameter
muzzle lug that held the dovetailed front sight.
The gun you show looks to have a barrel band front sight instead.

Pic 3 & 4. These are the ones that would keep me from getting too worked up over it. Both photos show quite a gap between the bolt and receiver/barrel face.
It could be that the bolt is slightly retracted or just poor lighting. I'd sure look that over though.

When I'm handed a gun like that one at a show, I simply look it over for a moment and politely say 'interesting, but I think I'll pass'.

I've been wrong before, JT

RJay · January 7, 2014, 08:10 AM

That Luger never left the factory in that condition, it is a fantasy gun and not a very well done one at that, Hans Solo would never carry something like that or even let the Wookie carry it. There's is no question that the overly long barrel is after market along with the Jay Scott grips and the fact that the gun has been polished and refinished. As stated, perhaps a nice shooting gun but I doubt even that, that barrel would throw off the balance.

Jim Watson · January 7, 2014, 09:02 AM

There is good news and bad news.
Bad: The gun has been buffed and hot blued. You can only hope that the buffing did not affect the fit of operating parts. Then there are the glamorous Jay Scott plastic "pearl" grips with characteristic wood backing. Ick.

Good: This may be a 1920 Commercial, stock except for the shiny shiny blue and fake pearls. Built out of WW I surplus guns and unfinished parts, they can be found in every imaginable and some unimaginable configurations. Barrels up to 20" long have been found. Many, but not all of the ludicrously long barrels have tangent sights like an Artillery. Some have ramp sights like a carbine, but not all.

I am pretty sure it had nothing do to with WW II.

I would show it over on the Luger board. After the experts got through laughing at the blue and pearl, they might have some solid information about the Pinnochio barrel.

PetahW · January 7, 2014, 10:16 AM

.

W/O a clear pic of the backstrap, showing the cuts for buttstock attachment, I would question that the pictured Parabellum started life as a Carbine (model).

.

FinalJenemba · January 7, 2014, 10:50 AM

Thanks guys, you've all pretty much verified my first instincts. To answer a couple questions, he's asking $1000 for it, im pretty sure he thinks its an important piece of history. Not sure I want to tell him the truth, he's had it for years apparently. And no, I wasn't really interested in it, if I found out it was an interesting history piece I could have changed my mind, but a refinished parts gun? Not so much.

James K · January 7, 2014, 03:43 PM

At one point Stoeger and Numrich offered Luger barrels of various lengths, for installation by the local friendly gunsmith.

I wonder if that pistol works. The Luger is a recoil operated pistol, which means that the barrel has to move and that one looks long and heavy enough that its inertia could keep the gun from functioning.

While it has value to the owner and a certain curio interest, it has zero collector value. IMHO, it has no practical value, even if it works. (Not the thing for IWB carry!) A lot of money has been spent on it in the past to create something that a previous owner wanted, but that does not translate to dollars today.

Jim

PetahW · January 7, 2014, 07:23 PM

.

Yep - One man's treasure is another man's trash..........

.

James K · January 7, 2014, 08:47 PM

The trouble is that it is not trash, and that is the problem with guns like that. It is not valueless, and might be worth good money to the right person. But generally guns fall into one of two categories - practical shooting guns and collecting guns. I guess there is, or should be, a third category, novelty guns, guns that exist only because at some time someone thought they were "cool". That gun is in the "cool" category, but only if a buyer has the same idea of "cool".

At $300, someone might buy it and replace the barrel with something reasonable to make it a shooter. But at $1000, I think most potential buyers would pass.

Jim

gyvel · January 9, 2014, 03:20 PM

Jim K is right. That is someone's novelty item.

The good news is that the barrel looks to be at least 16" long, which means you could shoot it with a shoulder stock and BATF can't do anything about it.

Regarding ammo, the original ammo for the Luger carbines was significantly hotter than standard ammo to ensure proper operation of the recoil operated action. Due to this, an auxiliary recoil spring was included inside the wooden forearm.

As far as selling it, let your father's friend try to sell it on his own. Perhaps then he will learn the realities of "the market." (However, you never know; There may be somone stupid enough to pay $1000.00 for it.)

January 7, 2014, 01:28 AM	#1
FinalJenemba Member Join Date: April 18, 2013 Location: Port Richey, FL Posts: 25	Help Indentifying a (really)Long Barrel Luger Need some help on this one. This gun belongs to a friend of my fathers, who doesn't know much about firearms outside of hunting. I'm no expert on Luger's by any estimation, so I have no idea what im looking at here. He needs money and want's to sell it, and since im the "gun guy" in the family, it was offered to me. It's not really my cup of tea for what he thinks it's worth, but my mind could probably be changed if it turned out to be a particularly interesting firearm. He's convinced it's got something to do with WW2, but the pearl grips and ridiculous barrel make me seriously doubt that. I don't have access to the pistol and have yet to see the thing in person, these pics my father took are all I have to go on, any ideas? Thanks!

January 7, 2014, 08:10 AM	#4
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	That Luger never left the factory in that condition, it is a fantasy gun and not a very well done one at that, Hans Solo would never carry something like that or even let the Wookie carry it. There's is no question that the overly long barrel is after market along with the Jay Scott grips and the fact that the gun has been polished and refinished. As stated, perhaps a nice shooting gun but I doubt even that, that barrel would throw off the balance. __________________ Ron James

January 7, 2014, 01:50 AM	#2
Quentin2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 1,996	I'm no expert but it's a mixed parts gun. And it's not a WWII model. The toggle is WWI (DWM) and has a different number than the takedown lever. I didn't see other numbers. It looks refinished and the old long barrel artillery models from WWI had different rear sights. So with that barrel and the other warts I doubt if it's worth much over any "shooter" Luger, which is under $1000. I wouldn't be interested for sure.

January 7, 2014, 06:16 AM	#3
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	You don't mention what he thinks it's worth (more than 400?) or what you might be interested in it for, i.e. collecting, shooting? Quenton is correct that it looks to be a re-finished parts gun. I'd be surprised if there were any proofs left on the receiver at all. Many WWI Lugers were used and carried during the Second World War, but I doubt that one (in that configuration) was. Just a few observations of note to me. Pic 1. The Jay Scott wood laminated imitation grips. Made during the 50's and 60's IIRC. Those are definitely not MOP grips. Pic 3. Hope you can post back on that barrel length. I kinda like it! I feel pretty safe in calling it an aftermarket even with the 'crappy cellphone' pictures. Never have seen a carbine barrel that did not have a ramp front sight. Luger barrels (with the exception of the carbines) had a tapered and integral increased diameter muzzle lug that held the dovetailed front sight. The gun you show looks to have a barrel band front sight instead. Pic 3 & 4. These are the ones that would keep me from getting too worked up over it. Both photos show quite a gap between the bolt and receiver/barrel face. It could be that the bolt is slightly retracted or just poor lighting. I'd sure look that over though. When I'm handed a gun like that one at a show, I simply look it over for a moment and politely say 'interesting, but I think I'll pass'. I've been wrong before, JT

January 7, 2014, 09:02 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	There is good news and bad news. Bad: The gun has been buffed and hot blued. You can only hope that the buffing did not affect the fit of operating parts. Then there are the glamorous Jay Scott plastic "pearl" grips with characteristic wood backing. Ick. Good: This may be a 1920 Commercial, stock except for the shiny shiny blue and fake pearls. Built out of WW I surplus guns and unfinished parts, they can be found in every imaginable and some unimaginable configurations. Barrels up to 20" long have been found. Many, but not all of the ludicrously long barrels have tangent sights like an Artillery. Some have ramp sights like a carbine, but not all. I am pretty sure it had nothing do to with WW II. I would show it over on the Luger board. After the experts got through laughing at the blue and pearl, they might have some solid information about the Pinnochio barrel.

January 7, 2014, 10:16 AM	#6
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. W/O a clear pic of the backstrap, showing the cuts for buttstock attachment, I would question that the pictured Parabellum started life as a Carbine (model). .

January 7, 2014, 10:50 AM	#7
FinalJenemba Member Join Date: April 18, 2013 Location: Port Richey, FL Posts: 25	Thanks guys, you've all pretty much verified my first instincts. To answer a couple questions, he's asking $1000 for it, im pretty sure he thinks its an important piece of history. Not sure I want to tell him the truth, he's had it for years apparently. And no, I wasn't really interested in it, if I found out it was an interesting history piece I could have changed my mind, but a refinished parts gun? Not so much.

January 7, 2014, 03:43 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	At one point Stoeger and Numrich offered Luger barrels of various lengths, for installation by the local friendly gunsmith. I wonder if that pistol works. The Luger is a recoil operated pistol, which means that the barrel has to move and that one looks long and heavy enough that its inertia could keep the gun from functioning. While it has value to the owner and a certain curio interest, it has zero collector value. IMHO, it has no practical value, even if it works. (Not the thing for IWB carry!) A lot of money has been spent on it in the past to create something that a previous owner wanted, but that does not translate to dollars today. Jim

January 7, 2014, 07:23 PM	#9
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. Yep - One man's treasure is another man's trash.......... .

January 7, 2014, 08:47 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The trouble is that it is not trash, and that is the problem with guns like that. It is not valueless, and might be worth good money to the right person. But generally guns fall into one of two categories - practical shooting guns and collecting guns. I guess there is, or should be, a third category, novelty guns, guns that exist only because at some time someone thought they were "cool". That gun is in the "cool" category, but only if a buyer has the same idea of "cool". At $300, someone might buy it and replace the barrel with something reasonable to make it a shooter. But at $1000, I think most potential buyers would pass. Jim

January 9, 2014, 03:20 PM	#11
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Jim K is right. That is someone's novelty item. The good news is that the barrel looks to be at least 16" long, which means you could shoot it with a shoulder stock and BATF can't do anything about it. Regarding ammo, the original ammo for the Luger carbines was significantly hotter than standard ammo to ensure proper operation of the recoil operated action. Due to this, an auxiliary recoil spring was included inside the wooden forearm. As far as selling it, let your father's friend try to sell it on his own. Perhaps then he will learn the realities of "the market." (However, you never know; There may be somone stupid enough to pay $1000.00 for it.)